2009-12-01, 14:07 | Link #3801 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
|
Quote:
For instance, if the "main" culprit is a person Battler frequently hangs out with, Battler would be inclined not to suspect them. By misleading him with red, he comes to understand that truth can be manipulated. Maybe that leads him to realize that someone can be a mastermind for the killings while remaining safely under Battler's supervision. Or whatever. |
|
2009-12-01, 15:37 | Link #3802 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
|
I think the Beatrice is just Battler's embodiment of the mystery surrounding his death as he lay dieing. The chapters are the stages of grief. This would explain the increase in characters as well with the following reasons:
Spoiler for theory + ep6 guess:
So, that's my Meta-examination, doesn't solve a lick of the mystery, but it would explain the concept of Meta-Battler other than a tool to narrate. As far as the mystery goes, if Battler can solve it, then he can finally die, which would mean that Ange's bad future would come true. Spoiler for ep 6 char:
Quote:
Ep2 was because Battler was too accepting of his parents Ep3 was because Battler was trying too hard to solve the mystery Ep4 was because Battler let the delusion repeat, (similar to Ep1) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As far as using this method to solve the mysteries goes, I think the murderer will be whoever fits the bill for Battler's state of mind. So if Nanjo really was a killer in EP3, or any other one really, it would be fine. It would work in EP3 because Battler was focused intensely on the mystery aspect, which means the pieces could make more advanced moves. It would work in EP1 because all normal mystery traits apply to that episode. It would work in EP2 because he was not thinking in a way conductive to solving mysteries, as such, Beatrice could have moved him as she wished. It would also work in Ep4 because Battler was again, not focused on the mystery. In other words, the murder can only be someone who would mesh with the conditions of Battlers mind, in the case of who could not be the murderer, Kannon should almost never the the murder, and if he is, it is not on purpose. In EP1 Kannon stood up to Beatrice, so in Battler's eyes, he should always be fighting the culprit, although Beatrice may take liberty to twist this and show Kannon fighting the Stakes (delusions and ideas Kannon is trying to reign in so that he can stop the culprit) or show him killing people, as in Ep2, where Nanjo and Kumasawa were killed by "him". This may be because Kannon thought Nanjo was actually the murderer, or affiliated with him/her and in reality had taken Kumasawa as a hostage. Being rash, he decided to charge, which resulted in Nanjo killing Kumasawa by Kanon's actions and Nanjo's death. Beatrice had to declare him dead in red this Arc, which means it can be twisted to mean "Yes, Kannon died, he is no longer the same person after having killed Kumasawa". So Yeah... |
|
2009-12-01, 15:51 | Link #3803 | |
Kupo
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sleeping
Age: 32
|
Quote:
Remember that they didn't look out the window in EP2 (the most obvious place to throw a body) - all we know is that it was locked, which means nothing to a culprit when Jessica's key is sitting right there on the nightstand.
__________________
|
|
2009-12-01, 17:35 | Link #3804 | |
Purupurupiko-Man
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: My beloved hometown, the mackerel river running through it
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-12-01, 18:01 | Link #3805 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-12-01, 18:03 | Link #3806 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
|
Quote:
That reminds me, where was the boiler room key in Episode 1? Was it ever accounted for? EDIT: All of the keys to the closed room chain in Episode 3 were locked up inside the closed room chain. A thing is not "locked up" inside a room unless all of the room's entrances are locked. |
|
2009-12-01, 19:31 | Link #3807 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
Bu the question still remains, how in the world the boiler room was locked if there is no lock on the door that leads to the internal courtyard? How could Ryukishi have missed to explain this particular?
__________________
|
2009-12-02, 02:10 | Link #3812 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
this kinda defies the logic of the explanation that was given
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-12-02, 02:21 | Link #3814 | ||
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2009-12-02, 03:32 | Link #3815 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
|
The inner courtyard was used mainly by the servants for them to go through the boiler room, the kitchen and get around the mansion quickly. Other people rarely used it.
It was evident sine in EP1 when the group of people got into the boiler room, Natsuhi asked Genji where the backdoor lead to. So most likely even though Krauss's family has been livnig here for these years, they never actually get into the boiler room and knew about the backdoor at all. And for the other adults, surely they couldn't know it if they were not on the island often. Before Kanon rushed into the boiler room, it was narrated that he needed to rush since he knew the culprit was still inside the boiler room and he had to quick so the culprit could not escape..... through the backdoor. The backdoor to the courtyard may have a lock, but I doubt any servants would lock it out of convenicence. Jessica was already 18 years old and the only children at that time were Maria and Ange, who would be looked after by the cousins and had little chance to venture into inner courtyard and boiler room. However, the chain-closed-rooms mystery may not be solved so easily as anyone with a good memory could recall the existence of such a backdoor. So the truth may be some windows of the room were not locked. And consider only the parlor and the chapel were in the ground floor while having numerous windows. It could be the case one of the windows from one of the place was unlocked. If the boiler room's backdoor was the key to answer this mystery, it could be the case that these chain-room was not closed rooms to the adults on the gameboard, but mystery to Battler still. Last edited by ijriims; 2009-12-02 at 04:10. |
2009-12-02, 03:45 | Link #3816 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
Quote:
Even in this case my point still remain. Since the backdoor of the boiler room is at the very least a 50% plausible possibile way to explain the chain closed room, it can't be that Ryukishi simply forgot to mention it.
__________________
|
|
2009-12-02, 03:48 | Link #3817 |
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
|
It also escapes the "hidden tunnel" criterion easily, because you know about its existence. If anything, it's only fair game because it's hidden in plain sight, and whether or not it's the solution to the chained rooms, I'm willing to bet it's pretty significant stuff.
|
2009-12-02, 06:39 | Link #3818 | |
The Death!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Purgatorio
|
Quote:
Of course you can say that Genji, Kumasawa and the other servents lied about Kinzo being alive. This is a circular argument and will not get you anywhere you just have to be critical, to outright claim a lie to every situation isn't something productive. We know the servants lied. This is an advantage not a disadvantage. Like so..... The Umbrella Problem: Shannon, Kumasawa, and Kanon all claimed to be working at the bedrooms cleaning them, they had Natsuhi there to pass the buck off them when the dinner began. All three groups of people passed the buck when it was time to own up to the giver of the umbrella. The kids were together Battler was there to confirm this. The adults had been together as well, Natsuhi is innocent so we can trust her when it comes to the group as a whole. However she is naive as well. The servants are the only ones that can realistically give Maria the umbrella. Natsuhi had unknowingly gave the perfect alibi to the servants. Shannon or Kumasawa gave Maria the umbrella under the guise of cleaning the rooms. I looked at the dinner as a whole and seen the pattern, The kids gave the perfect alibi, the adults have the perfect alibi and the servants have the perfect alibi. This went in a circle they said they didn't do it and thought someone else did it. This is a circular argument, if you can't see the problem with the argument as a whole you have to look at each proposition carefully. That is how you spot a fallacy. The Second Twilight I believe I already had a theory for this but it went unnoticed. I'll just state it in blue. The killer gained access to the room, by means of gaining Eva's trust while Hideyoshi was in the shower. After killing both Eva and Hideyohi, the killer placed the chain on the lock again and waited, after Genji and Kanon confirmed the door's chain was set they left. This confirmed the lock's authenticity at the time. Thereby unknowingly setting up the closed room. Kanon never checked the lock's strength after returning with Kumasawa, after cutting the chain there was now no chance of proving the chain was compromised. The killer left the room after placing both bodies in their positions. After setting the chain up by means of tape or magnet the killer painted the door and left. Finally: I said this before but there is a hidden move a method X, some type of move that is seen in plain view but yet still has an ulterior motive. You have to look at the propositions. I call these moves Method X, Battler's tricks he was looking for. For the umbrella it was Natsuhi's order to clean the room. For the second twilight it was the confirmation by Genji and Kanon the chain was set. This is the prime example of Method X given by Battler. You can trust the truth of the proposition, and still find an ulterior motive. For the chapel it was the letter given to Maria. If you can spot any inaccuracies then tell me. After all this is about sharing and commentary.
__________________
|
|
2009-12-02, 07:41 | Link #3820 |
The Death!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Purgatorio
|
That's why I don't think it's tape I think it's something else I just used tape as an example. Magnet, glue/adhesive take your pick all are easy methods and don't require alot of explaining. It doesn't have to hold the door just look natural hanging from the wall/door and not stand out. There wasn't any indication of the inspection of the chain's status after the discovery, Natsuhi locked the door afterwards.
__________________
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|