Claymore Chapter 120

[Nixl]

Originally Posted by Gooral

@Nixl
I referred to Teresa here:


Add to that, that Teresa's death had actually some meaning and was a rather shocking twist. On the other hand Miria survived by using ridiculous move and Hysteria awakened anyway. What was the purpose of this scene really?

Sorry I missed that Gooral, you have a good point and I agree, but I do think there is a point to this.

The point, I would assume, is that Miria's fight with Hysteria is futile and they need Claire or Priscilla. The fact that Hysteria got back up indicates that these FOs are zombies in a real sense. They will not die like normal claymores and furthermore they are going to awake. This is a no-win situation for the Ghosts. It did start out like a true fight, but the way it ended I believe it was Yagi stating that Miria never had a chance to begin with against Hysteria or any FO.

In a way it feeds precisely to you statement that Hysteria had an advantage, but in an entirely different way though Gooral. The advantage is that Hysteria is undead. It does not matter what Miria does, she cannot defeat Hysteria if Hysteria is a zombie with no real vital point. The way Miria stabbed Hysteria may have been an asspull, but regardless there is nothing Miria can do to kill undead warriors. I think that is the overall point Gooral that even with a blatant Deus Ex Machina Miria cannot defeat Hysteria. They need Claire or Priscilla to solve the situation.

I think Cassandra's awakening and Hysteria showing that these FOs cannot be killed like Claymores adds momentum to the fact that the Ghosts, Miria, everyone needs to retreat immediately.

[Ulquihorror]

With Claymore taking sexy to a new level, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Hysteria got deep throated so hard

[yononaka]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

We have seen so many unbelivable things in Claymore that getting so worked up 'cause Miria was able to get on her knees holding a sword in her mouth and hitting Histy with a guard completely lowered seems quite pointless imo.
Do i really have to make a list of all the "impossible" things that in Claymore can happen normally to make a point?
What Miria did there is nothing impossible,given that context,not even close to the strangest thing that we have already seen before.

Possible doesn't equal plausible, nor make it a good idea. Yagi may want to fix this scene in the tankobon to make it more evident how Miria could have hidden the sword. Hysteria didn't suddenly go blind, and it would be quite a feat to grab a the handle of a sword that's parallel to your body with your teeth without making it obvious that you're up to something fishy. Miria getting up is only one of the issues here.

Also, the very fact of so many seemingly impossible things happening can over time cause an allergic reaction in some people.

[MalakTawus]

@Ryus

I am afraid you are wrong here and you've misread the bodies flow between those 2 pages. On the first Hysteria is stabbed while standing and on the next page both Hysteria and Miria are on there knees.

No,if you consider the prospective it's quite clear that Miria stabs Histy FROM BELOW, while Histy,even if she stands on her feet, doesn't stand straight but is curved ahead since she was trying to hit a warrior on the ground.
If you consider the sword's lenght,it makes perfect sense to describe the dynamic of the action like i did, only AFTER being stabbed Histy lose her feets and fall on her knees in front of Miria.

Yet Miria is at the same height level she was vs Hysteria before yet only now is on her knees. Simpliy put this could have only happened if Hysteria collasped forward and Miria followed her down to her knees to keep the sword stuck in her throat so Hysteria couldn't heal the wound until it was fatal.

Just no.This can be explained very clearly.
You are wrong 'cause you don't consider the prospective:
everything i said makes perfect sense if you consider that in page 287 Miria and Histy faces are NOT as close as in page 288.
In page 287 a smaller part of the sword has pierced Histy's neck,while in page 288 a greater part of the sword is involved since Histy has fallen on the sword.
Page 287 and 288 have a completely different prospective, you have to consider it.

[Newhope]

Miria losing her arm isn't really that hard to understand, Hysteria cut it off at the same time or spilt second after Miria run her though.

[Fermat]

Good point, Nixl. Point of interest, though... Will this "immortality" carry over when they awaken, because seriously, three immortal AO-level beings would be utterly frightening...

[Nixl]

@Fermat
Assuming I am not completely full of shit, I think Priscilla is the only prayer the Ghosts have.

Originally Posted by yononaka

If the DoD were AO level, shouldn't they have won the war long ago, especially since they were shown to be cooperative?

That is a good point yononaka, but consider that the DoDs could be doing experimenting of their own. What could be happening now is an arms race for bigger and stronger monsters on both sides. Furthermore, if it is a Cold War scenario it could very well lead to a M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction) for both sides and neither is willing to make a move unless they are confident they can win or they are forced to fight.

I guess my main point is that Yagi can do whatever he wants, but it could change the manga radically. The DoDs are completely open in regards to what Yagi wants to do.

edit: Just think the DoDs could be this,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgMgUehD1Tw

[rafael1932]

Originally Posted by Gooral

But seriously, Miria has become more lucky than Clare.

Yes I totally agree with this, lets not forget that miria got killed in the dream world and come back to life when she was inside the destroyer. The rule of if you die in here you die in the real world but that rules only happens after that. how lucky miria is, right ?

[yononaka]

Originally Posted by Nixl

Assuming I am not completely full of shit, I think Priscilla is the only prayer the Ghosts have.

Not at all, I'm sure they can still win on their own as long as they use their mouths well.

[Butagami]

Originally Posted by Nixl

"What training did Miria do to be that good with her mouth?"

Have you all really forgotten? Clare stated all warriors were trained to pass as a prostitute.... Maybe they all had to practice on the "ninja's" "lances"

[MalakTawus]

Originally Posted by yononaka

Possible doesn't equal plausible, nor make it a good idea. Yagi may want to fix this scene in the tankobon to make it more evident how Miria could have hidden the sword. Hysteria didn't suddenly go blind, and it would be quite a feat to grab a the handle of a sword that's parallel to your body with your teeth without making it obvious that you're up to something fishy. Miria getting up is only one of the issues here.

Also, the very fact of so many seemingly impossible things happening can over time cause an allergic reaction in some people.

Hiding a sword with her body is not even close to being something impossible,it's not that those swords are 2m long,you know?

Grabbing the handle of a sword with her mouth is an action that for Claymore's standard is incredibly easy,and hiding that action for a split second is even more easy if you consider Miria's hair.

No matter what you say,there are things that are WAY more unbelivable: warriors moving faster than human eye can see, Claire's QS, Helen capable of trasforming her arm in some sort of drill, fusion and defusion with the destroyer, Anastasia's ability,warriors capable of destroying walls and rock with their sword like it was nothing (do you think this is normal???),warriors being able to jump who knows how meters high,warriors that don't die istantly even when the suffer incredibly absurd wounds (sometimes they can even walk aroun for a bit,lol),Cassandra's anti-physics ability(lol,this yes that's something REALLY strange).......

....so sorry if when i see those reactions for what Miria just did i think that people are exaggerating.....and i'm especially suspicious when the complains start not only before a proper translation but even before the raw is out......

Is it true that Yagi could have done that scene in a better way?
Yes, i can agree with that.

Is it true that that scene is as absurd as some people say?
No,not at all, especially considering what we have seen in claymore till now.

[klare]

as expected, these 3 former #1s are being used as AB

what ever will happen later, Miria had defeated a former #1 and survived, her fighting style reminds me when Clare trying to escape from Ophelia

wonder how many will survive when there are 3 ABs around

[MalakTawus]

If those 3 monster have also gained Prissy's fast-heal ability.........i think the rebels should ascape as soon as possible now that Cassy and Roxy are busy.....but i doubt Histy will let Miria escape easily.
I wouldn't be surprised if the only way to kill those 3 is to hit their heads (the same is valid for Prissy probably).

[Fermat]

Malak, I can't speak for the rest of the group, but I think the point is that it's not impossible for Miria to do what she just did. We all know claymores are capable of doing unbelievable, physics-defying things as easily as taking a leak. What I'm saying is that Miria's counterattack required a series of actions that are more taxing to execute compared to simply bringing down a sword. Of course, there's that bit about Miria insulting Hysteria about her obsession with elegance that could've distorted Hysteria's focus...

[little_angel]

I don't know why everyone is so pissed off with this chapter. I liked to tell the truth. Yagi moved the plot forward fast enough so we wouldn't die from boredom! Look at Hysteria's and Miria's battle it started as cool and ended as boring so Yagi had to finish it so we find a new thing to look at and expect. Roxanne's past of when she was defeated I expect to see it in the next chapter as she awakened and this is the last thing for us to know about her. As for Miria's sword technique i don't think it was impossible she used her awakening mirage to get the sword and attacked Hysteria in a split of second. IMO this chapter is not bad at all but I think Yagi will have to work hard on Roxanne's awakened form since we know that Hysteria's awakened form will have something to do with speed.

[yononaka]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Hiding a sword with her body is not even close to being something impossible,it's not that those swords are 2m long,you know?

Yeah, and of course I said it was impossible, not just that it was poorly depicted because he went for psych! value...

Grabbing the handle of a sword with her mouth is an action that for Claymore's standard is incredibly easy,and hiding that action for a split second is even more easy if you consider Miria's hair.

Yeah, I'm sure her hair would totally obscure the fact that she's for some reason twisting her head sideways at a 90 degree angle...

No matter what you say

Well, OK then...

,there are things that are WAY more unbelivable: warriors moving faster than human eye can see, Claire's QS, Helen capable of trasforming her arm in some sort of drill, fusion and defusion with the destroyer, Anastasia's ability,warriors capable of destroying walls and rock with their sword like it was nothing (do you think this is normal???),warriors being able to jump who knows how meters high,warriors that don't die istantly even when the suffer incredibly absurd wounds (sometimes they can even walk aroun for a bit,lol),Cassandra's anti-physics ability(lol,this yes that's something REALLY strange).......

The point is not that unusual things have happened, it's that asspulling them for crucial plot twists isn't a great way to write.

....so sorry if when i see those reactions for what Miria just did i think that people are exaggerating.....and i'm especially suspicious when the complains start not only before a proper translation but even before the raw is out......

The spoilers were detailed enough and of course people are going to complain when they hear of someone with no arms winning by a silly mouth trick...

Is it true that Yagi could have done that scene in a better way?
Yes, i can agree with that.

Then what are we even talking about here?

Is it true that that scene is as absurd as some people say?
No,not at all, especially considering what we have seen in claymore till now.

Actually it is as absurd as some people say, and the fact that they've previously accepted some other absurd things in no way precludes them from complaining about this one.

In any case, I'm not going to argue about this any longer, because there's no point in a debate that basically revolves around whether excuses can be found for everything. We all know that as fans we can always find excuses for the author if we so choose. That does not invalidate the opinion of those who don't readily accept these excuses for a particular case.

All else aside. we certainly have to give it up for Yagi for inspiring the most sexual innuendo filled thread yet. There are oral sex or prostitute references in like almost half the posts.

[MalakTawus]

IMO this chapter is not bad at all but I think Yagi will have to work hard on Roxanne's awakened form since we know that Hysteria's awakened form will have something to do with speed.

---1 month later---

*** Look at ch.121's raw***

***Shut off the Pc,go in the kitchen and drink a glass of water***

***Look in the air for about 5 minutes***

Clayore's fan: "A GIANT TURTLE!!!????? Histy's awakened form is a giant turtle???"
"Are you serious, Yagi? Are you serious!?"

***Danm Yagi,he's doing it on purpose.I'm sure of it!***
***He'll drive me crazy.......***

[manmmlala]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Hiding a sword with her body is not even close to being something impossible,it's not that those swords are 2m long,you know?

Grabbing the handle of a sword with her mouth is an action that for Claymore's standard is incredibly easy,and hiding that action for a split second is even more easy if you consider Miria's hair.

No matter what you say,there are things that are WAY more unbelivable: warriors moving faster than human eye can see, Claire's QS, Helen capable of trasforming her arm in some sort of drill, fusion and defusion with the destroyer, Anastasia's ability,warriors capable of destroying walls and rock with their sword like it was nothing (do you think this is normal???),warriors being able to jump who knows how meters high,warriors that don't die istantly even when the suffer incredibly absurd wounds (sometimes they can even walk aroun for a bit,lol),Cassandra's anti-physics ability(lol,this yes that's something REALLY strange).......

....so sorry if when i see those reactions for what Miria just did i think that people are exaggerating.....and i'm especially suspicious when the complains start not only before a proper translation but even before the raw is out......

Is it true that Yagi could have done that scene in a better way?
Yes, i can agree with that.

Is it true that that scene is as absurd as some people say?
No,not at all, especially considering what we have seen in claymore till now.

i agree, discussions are gd, but when ppl being way too picky on some of the warriors' trivial body movements and abilities and r trying to interpret and criticize their feasibility in human terms, it doesn't make much sense and is turning off - just relax and enjoy the story as a whole and try to be appreciative rather than focusing on some really minor flaws - dun dig into those "flaws" with human standards or too many physical rules and theories, we all know too well that these do not apply to the warriors' bodies n abilities

i mean - i m with you - there are so many impossible things happening in this manga, wt's so unbelievable with miria holdng a sword with her teeth and pierced an unprepared hysteria (who thought miria wouldn't be able to do a thing) with her already lightning fast speed? how hard could it be for miria to bounce back even without arms? even if miria wasn't hiding the sword, it's just a sword nearby she suddenly picked up and pierced through a surprised hysteria, y not? if u keep arguing on that matter and that really bothers u, irene's QS should have already angered you so much in the early chapters, y become so picky so suddenly?

some readers can be so harsh, even if an artist does 10 great things and then makes 1 flaw/mistake, they immediately transform into an authoritative judge and complain "it sucks, it disappoints me, the artist is bad, it doesn't make sense, it is crap, i would give it a failed score, i rate it 1/D-"
so harsh.
once in a while just ignore wt u think is bad, dun read the comic too critically, express wt u think could be improved but dun dig it too deeply n repeat n repeat again while using v stern language - wt u think as unreasonable/wrong might just be that u ve misinterpreted the author's design/intention

[little_angel]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

---1 month later---

*** Look at ch.121's raw***

***Shut off the Pc,go in the kitchen and drink a glass of water***

***Look in the air for about 5 minutes***

Clayore's fan: "A GIANT TURTLE!!!????? Histy's awakened form is a giant turtle???"
"Are you serious, Yagi? Are you serious!?"

***Danm Yagi,he's doing it on purpose.I'm sure of it!***
***He'll drive me crazy.......***

Well to tell the truth what I thought about how can Yagi mess Roxanne's awakened form to make her a pig or a donkey that way everyone will say come on she laughed at Cassandra and now this .. but anyway I think Hysteria's awakened form will be something fast like a cheetah which is famous to be the fastest on land 120km/h and accelerates from 0 to over 100 km/h in three seconds or a gazelle since they are very beautiful animals and fast too or just a huge creature incredibly fast.

[MalakTawus]

Yeah, and of course I said it was impossible, not just that it was poorly depicted because he went for psych! value...

Quoting your own words you said:

Also, the very fact of so many seemingly impossible things happening.....

I simply pointed out that that action wasn't near close to be impossible.
I know you didn't say that those actions were impossible (infact i never accused you of that) butyou implied that they seemed impossible.
Read better the next time,i simply said that that action wasn't even close to being impossible.

Yeah, I'm sure her hair would totally obscure the fact that she's for some reason twisting her head sideways at a 90 degree angle...

The angle is not necessarily 90 grades.
It can very well be lower,like 70 grades, and it's quite easy to grab the sword from that position in an instant.
It doesn't matter if Miria did something a bit strange,we understand that it's strange since we know what happens next, but it's quite clear that Histy would have NEVER imagined an attack like that.
To be effective against Histy it's obvious that the whole action must have been executed in an instant so it doesn't mater if in that instant Miria did some "suspicious" movement,the key point is that Histy couldn't imagine to be attacked at all,so her brain wasn't able to understand what was going on till it was too late.
This is something that is true even in the real world (common knowledge in all sports and martial arts), the body doesn't react if the brain is unable to accept the reality that is happening.
That's exactly what happened: even if Histy saw surely something it doesn't matter since her brain obviously wasn't fast enough to accept the situation that was presenting in front of her eyes.

Well, OK then...

It's just an expression.

The point is not that unusual things have happened, it's that asspulling them for crucial plot twists isn't a great way to write.

I don't consider what Miria did so out of line, surely not enough to use the expression "asspulling".

The spoilers were detailed enough and of course people are going to complain when they hear of someone with no arms winning by a silly mouth trick...

Spoilers are just spoilers.
So no,imo it's not normal at all to start complaining about Yagi as much as i have read this month BEFORE the raw is even come out.
It's not normal at all.

In any case, I'm not going to argue about this any longer, because there's no point in a debate that basically revolves around whether excuses can be found for everything. We all know that as fans we can always find excuses for the author if we so choose. That does not invalidate the opinion of those who don't readily accept these excuses for a particular case.

If you replace "excuses" with "complaints" you have my answer,lol.