Fate/stay night manga discussion

[sharingan0619]

well danny, if u really wanna know

[mlai]

@ Dan:

Rin explicitly told Shirou to start being more careful in daily life, because now there are ppl and spirits out there who are highly motivated to assassinate him. She puts a lot of effort into helping him out in various ways, and this is coming from a girl who is never motivated by mundane niceties.

After all that, she finds him wandering around alone after school. Just asking to be killed by something and not even realizing it.

If she really wanted to kill him, she could have just called Archer out. Wounded or not, Archer could have killed Shirou in 2 seconds.

I don't hate Shirou. But I know the feeling of being completely exasperated by someone who is otherwise dear to you.

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by mlai

@ Dan:

Rin explicitly told Shirou to start being more careful in daily life, because now there are ppl and spirits out there who are highly motivated to assassinate him. She puts a lot of effort into helping him out in various ways, and this is coming from a girl who is never motivated by mundane niceties.

After all that, she finds him wandering around alone after school. Just asking to be killed by something and not even realizing it.

If she really wanted to kill him, she could have just called Archer out. Wounded or not, Archer could have killed Shirou in 2 seconds.

I don't hate Shirou. But I know the feeling of being completely exasperated by someone who is otherwise dear to you.

@dan

yeah, mlai is right, that's why shirou is kinda dumb and clueless in the beginning of the series, but as the series progreeses, he becomes more mature and knows more, this shirou that dumass right now is only temporary, i think he is actually pretty cool with his ideals and actions.

[X_Danny_X]

excellent, english is so much easier to read than Japanese

hehehe mlai, when you said this "Love and the desire to kill are not mutually exclusive emotions." it was like rin talking, i thought you had a crush on shirou

heck man, Shirou does become the strongest master! so at least that is good about him that he made such improvement like that and destroye the holi grail.

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

excellent, english is so much easier to read than Japanese

hehehe mlai, when you said this "Love and the desire to kill are not mutually exclusive emotions." it was like rin talking, i thought you had a crush on shirou

heck man, Shirou does become the strongest master! so at least that is good about him that he made such improvement like that and destroye the holi grail.

that is precisely why i really want to see a sequel to this fantastic series, shirou and saber are just too cool. I don't believe that a sequel will ruin the series at all

[X_Danny_X]

there already is, Hollow/Axteria or however you spell it. Everybody is there though none of the characters from the old series take a major role in the game, it is almost like a side story.

im just waiting for an american version of the game and manga to come out.

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

there already is, Hollow/Axteria or however you spell it. Everybody is there though none of the characters from the old series take a major role in the game, it is almost like a side story.

im just waiting for an american version of the game and manga to come out.

you can wait all u want, but hallow ataraxia will probably never come out in english, that's just the truth that ive gotten from game editors that i rote to. Also, ataraxia is not really part of the main plot, doesn't explain anything, and plus its prolly not gonna get animated either, that's wat ive heard...care to differ?

[Jamezterr]

Yeah, a 2nd series would definatly not ruin it. Its just too good of a story. Some endings could be different though.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Jamezterr

Yeah, a 2nd series would definatly not ruin it. Its just too good of a story. Some endings could be different though.

They could contne on with the Heavenly Feel ending. The one ending with Sakura living in Shirou house all along waiting for Shirou to come back. That was the best ending.

[Jamezterr]

An ending with Saber staying with Shirou is the best ending, IMHO. ^^

[X_Danny_X]

Originally Posted by sharingan0619

you can wait all u want, but hallow ataraxia will probably never come out in english, that's just the truth that ive gotten from game editors that i rote to. Also, ataraxia is not really part of the main plot, doesn't explain anything, and plus its prolly not gonna get animated either, that's wat ive heard...care to differ?

hell yeah, behold the true ending of Fate/Stay Night. the canon story

http://www.anime-anime.com/lore/article.php?id=139

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

hell yeah, behold the true ending of Fate/Stay Night. the canon story

http://www.anime-anime.com/lore/article.php?id=139

this is kinda gay...in japanese?? then how the hell am i gonna play it? i don't read japanese!! any news of patch?

[X_Danny_X]

its an action type game, the guys are talking about it in the game thread, here are the commands for to play the game

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=273

archer in the game is a badass, he is so difficult to defeat.

also about the translation, yes i will take your challenge, mirror moon is translating the fate/stay saber route.

http://mirrormoon.org/fate_stay_night


speaking about archer, how does he compare to other servents when it comes to defeating them? his stats are so weak and low. however since he is able to copy and image pratically anything and gain the knowledge and also having more tricks up his sleave, i think he can defeat anybody with the exception of Gilgalmesh since from reading about him he should defeat everyone, even Berserker.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

its an action type game, the guys are talking about it in the game thread, here are the commands for to play the game

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=273

archer in the game is a badass, he is so difficult to defeat.

also about the translation, yes i will take your challenge, mirror moon is translating the fate/stay saber route.

http://mirrormoon.org/fate_stay_night


speaking about archer, how does he compare to other servents when it comes to defeating them? his stats are so weak and low. however since he is able to copy and image pratically anything and gain the knowledge and also having more tricks up his sleave, i think he can defeat anybody with the exception of Gilgalmesh since from reading about him he should defeat everyone, even Berserker.

The only one Archer can never defeat is Berserker, unfortunately. If you want to know why...

Spoiler for WARNING: spoiler from games and theory on battles against each servant:

Although Archer can make copies of Noble Phantasms, every copied version will go down by a rank.

That is, if he makes a copy of Excalibur, an A ranked Noble Phantasm, he will get a B-ranked version of it.
(The destructive power of the B-ranked version is still as great as the A-ranked version, as Archer himself claimed, but it does not pack the condensed magic level of the real one)

Here's the problem: Any attack with a ranking of B or below will have no effect on Berserker, even if it can destroy the world. That is, in order for an attack to have effect on Berserker, the attack must be A-ranked. Also, the same attack will also have no effect on Berserker at all.

In order for Archer to unleash an A-ranked attack, there are two methods for him:
1) To trace an originally EX ranked weapon, such as Gilgamesh's EA.
2) Have a B ranked(or above) weapon and use broken phantasm to raise it by one rank. (broken phantasm: raise the rank of a Noble Phantasm by one rank, but the Noble Phantasm will be destroyed in the process)

Broken Phantasm is a move, so it can only be used once to take away one life of Berserker. Then Archer will have to use the first methods at least 10 more times in order to defeat Berserker.
But just how many EX ranked Noble Phantasm are out there to be traced? We don't know, but the likes of it to be above 10 is low. Not enough ammo = no other means to defeat Berserker.
Note: Caliburn's powerful enough to kill Berserker 7 times only when used by Saber

And Gilgamash is the only one Archer can defeat with his arms crossed. As you can see in Unlimited Blade Works scenario. All he need to do is to trace the same weapons Gilgamesh takes out from Gate of Babylon and have them cancel out each other. (Tracing is much faster than taking out weapons from Gate of Babylon, and if Reality Marble is open, it's instant) When Gilgamesh runs out of weapons(gilgamesh's weapons are no infinite unlike Archer), he'll be forced to use EA. Problem is: EA needs to be charged and Archer can use this gap to launch any attack he like and break Gilgamesh. The only way for Gilgamesh to beat Archer is to tie him up and blind him before the fight.

Theoretical methods for Archer to defeat other servants:

Spoiler for Rider:

Tough fight. Archer lacks strength and Agility like Rider. However if Archer can drag the fight on he will have a chance, as Rider lacks endurance. But if Sakura is the acting master we have to wish Archer luck. (literally, since that's the only time when their luck is on par)

Spoiler for Caster:

Archer class itself is already an anti-mage servant...I'm sorry Caster fans

Spoiler for Assassin:

Just stay away from the gate and keep shooting. Archer never minds about the 'cleanness' of a tactic.

Spoiler for Saber:

Lie down and get beat. As we can see in the beginning of all three routes, Archer can't even stand one second against Saber. And if you check out UBW, not even sniping works as Saber's instincts are too good to not notice. And that's ignoring the greatest cheating device ever(namely Avalon) Saber herself is simply a nuke equipped fortress, if not restricted by mana.

Spoiler for Lancer:

No idea! The fact that Lancer's agility is two ranks higher does not help at all. (Meaning no hit and run tactics)

Spoiler for True Assassin:

If the shadow is with him, no chance. If not, still no chance. Assassin's Noble Phantasm, Delusional Heartbeat, can kill Archer anytime, anywhere since Archer's mana is not high enough to fight it. Archer is unable to fight heads on against True Assassin. Assassinating him? Are you joking? Assassinate an true assassin(literally) with an Archer?

All the above theories are assuming that the servants fight heads on. Of course, Archer can finish the servants instantly by sniping their masters with the exception of Rider, Lancer, Caster and Gilgamesh since they have the ability independent action to remain in the world for quite a while. (Though that still doesn't stop him from absolutely overwhelming the later two)

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

also about the translation, yes i will take your challenge, mirror moon is translating the fate/stay saber route.

http://mirrormoon.org/fate_stay_night

i already know mirror moon is doing the translation, i know everything about fsn, except new news of course, this patch translation is old news. and i think if fsn realta nua is translated into english, it'll be more practical since 1)it'll be cheaper, the PC game is 95 U.S. dollars 2) Realta nua offers more content than the PC version.
but thats just another one of my dreams, i don't think that'll ever happen, im gonna have to learn japanese.

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

The only one Archer can never defeat is Berserker, unfortunately. If you want to know why...

Spoiler for WARNING: spoiler from games and theory on battles against each servant:

Although Archer can make copies of Noble Phantasms, every copied version will go down by a rank.

That is, if he makes a copy of Excalibur, an A ranked Noble Phantasm, he will get a B-ranked version of it.
(The destructive power of the B-ranked version is still as great as the A-ranked version, as Archer himself claimed, but it does not pack the condensed magic level of the real one)

Here's the problem: Any attack with a ranking of B or below will have no effect on Berserker, even if it can destroy the world. That is, in order for an attack to have effect on Berserker, the attack must be A-ranked. Also, the same attack will also have no effect on Berserker at all.

In order for Archer to unleash an A-ranked attack, there are two methods for him:
1) To trace an originally EX ranked weapon, such as Gilgamesh's EA.
2) Have a B ranked(or above) weapon and use broken phantasm to raise it by one rank. (broken phantasm: raise the rank of a Noble Phantasm by one rank, but the Noble Phantasm will be destroyed in the process)

Broken Phantasm is a move, so it can only be used once to take away one life of Berserker. Then Archer will have to use the first methods at least 10 more times in order to defeat Berserker.
But just how many EX ranked Noble Phantasm are out there to be traced? We don't know, but the likes of it to be above 10 is low. Not enough ammo = no other means to defeat Berserker.
Note: Caliburn's powerful enough to kill Berserker 7 times only when used by Saber

And Gilgamash is the only one Archer can defeat with his arms crossed. As you can see in Unlimited Blade Works scenario. All he need to do is to trace the same weapons Gilgamesh takes out from Gate of Babylon and have them cancel out each other. (Tracing is much faster than taking out weapons from Gate of Babylon, and if Reality Marble is open, it's instant) When Gilgamesh runs out of weapons(gilgamesh's weapons are no infinite unlike Archer), he'll be forced to use EA. Problem is: EA needs to be charged and Archer can use this gap to launch any attack he like and break Gilgamesh. The only way for Gilgamesh to beat Archer is to tie him up and blind him before the fight.

Theoretical methods for Archer to defeat other servants:

Spoiler for Rider:

Tough fight. Archer lacks strength and Agility like Rider. However if Archer can drag the fight on he will have a chance, as Rider lacks endurance. But if Sakura is the acting master we have to wish Archer luck. (literally, since that's the only time when their luck is on par)

Spoiler for Caster:

Archer class itself is already an anti-mage servant...I'm sorry Caster fans

Spoiler for Assassin:

Just stay away from the gate and keep shooting. Archer never minds about the 'cleanness' of a tactic.

Spoiler for Saber:

Lie down and get beat. As we can see in the beginning of all three routes, Archer can't even stand one second against Saber. And if you check out UBW, not even sniping works as Saber's instincts are too good to not notice.

Spoiler for Lancer:

No idea! The fact that Lancer's agility is two ranks higher does not help at all. (Meaning no hit and run tactics)

Spoiler for True Assassin:

If the shadow is with him, no chance. If not, still no chance. Assassin's Noble Phantasm, Delusional Heartbeat, can kill Archer anytime, anywhere since Archer's mana is not high enough to fight it. Archer is unable to fight heads on against True Assassin. Assassinating him? Are you joking? Assassinate an true assassin(literally) with an Archer?

All the above theories are assuming that the servants fight heads on. Of course, Archer can finish the servants instantly by sniping their masters with the exception of Rider, Lancer, Caster and Gilgamesh since they have the ability independent action to remain in the world for quite a while. (Though that still doesn't stop him from absolutely overwhelming the later two)

hey, yur explanations were pretty good *thumbs up*

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by sharingan0619

hey, yur explanations were pretty good *thumbs up*

There are still a lot of loopholes. It's entirely in theory and there's not much evidence backing it up. For example, in Heaven's Feel route, Shirou traced Berserker's Noble Phantasm(Hercules's bow) and killed him once(or hurt him at least, I don't remember too well). However that particular Noble Phantasm is just B ranked which is not supposed to leave a scratch at all.

And the fights based on stats are really inaccurate. Maybe there's something we overlooked about the serant's special ability/Noble Phantasm.

And we could say that Archer can easily win against Lancer if he traced Caladbolg...but who knows? Would a traced copy still carry the curse of Fate? Would it work a second time?

Someone kidnap Nasu here so we can ask him...

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

There are still a lot of loopholes. It's entirely in theory and there's not much evidence backing it up. For example, in Heaven's Feel route, Shirou traced Berserker's Noble Phantasm(Hercules's bow) and killed him once(or hurt him at least, I don't remember too well). However that particular Noble Phantasm is just B ranked which is not supposed to leave a scratch at all.

And the fights based on stats are really inaccurate. Maybe there's something we overlooked about the serant's special ability/Noble Phantasm.

And we could say that Archer can easily win against Lancer if he traced Caladbolg...but who knows? Would a traced copy still carry the curse of Fate? Would it work a second time?

Someone kidnap Nasu here so we can ask him...

yeah, someone kidnap nasu, OR write to him so we can get a sequel which is better than just standing here discussing pointless information when we all know we just want more!!

[iamandragon]

Writing won't work. We people in the Chinese forum tried signing a joint letter. no reply at all. T_T

Our best bet is to gather evidence from all of Nasu's works and link the clues together. The debate about Archer vs Berserker is still quite a hot topic.

Archer is just that cool.

[sharingan0619]

eh..chinese forum? i'm chinese...please tell me where this is, im kinda interested. So if writing won't work, then what shall we do? i don't wanna sit by here and do nothing except talk about stuff that prolly has no point at all in fsn, u do realize we're just picking at the minor details right?