Dating

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

So, for a while now, I've had some difficulty with a girl I've known for two years. We got close very quickly, she developed feelings for me that I didn't reciprocate, and after a while she started dating someone else. During that time, her feelings for me seemed to have cooled to the point where I was no longer under consideration, and things were fairly easy between us.

However, she eventually broke up with her boyfriend out of a desire to resume pursuing me, though she didn't explain this until recently. When RB and I were dating, she didn't reveal much of anything, then came after me hard right out the gate when we split. I was angry about that, because it seemed rather exploitative, so I took a few steps back from her. Unfortunately, I am one of the few people in her life that actually provides any sort of support for her--her family is a fractious mess, with a lot of psychological and physical difficulties and entrenched feuds--so when her brother and uncle died in a car accident over the holidays, I couldn't bring myself to stay mad at her. On top of that, while I'm trying to help her come to grips with that, the school district where she works starts debating cutting back on its special needs programs--and she teaches special needs children. Between that and trying to support her grieving mother in the wake of the deaths, she got pretty overwhelmed and had several breakdowns.

That brings us to the present day, where all that has really happened is that she has developed a crushingly heavy dependence on me. I have rejected her advances before, but this time I wasn't really able to control my frustration, and I was rather harsh with her. I told her that a relationship is never going to happen there, and that if she can't detach herself enough from me to be around me without putting all her baggage at my feet, that I will step out of her life permanently. I explained how stifled she made me feel.

I suppose what I'm wondering is...was it fair of me to react that way? It's not like she has been a bad person by any means, nor do I fail to appreciate the weight of the things she has and continues to deal with. What bothers me, and what I notice in many relationships in my age range is that people have this utterly superficial notion about the 'special' nature of romance, that their partner has to be 'the only person they can trust/be themselves with/be honest with/give their best to', or they have to 'need' that person. I can't grasp why people need that, or think that they're ready to have a relationship if they are genuinely pinning a whole part of themselves solely on one person. Personally, I've always decided who I wanted to be with based on "Hey, I like you a lot/love you, let's give it a try" and any more complicated motive than that seems like a bad thing.

Imho, you did the right thing in telling her how you felt. She may not have liked it but she needed to understand that when you did not reciprocate her feelings, it wasn't worth the time to seek you out whenever she had trouble. A good relationship isn't one where one party makes an advance to ease one's pain or grief or for the other party to act as an emotional tampon. I'm sure you know this already, and a good relationship is one where both parties can enjoy life and enjoy each other with all their pros and cons. It's not a vessel through which you can lay each other's problems on and hope they can be solved. You can be a friend to her, but you are right in telling her that they can't be together when being together for her means putting a huge weight on your shoulders and expect everything to be better.

[Flinch]

Placing that amount of one's mental and emotional stability on another like that makes everything more complicated, and frankly, there are for more "wrong" answers. Hindsight is perfect, so you shouldn't beat yourself up over it. It may, however, have been a bit harsh, but needed to be said.

[Ricky Controversy]

Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi

Imho, you did the right thing in telling her how you felt. She may not have liked it but she needed to understand that when you did not reciprocate her feelings, it wasn't worth the time to seek you out whenever she had trouble. A good relationship isn't one where one party makes an advance to ease one's pain or grief or for the other party to act as an emotional tampon. I'm sure you know this already, and a good relationship is one where both parties can enjoy life and enjoy each other with all their pros and cons. It's not a vessel through which you can lay each other's problems on and hope they can be solved. You can be a friend to her, but you are right in telling her that they can't be together when being together for her means putting a huge weight on your shoulders and expect everything to be better.

It's not even so much that part that concerned me as the part where I threatened to just cut her off completely. A part of me believes very much in the 'tough love' school of thought, because I know for my part there are a lot of things I wouldn't have outgrown if I hadn't taken a few swift kicks to the head, but I also know that there's a time and place for it, and someone whose mental/emotional landscape is so unstable...I don't know that I can make that move safely, even if I think it needs to happen.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

It's not even so much that part that concerned me as the part where I threatened to just cut her off completely. A part of me believes very much in the 'tough love' school of thought, because I know for my part there are a lot of things I wouldn't have outgrown if I hadn't taken a few swift kicks to the head, but I also know that there's a time and place for it, and someone whose mental/emotional landscape is so unstable...I don't know that I can make that move safely, even if I think it needs to happen.

Of course, but I still think you were right to do that because if she was going to continue seek a relationship with you as a way to let out her grief rather than appreciate you for who you are, then it's pointless to continue to maintain contact, especially if nothing like what she was hoping for would ever happen.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by AHH

How do you suggest people react? Even if they react to it calmly, the fact is that if the feelings aren't reciprocated, it's going to change how they interact.

Maybe it will, and maybe it won't. You won't know unless you drop dangerous assumptions and answer truthfully and honestly; especially if the person says they are fine if the feelings aren't returned. I'd like to think we can try to trust someone first. If you react badly and angrily to it, then it makes you the bad guy. But if you answer truthfully and they react badly, then the onus is on them. So, if nothing else, answering honestly and trying to keep things the status quo keeps your hands clean.

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

I suppose what I'm wondering is...was it fair of me to react that way? It's not like she has been a bad person by any means, nor do I fail to appreciate the weight of the things she has and continues to deal with. What bothers me, and what I notice in many relationships in my age range is that people have this utterly superficial notion about the 'special' nature of romance, that their partner has to be 'the only person they can trust/be themselves with/be honest with/give their best to', or they have to 'need' that person. I can't grasp why people need that, or think that they're ready to have a relationship if they are genuinely pinning a whole part of themselves solely on one person. Personally, I've always decided who I wanted to be with based on "Hey, I like you a lot/love you, let's give it a try" and any more complicated motive than that seems like a bad thing.

It depends on whether you're seeking justification in retrospect, or you're honestly curious. I'll go with the latter.

And even then, it's a tough call. I can tell that me personally, I'm not one to push someone away deliberately. I have someone who has been crushing on me lately, and obviously flirting, but I haven't reciprocated or encouraged it much. Even if she does come out and say it, I plan to try and keep the friendship if I can.

One thing I've learned, is that we all have problems. We all have baggage. So someone seeking a relationship while having baggage isn't necessarily "wrong." Perhaps you can't handle that; as I said, it's a tough call, and also a personal thing. She may not love you, or love you because you're one of the few who did reach out to her, so I kinda have to feel that cutting someone out completely just feels wrong to me. The only way we humans get through life, is by relying on people to help us, and we all need varying degrees of it.

If I were you, I'd probably try to get her more help and more friends, broaden her supportive social circle, so she doesn't rely on me so much. Or when the inevitable rejection comes, she has people to turn to and thus it doesn't hurt as much. There are people who can handle her, so the trick would be in finding someone who can.

I'm afraid that's the best I can say. Hope it at least gives you something to think about. It's a tough situation, but sometimes life demands that of us, and how we respond, shapes who were are. I'd lay odds you come out a stronger person, if you can handle this well enough.

[Kafriel]

@ Ricky, friends share both good and bad times...but do you even wanna be friends with this one?

[Ricky Controversy]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

@ Ricky, friends share both good and bad times...but do you even wanna be friends with this one?

We ended up having another conversation today, and we decided it'd be best to part ways. She wasn't happy about it, but I really think she needs to outgrow her obsessive attitude towards me, and to do that she'll need distance and time.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

We ended up having another conversation today, and we decided it'd be best to part ways. She wasn't happy about it, but I really think she needs to outgrow her obsessive attitude towards me, and to do that she'll need distance and time.

Honestly, reading through your post and knowing what I already know from our chats about her, I think you did what was best for both of you. She needs to get away from you and get back on her feet and able to depend on herself again, and you just need to get away from her being dependent on you and looking for a relationship she'll probably never have. So, I say you did the best thing you could.

[Jjo]

Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy

I suppose what I'm wondering is...was it fair of me to react that way? It's not like she has been a bad person by any means, nor do I fail to appreciate the weight of the things she has and continues to deal with. What bothers me, and what I notice in many relationships in my age range is that people have this utterly superficial notion about the 'special' nature of romance, that their partner has to be 'the only person they can trust/be themselves with/be honest with/give their best to', or they have to 'need' that person. I can't grasp why people need that, or think that they're ready to have a relationship if they are genuinely pinning a whole part of themselves solely on one person. Personally, I've always decided who I wanted to be with based on "Hey, I like you a lot/love you, let's give it a try" and any more complicated motive than that seems like a bad thing.

I can't really comment on whether it's fair or not considering there are always three sides to every story. Since all we see here is yours...and not hers...whether something is 'fair' or not ..umm iduno..I guess it's fair because you were well within your freedom of speech I assume. But otherwise, I would need to hear her side of the story - which is probably very different from yours.
'
As your for opinion on that "superficial notion" ..you don't have to grasp it, not everyone shares your belief or opinions regarding a relationship or romance. So it's pretty silly to concern yourself with anothers opinion on what should take place in a relationship. Doesn't make on "superficial" and yours not superficial. Just different.

I will say that you probably did her a favour in the long run though after reading that. Esp. considering what her emotional state may be right now.

[Knightrunner]

Ricky,

I know you have to do what is best for you, but for some reason I get this "ick" feeling when I read it is best to part ways. When you had that conversation of parting ways I don't see how she had much of a choice when you gave her the ultimatum that you will leave permanately. She only could agree with parting ways because that was practically her only option not because she truely believe it is best for her. Now I'm wondering where she can turn to now. She seems like she barely has any friends, a broken up family that experienced death, a job she could potentially lose, and now this adding to her shoulders. If I were a good friend of hers I would really try to find a better option. Does she even have anybody to talk about her problems too? If she doesn't then I think in the short run which will lead to a middle run permanent scars.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Jjo

As your for opinion on that "superficial notion" ..you don't have to grasp it, not everyone shares your belief or opinions regarding a relationship or romance. So it's pretty silly to concern yourself with anothers opinion on what should take place in a relationship. Doesn't make on "superficial" and yours not superficial. Just different.

Actually, in Ricky's defense, this does often seem to be a very common opinion/notion about romance in general; that you "need" the person, or that the person is the one person who truly "understands" you, thus making your relationship with them special. And it's something that drives me up the wall, personally. Because for me, the one person I tend to need the most is someone I've always considered my closest friend. And when I try to describe my relationship with her, everyone tells me it sounds more like it's a romance than friendship.

[Kaijo]

Because humanity does need each other. We humans are social creatures, and do need people we can depend and rely on, and whether you want to blame it on genetics or feelings, a lot of us need a partner. And when you talk to two people in love, you'll hear a lot about how they complete each other, that they need each other, etc. So it's no coincidence that people hold this viewpoint.

In fact, some might argue that if refer to your partner as "Eh, I like him/her, but I don't care if he/she is around or not" then it might not really be love. From a psychological standpoint, there has to be some strong need there, in order to able to continue to live together for years. If there is no need, then the relationship is easily broken.

Something that is easily formed, is easily broken.

[synaesthetic]

I don't need people.

I need money.

[Miyuki-ism]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

I don't need people.

I need money.

Quote of the Millennium.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

I don't need people.

I need money.

At least you are not that kind of person, who needs people who have money (because of the money).

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Jjo

Some of you here really need to get over yourself, stop trying so hard, and go outside and socialize with real people. Honestly, not everyone sees things that way you do. You will need to accept this at some point.

This is the Dating thread. There is nothing definitive or 100% factual about dating and relationships. Everything is based on opinion and experience. If you don't like people expressing their opinions, why do you come to this thread?

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Obsessing over your romantic partner is not healthy. Any psychologist can tell you that!

Even moreso when said obsession isn't even at the level of romantic partner.

[NightWish]

I don't like removing discussion but you guys were veering way to much into debating the debate rather than the topic at hand. Please try to avoid doing that in the thread. VMs and PMs are available if you need a meta-discussion.

[Kaijo]

Obsessing over anything is bad. But if you don't miss your partner while they are gone, if you don't light up in their presence, if you don't think about them several times a day, then I'd argue that there is no relationship.

A guideline I use: We humans think about ourselves a lot. For your other half, you should be thinking about them just as much.

[dredmorte]

since these are the internets, i guess i can say whatever i want maybe feel better so here it goes:

I'm a complete looser, 20 years old and still haven't even kissed a girl. I'm not even that ugly, I mean, i don't consider myself attractive but not ugly either. I used to be a bit chubby but I've been getting better ever since i started working. I'm slight above average IQ. My intrests, besides anime and games are politics, philosophy, economics and history (i'm a libertarian, a rarity in a socialist country that is Portugal).

Yet, despite not being unlucky at birth, i still can't get a girlfriend. My biggest problem i think, is a lack of opportunities, and a lack of skill to create them. It doesn't help that i hate alcohol, smoke and loud noises. I can't even fathom entering a disco. I wouldn't know how to talk to a girl either, I'm too shy.

I go to work, arrive home (live with parents and 2 younger sisters), eat, play computer, sleep, go to work, repeat.... free days mostly do nothing...
The years are passing and i'm starting to feel lonely.

So for all you peoples complaining your dates have been shit, well, cheer up, there are those even less fortunate

[LMF]

^Just talk to a girl. Talk as much as you want...

I'm worst than you, bro...

I don't have a job nor money. Those are the first priorities with women...