Nanoha Manga Discussion

[Keroko]

*quickly hides own dripping knife* Shouta Yuuno already comes pretty darn close though.

[Iromaru]

Originally Posted by Kyral

But back then Chrono was what, about 12 years old? Just one year older then Erio was when he joined the cast.

Wasn't he 14/15y old?

And I don't really mean the weight of this gunblade, but rather it's shape. Signum's sword is pretty much a gunblade too, but it's grip is sword shaped. This guy's weapon is a sword with revolver grip, it must be a nightmare to fight with this thing.

And Fate's scythe is a completely different matter. Scythe isn't very suitable in combat because of the blades weight and very bad aerodynamics. This problem is solved when blade is made from energy. Fate's weapon is pretty much a staff with weightless magic blade.

But yeah RL physics don't really apply in manga :P

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Keroko

*quickly hides own dripping knife* Shouta Yuuno already comes pretty darn close though.

QFT. The ponytail in StrikerS didn't help either.

Originally Posted by Iromaru

Wasn't he 14/15y old?

I think you're thinking of Amy.

Originally Posted by Iromaru

And I don't really mean the weight of this gunblade, but rather it's shape. Signum's sword is pretty much a gunblade too, but it's grip is sword shaped. This guy's weapon is a sword with revolver grip, it must be a nightmare to fight with this thing.

And Fate's scythe is a completely different matter. Scythe isn't very suitable in combat because of the blades weight and very bad aerodynamics. This problem is solved when blade is made from energy. Fate's weapon is pretty much a staff with weightless magic blade.

But yeah RL physics don't really apply in manga :P

...I was gonna argue, but your last point's my best shot... so the defense rests...?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Iromaru

Wasn't he 14/15y old?

And I don't really mean the weight of this gunblade, but rather it's shape. Signum's sword is pretty much a gunblade too, but it's grip is sword shaped. This guy's weapon is a sword with revolver grip, it must be a nightmare to fight with this thing.

And Fate's scythe is a completely different matter. Scythe isn't very suitable in combat because of the blades weight and very bad aerodynamics. This problem is solved when blade is made from energy. Fate's weapon is pretty much a staff with weightless magic blade.

But yeah RL physics don't really apply in manga :P

Actually, our elders from all over the world designed unusual weapons, combining close-combat weapons with firearms, like a shortsword with a flintlock pistol, or a pistol with a fork (for eating, so don't eat dinner while that thing is loaded), or mace + rifle. So our ancestors were ahead of times in term of crack.

http://www.rolly-armes.com/pistolets-revolvers.htm

The first weapon is a sword combined with a wheel lock.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Iromaru

Wasn't he 14/15y old?

Yes he was.

And I don't really mean the weight of this gunblade, but rather it's shape. Signum's sword is pretty much a gunblade too, but it's grip is sword shaped. This guy's weapon is a sword with revolver grip, it must be a nightmare to fight with this thing.

Eerh no. Laevateinn, for all intents and purposes is a pure Falchion, just with a cartridge system installed. However, it's still used and wielded as a sword, being that it's actually SHAPED like one.

And actually, the angle of a revolver grip in relation to the blade (perpendicular instead of axial) makes the Gunsword grasping angle more comfortable than a sword (given the ergonomics of the hand), and theoretically allows for better power during a swing. The closest we have to the gripping angle represented by a gunsword are katars for example. The only reason we don't make swords with such a grip angle is because of engineering limitations, and also because it's kinda hard to draw quickly due to its angle, Not to mention the reduction in flexibility and technique. Like all weapons, certain configurations have advantages and disadvantages.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Iromaru

And I don't really mean the weight of this gunblade, but rather it's shape. Signum's sword is pretty much a gunblade too, but it's grip is sword shaped. This guy's weapon is a sword with revolver grip, it must be a nightmare to fight with this thing.

And Fate's scythe is a completely different matter. Scythe isn't very suitable in combat because of the blades weight and very bad aerodynamics. This problem is solved when blade is made from energy. Fate's weapon is pretty much a staff with weightless magic blade.

But yeah RL physics don't really apply in manga :P

*puts on weapon-jocky glasses*

Actually, concerning a gunblade, it's doable. You'll notice existing weapons like the khukri have similar shapes, and those are wielded even today. The design of the gunblade would by no means make it easy, and I would choose a khukri over a gunblade in a heartbeat, but those limitations are more because the handgrip is a revolver style, which forces your trigger finger in a vulnerable position. Also destabilizes your grip on the whole darned thing. Place your trigger finger on a more appropriate spot, though, and it becomes a hellalot more wieldable.

Now Fate's scythe, on the other hand, is more problematic. Weight and aerodynamics are only a small part of the problem. Simply the design of the blade is already far from efficient as a melee weapon. It's easy to block it, but not easy to cut people with. A scythe is a tool for farming, not fighting, and there is a reason war scythes are shaped like glaives rather then farming scythes.

But this is manga, so we'll ignore physics and realistic viability of weaponry. Otherwise we'd be complaining about a lot of the devices we see.

[Kyral]

Originally Posted by Iromaru

Wasn't he 14/15y old?

Err... I failed in math again... >>

[Iromaru]

The closest we have to the gripping angle represented by a gunsword are katars for example.

Now that you mention it... I forgot about katars. Since his weapon has a short blade it's quite plausible

[Outlaender]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Actually, our elders from all over the world designed unusual weapons, combining close-combat weapons with firearms, like a shortsword with a flintlock pistol, or a pistol with a fork (for eating, so don't eat dinner while that thing is loaded), or mace + rifle. So our ancestors were ahead of times in term of crack.

http://www.rolly-armes.com/pistolets-revolvers.htm

The first weapon is a sword combined with a wheel lock.

I remember seeing a fork/knife/gun set like that in a museum. The funny thing is,
when held like a knife and fork, the barrels point at the _user_. Gotta watch those itchy trigger fingers at dinner time.

[spawnofthejudge]

I apparently went off the deep end on Chrono's age (I thought he was 12, and Amy was 14 during A's). Where did I get that idea?

[Nina.Wolken]

Originally Posted by AtomicoX

Wow, one image and it's already disaster. As usual, the normal horsebeating mixed with that. Its getting boring people.
*jumps over the infinity arguments*

Excuse us for not taking part in your enthousiam and to be bold enough to state it orz.

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

...though I'm biased against gunblades. Dammit FF8, why did you suck?

I usually think that's a pretty cool weapon. But this one looks quite cheap. I mean... what are those bands between the blade and the top part of the weapon? Tape?
Plus it doesn't looks like a magical weapon ... but maybe it's not "activated" yet.

[Evangelion Xgouki]

*peers*
Well looks like the storm has passed for now...

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

And I wanted him to "join the battle", if you will (...whatever happened to Hayate's Lesbian Army? )

Well with an army of such nature they would need some appropriate 'maids'...

*cough*

Originally Posted by Kyral

Err... I failed in math again... >>

*pats*

[Nagumo]

Clearly this is a new shiny weapon to use whenever there's a shitstorm brewing.

Mention traps and reverse-traps, SUDDENLY!!!
Fandom unites! (well except for that one guy)

[Estavali]

Spoiler for Read if you have too much time to waste:

People here must a lot more bored then I imagined. Just one image, with no conversation included whatsoever, and all these groundless accusations flying around like rotten eggs and empty bottles at the football team pwning the one you're supporting?

*The anti-Man U crowd roars.*

No, I'm not talking about you lot here......

Seriously, folks, let's be like the good patient fans we're supposed to be and wait for the whole chapter to actually come before us (hopefully as a clear, accurate and unbiased scanlation), not just mere crumbs of the loaf.

Imho, trying to make out details from just that image gives me a headache, especially if we give it a really thorough going-over. Two guys and two girls, and the guys don't look like the same person. But is that really true? We have seen how Hayate's hair and eye color changes in Unison. Maybe it's the same for Toma too? If not, then which is Toma and who the heck is the other guy and what's his business? And while we are at that, are the girls the same person? The similar hairstyle suggests that they are, but what if they are identical twins? In fact, to be honest, the supposed damsel-in-distress looks like an over-sized Rein Zwei to me, and I would think that my wish for an adult Rein II has finally been granted canonically had I not remember that the real thing has appeared in a previous scan (well, she seems taller than Vita there, though once again we can't be sure without substantial proof, which a single image is not. Btw that suggests to me that Rein might actually be growing like a real human, but once again, like everything else written so far, this is speculation). Ahhh, but I'm rambling again.

Anyway, do we know what's the relationship between these two/three/four people? No, isn't it? We only have two names and a really anal debater or simply someone who can think outside the box can easily point out that unless the characters are addressed to with those names, it remains to be seen whether those names really belong to them or not. For example, if we have a similar image of Lelouch and Suzaku, and some smart fellow swipes their names around and then shows that tampered image to someone who absolutely has no idea what Code Geass is and who's who in that series, inform him/her that the guy in black is Suzaku and vice versa and the hapless guy/gal will believe his/her informant without much doubt. Logic will argue otherwise, but logic without proof doesn't hold well in a court of law.

By the way.... are we already proclaiming judgement on something we don't really know? It's like sending a person to the gallows before he gets a chance to even have a fair and open trial, isn't it?

Hmmm..... Well, whatever. Back to guessing the relationship between the two/three/four people, what if the girl(s) is(are) not as distressed as she(they) appear(s)? She could be one of those smart ladies who have a PhD in human (especially human male) psychology and may simply be using a physically more able but simpler chap, for good or for ill. Then again it could also be that the two has an intricate relationship that requires the guy to depend on the gal just as much if not more. Maybe, if we consider a rather amusing scenario, the chap will die or start dying in a very painful way once she's more than 15 metres away from him. A more possible scenario, if we consider Guy Left = Guy Right: Mode Zwei, would be that the chap and the lady have a contract that allows him to shift into the supposed Mode Zwei. Or it could be possible that the girl is a living Lost Logia and the guy is a member of a clan charged with the duty of watching over her powers and is in fact the seal that keeps her at bay. Hmm, an interesting idea. In fact, if we expand on this, it's possible that being a seal has killed many in that clan, perhaps including a close, preferably female, family member of the chap before the task is thrown onto his feet (like how Vercingetorix throwing his arms on Julius Caesar's feet in the Asterix comics, ouch...) and this has lead to troubled feelings between the two....

... And so on. There's more crack from where that came actually, but lethargy strikes again and that Evil of evils, that unstoppable force known as LAZINESS demands that I stop here and so shall I.

Are my thoughts far fetched? Yes.

An idiot's fantasies? Yes.

Too much thought invested into just one, ONE MISERABLE IMAGE, before actually seeing the actual, complete chapter?

Why, yes of course.


Imho, there are better things to do than to waste time arguing over the unsupported speculations of a picture with very little meaningful words. Like what I suggest, be good and wait like dogs for the master's morsels.


Anyway, I'm not really impressed with the gunblade. Not for the fact that it IS a gunblade, but more for the impression that it looks like some lazy bugger stapled the blade onto the gun (those.... black lines connecting the barrel and blade, what are they?) and then proceed to call the stapled product a gunblade. Can't Tsuzuki come up with something more.... grand? Ah, but I'm jumping to conclusions here again.

Btw, I like the trap-and-reverse-trap idea. VERY MUCH. Lord, that should be fun

[Iromaru]

Originally Posted by Keroko

*puts on weapon-jocky glasses*

Actually, concerning a gunblade, it's doable. You'll notice existing weapons like the khukri have similar shapes, and those are wielded even today. The design of the gunblade would by no means make it easy, and I would choose a khukri over a gunblade in a heartbeat, but those limitations are more because the handgrip is a revolver style, which forces your trigger finger in a vulnerable position. Also destabilizes your grip on the whole darned thing. Place your trigger finger on a more appropriate spot, though, and it becomes a hellalot more wieldable.

What I'm wondering is: why is he the only cartridge system user that needs a trigger... Maybe he's just a random cosplayer they meet while on leave :P

Now Fate's scythe, on the other hand, is more problematic. Weight and aerodynamics are only a small part of the problem. Simply the design of the blade is already far from efficient as a melee weapon. It's easy to block it, but not easy to cut people with. A scythe is a tool for farming, not fighting, and there is a reason war scythes are shaped like glaives rather then farming scythes.

Well imagine Fate's weapon as a battle staff or... well bardiche (:P) that just happens to be able to produce bonus energy blades. It's blade works more like a double sided axe with slimmer blade, and can be launched too. It has a very long reach and work as well as staff in defence. It's not a bad design at all

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Estavali

Anyway, I'm not really impressed with the gunblade. Not for the fact that it IS a gunblade, but more for the impression that it looks like some lazy bugger stapled the blade onto the gun (those.... black lines connecting the barrel and blade, what are they?) and then proceed to call the stapled product a gunblade. Can't Tsuzuki come up with something more.... grand? Ah, but I'm jumping to conclusions here again.

Something like Sol Badguy's zipposword or Gilgamesh's pillardrill sword?

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Iromaru

What I'm wondering is: why is he the only cartridge system user that needs a trigger... Maybe he's just a random cosplayer they meet while on leave :P

Teana and Vice forgotten so soon?

The trigger is mostly for the looks. I mean, can you imagine a gun without a trigger? That just loses some of its cool.

Originally Posted by Iromaru

Well imagine Fate's weapon as a battle staff or... well bardiche (:P) that just happens to be able to produce bonus energy blades. It's blade works more like a double sided axe with slimmer blade, and can be launched too. It has a very long reach and work as well as staff in defence. It's not a bad design at all

*shakes head* No, tacking on an energy doesn't really work. I'm not arguing the added bonus of being able to shoot, but to say the blade works like a double-bladed axe... no, that doesn't really fly. An axe is a power dependant weapon, made for bashing. A weightless scythe blade fulfills neither of these.

Anyway, realistically speaking it's not a viable weapon, but this isn't realism. Whatever she uses, Fate makes a scythe work. I may not like the girl all that much, but she sure looks awesome making a scythe work. Go Fate, go!

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Something like Sol Badguy's zipposword or Gilgamesh's pillardrill sword?

Hmmm, those look good =3. Or Cloud's First Ken/Tsurugi. Now, THAT is a sword I like very much.

But alas I'm not Tsuzuki nor Higa, and thus my hopes are doomed to die .

[Iromaru]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Teana and Vice forgotten so soon?

The trigger is mostly for the looks. I mean, can you imagine a gun without a trigger? That just loses some of its cool.

I didn't mention them since their devices have barrels so trigger is plausible. But yeah I forgot about the existence of Vice :P Thx for reminding me of him And true gun without a trigger don't look so good.

Originally Posted by Keroko

*shakes head* No, tacking on an energy doesn't really work. I'm not arguing the added bonus of being able to shoot, but to say the blade works like a double-bladed axe... no, that doesn't really fly. An axe is a power dependant weapon, made for bashing. A weightless scythe blade fulfills neither of these.

Well I just have different opinion, but it's not like mine have to be right I think this design is very good.

[MeisterBabylon]

Trap/reverse trap is about the only trope Nanoha has not done.

Or is it even a trope?