Valvrave the Liberator - General Anime Discussion

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Shoko's death pushed him to get in the mecha and give up his humanity. When he was running low on power and was ready to just die it was Shoko's voice that returned him back to normal and gave him a desire to actually want to return.

yes shoko's "death" is what pushed, but it wasn't saki if anything she was trying to save him he was walking to the place where shoko "died" by a stray shot, and lightning may not strike the same place twice but bullets sure do, she trying to make him snap out of it and accepting she had no reason to believe that he would get into valvrave for revenge and given his personality from before then she wouldn't have expected him to

[Destined_Fate]

Still doesn't change that what pushes him is always Shoko related. Also, Saki wasn't trying to protect Haruto, she honestly hoped Shoko was dead. Hell, Shoko's friends later dig her up when the situation was still tense.

[Key Board]

Shadow, I think Destined fate's points are

1) Haruto's "old self" is his real self and how he should be.
2) Shoko's death caused him to change temporarily
3) Shoko's survival caused him to gradually slide back to his "old self"
4) Therefore they will not kill Shoko again so soon, because Shoko is too important of an influence to Haruto, and killing Shoko again will cause Haruto to go to point 2)
5) Which must not happen because the show is preaching point 1)

To that I say,

1) Haruto's old self is part of him, but it is not his true self. It's is only a part of him.
2) Shoko's death was catalyst that made him seriously consider L-Elf's "you can not be happy using halfhearted efforts" line.
3) The other side of Haruto shown in episode 2 is also part of him. Haruto is sums of all parts of other Haruto
4) It's precisely because of that, that they might just kill Shoko again. It's because she is such an major influence that something will happen to her in order to force the issue on Haruto again.
5) One of the main theme of the story is L-Elf's motto

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Still doesn't change that what pushes him is always Shoko related. Also, Saki wasn't trying to protect Haruto, she honestly hoped Shoko was dead. Hell, Shoko's friends later dig her up when the situation was still tense.

Saki was trying to get him to accept what seemed like the truth at that time. You can probably tell she is cynic. "Don't trust adults"

There is no ulterior motive. As some said, she probably doesn't even know him or Shoko that well at that moment.

[Destined_Fate]

Or they wont kill Shoko at all. If anything she'll live and they'll end up drifting a part for awhile than them getting together for real near/at the end.

She did know that Shoko and him are friends and are always together and she saw Shoko and Haruto at the shrine where confessions are made.

[LostSome]

Originally Posted by gordol

Spoiler:

-A-Drei isn't involved in L-Elf's plans; L-Elf leaves him be

Is that a good or a bad thing ?
Seriously, I`m thinking that`s a good thing for A-Drei.

Originally Posted by gordol

Spoiler:

-Q-Vier will do something terrible, but please don't hate him

Spoiler:

If Shoko is off limit, maybe killing Shoko`s daddy or the students families ?
Better not be Moses !

[Destined_Fate]

Spoiler:

Maybe Q-Vier does something that forces them all off their little paradise.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Or they wont kill Shoko at all. If anything she'll live and they'll end up drifting a part for awhile than them getting together for real near/at the end.

She did know that Shoko and him are friends and are always together and she saw Shoko and Haruto at the shrine where confessions are made.

every one in the show knows shoko and haruto love each other its quite obvious, but you know what they say love is blind, and when she found shoko was alive after she started developing feelings for haruto, she probably wasn't happy because she knows she probably doesn't have a shot with him now, that doesn't mean she hoped she was dead when shoko "died" she was just stating a fact they all believed was true and getting haruto to accept it, I'm pretty sure the other to characters were thinking what saki said at the time

[Key Board]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

She did know that Shoko and him are friends and are always together and she saw Shoko and Haruto at the shrine where confessions are made.

Saki reactions are very subdued for someone who supposedly has a crush on Haruto. She saw his "corpse" in the 2nd episode. What was her reaction? Just a silent tense moment. If she had a crush she would probably be more emotional.

So no, if you are arguing that Saki was jealous and wished for Shoko's death during the first episode, I think you are mistaken.

Maybe NOW she can start feeling jealous, but before that? I seriously doubt it. I'll say this again, pre episode 2, Haruto was just a background character for most people.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

every one in the show knows shoko and haruto love each other its quite obvious, but you know what they say love is blind, and when she found shoko was alive after she started developing feelings for haruto, she probably wasn't happy because she knows she probably doesn't have a shot with him now, that doesn't mean she hoped she was dead, when shoko "died" she was just stating a fact they all believed was true and getting haruto to accept it, I'm pretty sure the other to characters were thinking what saki said at the time

Doubtful, she wants Haruto and as long as Shoko is around Haruto will always have thoughts of her. Don't forget that Saki didn't even spend one second to look for Shoko, she said Shoko was dead as soon as you could.

[Nvis]

Q-Vier is the Desil of Gundam Age. He's probably going to kill an important character(to Haruto) and Haruto will go berserk on his ass.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Doubtful, she wants Haruto and as long as Shoko is around Haruto will always have thoughts of her. Don't forget that Saki didn't even spend one second to look for Shoko, she said Shoko was dead as soon as you could.

laser shot that looked like it hit her directly from the characters prospective usually don't leave corpses and why would they look for her at the time they were getting attack, and yes know her friends dug her up later while the situation was still hectic but haruto already took the fighting outside so there is no risk of getting hit by a stray shot

[Destined_Fate]

There was no debris, the lasers always left debris and explosions. There was only a flash than just dust, not a single car part anywhere. Thus if Saki had spent even a second to look she would know the laser, that wasn't even a direct hit, wouldn't have killed Shoko or destroyed the car.

Her friends knew that something was up hence why they still looked despite what Saki said and Haruto going into despair.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

There was no debris, the lasers always left debris and explosions. There was only a flash than just dust, not a single car part anywhere. Thus if Saki had spent even a second to look she would know the laser, that wasn't even a direct hit, wouldn't have killed Shoko or destroyed the car.

Her friends knew that something was up hence why they still looked despite what Saki said and Haruto going into despair.

how do we know they look didn't until after shoko had called haruto, and he could of called them and asked them to look for shoko, or shoko could have called them after she called haruto, they believed shoko was dead to otherwise they would have stopped while he was in l-elf body

[LostSome]

Not the laser thing from epi. 1 again...

@Nvis : I`m not against the idea of Shoko in a pink Ideal.

Intentional comedy, unintentional comedy ? What`s with those tags ?

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I don't see any indication that he is popular among school clubs

He was the rep of one club or clubs to win the right to use the field. Though always purposely loses to Shoko the student body cheers him on.

You don't need to be a jock or an utter nerd to be popular. Haruto could be just an all around nice guy everybody associates with.

Everybody at school knows him or at least heard of him.

The reason he is popular is that being a non-confrontation type he can get along with people of varying personalities and interest.

Everybody knew him as that nice kid but they did not expect he would be a badass.

That's usually Yamada's department being the school banchou.

Though popular and many friends he is still an introvert. As such he keeps his condition a secret as well as the existence of the Valvraves as far as he knows the one he has is very dangerous. To keep others safe.

The one he can't get along for now is L-Elf as he is still pissed he tried to kill him and wants to use him in whatever agenda he has.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by alluka

Off Topic: How did you guys manage to watch SEED? I tried and couldn't, the faces are all the same and it was a little bit creepy. Does the art improve or did you get used to it?

The one thing that got me through SEED was the music (otherwise SEED was mediocre and Destiny was pretty much crap IMO), which to be fair is a big part why I'm also loving Valvrave. TMR's Invoke/Ignite, and Pride were very good OPs, but the ones I absolutely adored were both of Nami Tamaki's songs. Though admittedly she SUCKS singing live (lol), but those two OPs are a timeless classic to me.

So while the OPs were VERY good, they had nothing on the EDs. Anna Ni Issho Datta No Ni is IIRC my first exposure to Kajiura Yuki, Reason is my favourite Tamaki Nami song, Distance of FictionJunction, and my favourite of them all, Life Goes On. Literally I would watch episodes just to watch the ending, but I torture myself by watching the parts in between the OP and the ED. Heck, my favourite part of Valvrave right now is Angela's "Boku Ja Nai", and I can't wait every episode to end just to hear it again.

Oh yeah, did I mention "I wanna go to a place"? First time I had heard of Rie Fu, who IMO was the opposite of Tamaki. While I loved the beats of Tamaki's songs but found her singing to be mediocre at best, I thought "I wanna go to a place" was a 'bad song' but beautifully sung by Rie Fu. Like really, that girl could sing.

Only things they're missing in Valvrave (and of course to have this post a bit on topic) are the kickass insert songs. Akatsuki no Kuruma and Hono no Tobira were simply amazing, and that's why I had too high expectation of the music video this episode, and got sorely disappointed. But then again, Saki is supposed to be just a 'fallen idol' only in her first year high school, so expecting them to compose a kick ass song and sing it well is too much to ask I guess. Not to mention my opinion of Tomatsu's singing voice isn't exactly all that great... XD

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

how do we know they look didn't until after shoko had called haruto, and he could of called them and asked them to look for shoko, or shoko could have called them after she called haruto, they believed shoko was dead to otherwise they would have stopped while he was in l-elf body

Because Haruto did NOT call them to tell them. When we see them again they're surprised to discover Shoko as they had expected the worst but still desired to try and they didn't want her to die while Saki was totally fine with Shoko's death. Hell, Saki takes advantage of a confused Haruto when they're in space by embracing him which causes him to push her off in a panic and that was BEFORE he knew Shoko was alive after all.

[Nayrael]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Spoiler:

So? There are flags on multiple other character as well. Like literally everywhere. Hell Haruto is a walking Flag Factory and did actually die only to come back. Shoko on the other hand already "had" her death. Why should Haruto get to cheat death and get away with it and not her? Shoko is fine and is very important to the plot as well as being "thee" main heroine.

Spoiler:

...you do know The Main Character is completely unable to raise Death Flags right? (besides for the final ep that is) How you can call him the Death Flag factory is beyond me... and having two main heroines often puts a death flag on both of them so here it is counter-productive.
And I really don't see why you are so passionate about it. People saying she has death flags is neither an insult nor will it kill her.
Of course she is not the only one with flags. Saki follows her behind (though many think she is safe due to having bad past and characters don't die until that is resolved), as does more or less every student once this whole "Doomed-to-Okuchi-Style-Failure" charade started. However, she is generally seen as the pioneer right now (the fact Okuchi is the writer of this doesn't help).

Also, Saki wasn't trying to protect Haruto, she honestly hoped Shoko was dead.

Where was it mentioned or showed that she hoped Shouko was dead? o_O

There was no debris, the lasers always left debris and explosions. There was only a flash than just dust, not a single car part anywhere. Thus if Saki had spent even a second to look she would know the laser, that wasn't even a direct hit, wouldn't have killed Shoko or destroyed the car.

Her friends knew that something was up hence why they still looked despite what Saki said and Haruto going into despair.

It buried the whole car and left a big crater behind. It was one big explosion -_-;
In 95% of situations, this would have instantly killed you. Everyone thought she was dead, later searching just in case they were wrong (or maybe Shouko got in contact with others like she did with Haruto)... or because they wanted to give her a proper burial.

And they didn't know where the laser beam hit. The only thing you'd see is a flash of light, kaboom, dust and debris or crater. Even in the scene it looked like it hit close to her.

Because Haruto did NOT call them to tell them. When we see them again they're surprised to discover Shoko as they had expected the worst but still desired to try and they didn't want her to die while Saki was totally fine with Shoko's death. Hell, Saki takes advantage of a confused Haruto when they're in space by embracing him which causes him to push her off in a panic and that was BEFORE he knew Shoko was alive after all.

Six ep's in and you still didn't get what kind of character Saki is, did you?
She didn't say she was dead because she hoped or any other BS, but because she always coldly says "How-it-is". She ain't someone to hope or delude, being thus the opposite of Shouko.
Thats why she is always brooding, why she keeps the cool head and why she rose in Shouko's defense.

[Key Board]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

He was the rep of one club or clubs to win the right to use the field. Though always purposely loses to Shoko the student body cheers him on.

You don't need to be a jock or an utter nerd to be popular. Haruto could be just an all around nice guy everybody associates with.

Everybody at school knows him or at least heard of him.

The reason he is popular is that being a non-confrontation type he can get along with people of varying personalities and interest.

Everybody knew him as that nice kid but they did not expect he would be a badass.

That's usually Yamada's department being the school banchou.

Though popular and many friends he is still an introvert. As such he keeps his condition a secret as well as the existence of the Valvraves as far as he knows the one he has is very dangerous. To keep others safe.

The one he can't get along for now is L-Elf as he is still pissed he tried to kill him and wants to use him in whatever agenda he has.

He was the rep because they decided who it would be using rock paper and scissors..

There is no indication that he was popular and that everyone in the school knows or at least heard of him.

I'm not even sure if he was infamous for giving up

[kuromitsu]

Pre-VVV Haruto seems to me the kind of student who is on decent terms with most everyone, has some friends, does some volunteer work every now and then, but doesn't stand out, and most people won't remember him in a few years.

Post-VVV Haruto is a different story, though.