Dating

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by willx

I agree with that. For the rest of you guys, what the heck do you think dating is!?

Barring children, marriage and all those other complicated things that typically come much much later ..

People date and are together when they enjoy themselves. They split when they don't. No one says you should lie, but for people that don't know you, you wouldn't walk around on the streets advertising your flaws for no reason, right?

You don't go to work and wear otaku t-shirts or drag hug pillows with you do you?

I do wear otaku T-shirts to work since I am an engineer. Fun part comes when some of the users are actually closet otaku.

[bigdeal000]

Originally Posted by willx

I agree with that. For the rest of you guys, what the heck do you think dating is!?

Barring children, marriage and all those other complicated things that typically come much much later ..

People date and are together when they enjoy themselves. They split when they don't. No one says you should lie, but for people that don't know you, you wouldn't walk around on the streets advertising your flaws for no reason, right?

You don't go to work and wear otaku t-shirts or drag hug pillows with you do you?

With "live" dating, you don't need to fill an internet sheet with bullshit and then wait for a random someone to fall for it. And then, maybe you'll have fun. That's the issue here. "Live" dating (I really dunno what else to call it) is a lot more...well, up close and personal. That means you'll see the girl for what she is and then ask her out if you think you'll have fun with her. How am I supposed to choose someone if everyone is " enthusiastic, adventurous, spontaneous, caring, social, etc"? I don't have time for that sort of trial and error...

[willx]

Originally Posted by GDB

But this whole conversation started because of lines that people have on their profiles that are obviously lies.

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

I do wear otaku T-shirts to work since I am an engineer. Fun part comes when some of the users are actually closet otaku.

Originally Posted by bigdeal000

With "live" dating, you don't need to fill an internet sheet with bullshit and then wait for a random someone to fall for it. And then, maybe you'll have fun. That's the issue here. "Live" dating (I really dunno what else to call it) is a lot more...well, up close and personal. That means you'll see the girl for what she is and then ask her out if you think you'll have fun with her.

Hm, I'm confused, maybe this relates to the idea of Online vs. Real-life Personas? I don't act any different in real life than I do online:http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...hlight=persona

My comments are thus:
1) Why are you presuming that those people are lying on their profiles? I would write the same thing and I wouldn't be lying. I do like to travel .. but I also enjoy staying at home playing games for 15 hours.

2) Even if they were lying -- if it's that obvious -- do you think the girls reading these profiles don't have eyes that can see through bullshit? If you say you like to travel -- people will actually ask you where you've gone? Where you'd like to go? Do you think if you all lied on your profiles other people wouldn't see through it?

3) Saintess ..

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by GDB

But this whole conversation started because of lines that people have on their profiles that are obviously lies. Like, scripted stuff that's supposed to make them seem awesome. You know, like being "adventurous" or "liking to travel" or some such, when the most adventurous thing they've done in the past 3 years is buy a new brand of shampoo, or even though they "like to travel" they never do because they can't/won't spend the money

Willx is generally right. Anyway, my own experience of online dating is actually that most profiles are horrendously dull. If you can spell correctly, you're already beating most people.

I also feel that you might be down on yourself for your lack of "adventure", if so do something about it! Either lose the excuses and do those adventures, or be a bit more positive about your unadventurous lifestyle! I crack jokes on my profile about how I'm on my computer most fridays nights, and plenty of girls dig that. The ones who don't I probably wouldn't get along with anyway.

You need to be in a place where you like yourself, after all if you can't love yourself, how can you expect the same of someone else to? And if you don't like yourself, figure out why and work on it. For instance I was down on myself for being unemployed, and so I focused on that instead of dating. After I got a job I had nothing to be ashamed of anymore, and I found it much easier to talk with women, as I didn't need to hide anything.

[Nightbat®]

Originally Posted by willx

Hm, I'm confused, maybe this relates to the idea of Online vs. Real-life Personas? I don't act any different in real life than I do online:http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...hlight=persona

My comments are thus:
1) Why are you presuming that those people are lying on their profiles? I would write the same thing and I wouldn't be lying. I do like to travel .. but I also enjoy staying at home playing games for 15 hours.

So, you travel around the world 9 months of the year, (I assume for leisure, not work)
Or just like most people, you scrounge up the money for a few weeks long vacation somewhere on this planet

I bet you stay at home and play games more than you travel

"I like to take my motorcycle to the track"
Exciting stuff huh,... better NOT mention I've only done so 2 times in the 9 years I have my license

2) Even if they were lying -- if it's that obvious -- do you think the girls reading these profiles don't have eyes that can see through bullshit? If you say you like to travel -- people will actually ask you where you've gone? Where you'd like to go? Do you think if you all lied on your profiles other people wouldn't see through it?

No they can't, because they're looking for someone that offers what they want

The term "looking for my prince on his white steed" is found ad nauseum in these profiles
So the fantasy needs to be kept alive as best as possible

And I'm pretty sure me stating "No prince with steed, I'm more like a labourer on a bicycle"
-even though it's pretty close to true-
will have negative effects on how they percieve me, when 2 profiles earlier some guy DOES claim to be their fantasy delusion

[GDB]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

You need to be in a place where you like yourself, after all if you can't love yourself, how can you expect the same of someone else to? And if you don't like yourself, figure out why and work on it. For instance I was down on myself for being unemployed, and so I focused on that instead of dating. After I got a job I had nothing to be ashamed of anymore, and I found it much easier to talk with women, as I didn't need to hide anything.

And if one doesn't like themselves due to wanting a relationship, but having little to no experience in such, what then? Rather nasty perpetual motion cycle to be stuck in there.

Also, what Nightbat said.

[willx]

As for the first part of your message -- you're making an absurd comparison (reductio ad absurdum) -- it's like saying:

"You said you like fried chicken? Well, do you eat it 9 months out of the year!?"

I'm am also perfectly okay with saying: "I travel when I can, which is not as much as I'd like, a couple of weeks a year .. most of the time I'm a bit of a homebody, sitting around watching tv, playing games and spending time with close friends" - how about that one? Do you have an objection against that?

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

And I'm pretty sure me stating "No prince with steed, I'm more like a labourer on a bicycle"
-even though it's pretty close to true-
will have negative effects on how they percieve me, when 2 profiles earlier some guy DOES claim to be their fantasy delusion

I'll take that bet with you. If you say:

"I'm not a prince on a white steed, but I'm a hard working guy that is looking for a down to earth girl to get to know and maybe have some good times with" -- I bet you it'll resonate with more than a few nice girls.

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

The term "looking for my prince on his white steed" is found ad nauseum in these profiles
So the fantasy needs to be kept alive as best as possible

And I'm pretty sure me stating "No prince with steed, I'm more like a labourer on a bicycle"
-even though it's pretty close to true-
will have negative effects on how they percieve me, when 2 profiles earlier some guy DOES claim to be their fantasy delusion

I rarely see that. Maybe you're on the wrong sites? Try okcupid, I find a lot of pretty nerdy girls there.

But you're reading too much into it. Most women have pretty low expectations. Social skills are the only thing you need.

Originally Posted by GDB

And if one doesn't like themselves due to wanting a relationship, but having little to no experience in such, what then? Rather nasty perpetual motion cycle to be stuck in there.

I know how you feel, but you have to look at yourself more objectively. Besides your inexperience, are you smart, funny and attractive with a bit of ambition? Then don't worry, they'll love you! And if you're not, work on it!

And if you feel anxious about your inexperience, don't worry too much, unless you're cruising for sex, most girls won't notice, and those who do may find it "cute"! (Think hugh grant).

However you do need to get used to rejection, it's going to happen A LOT. It's their problem though!
Online dating is a great safe way to get used to this, I find.

Originally Posted by willx

As for the first part of your message -- you're making an absurd comparison (reductio ad absurdum) -- it's like saying:

"You said you like fried chicken? Well, do you eat it 9 months out of the year!?"

I'm am also perfectly okay with saying: "I travel when I can, which is not as much as I'd like, a couple of weeks a year .. most of the time I'm a bit of a homebody, sitting around watching tv, playing games and spending time with close friends" - how about that one? Do you have an objection against that?



I'll take that bet with you. If you say:

"I'm not a prince on a white steed, but I'm a hard working guy that is looking for a down to earth girl to get to know and maybe have some good times with" -- I bet you it'll resonate with more than a few nice girls.

THIS. It's not about WHAT you say, but the way you say it. It's your choice whether or not you're proud of your lifestyle. Nothing to be ashamed of being a bike riding working man!

[Seitsuki]

I would rather cry in a BMW than laugh on a bicycle.

At least you guys still have some things easier than others?

[Nightbat®]

Originally Posted by willx

As for the first part of your message -- you're making an absurd comparison (reductio ad absurdum) -- it's like saying:

"You said you like fried chicken? Well, do you eat it 9 months out of the year!?"

If it would be a character trait that is percieved as desireable (adventurous, exciting),
you'd be seeing THAT on dating profiles a lot more
Oh, and I like riding my bike
Enough to do it untill the winter makes it too risky, which makes it about 9 months a year

I'm am also perfectly okay with saying: "I travel when I can, which is not as much as I'd like, a couple of weeks a year .. most of the time I'm a bit of a homebody, sitting around watching tv, playing games and spending time with close friends" - how about that one? Do you have an objection against that?

That sounds a lot better, but it's not what I'm reading in those profiles

I'll take that bet with you. If you say:

"I'm not a prince on a white steed, but I'm a hard working guy that is looking for a down to earth girl to get to know and maybe have some good times with" -- I bet you it'll resonate with more than a few nice girls.

Already have such a statement on my profile, I never try to sell myself better then I think I am
though I would omit the "good time" bit, since I won't/can't garantee someone else's opinion

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

I rarely see that. Maybe you're on the wrong sites? Try okcupid, I find a lot of pretty nerdy girls there.

Probably different culture

But you're reading too much into it. Most women have pretty low expectations. Social skills are the only thing you need.

Wait, women have low expectations?
If that were true I'd gotten hitched years ago

Who do you think is the guy who gets the most reactions
"Warehouse worker" or "Assistant veterinarian"
(hell we even have a datingsite for "higher educated" people over here, where I'll bet a whole lot more ladies are registered than the 'normal' sites)

Yeah, my social skills could use some polishing up, since treating men and women equally doesn't work when women want to be treated specially

I know how you feel, but you have to look at yourself more objectively. Besides your inexperience, are you smart, funny and attractive with a bit of ambition? Then don't worry, they'll love you!

Nope, I'm loyal, practical, upright, perseverant, direct, conscientious, down-to-earth, forgiving, understanding, patient
and a person quickly content with the few good things he has, even if they aren't 'perfect'

And if you're not, work on it!

because looks, ambition, smoothtalking and intelligence are worth a hell of a lot more?

And if you feel anxious about your inexperience, don't worry too much, unless you're cruising for sex, most girls won't notice, and those who do may find it "cute"! (Think hugh grant).

Isn't Hugh Grant that guy whos acting career went down the toilet after he solicited for sex in public?

However you do need to get used to rejection, it's going to happen A LOT. It's their problem though!

Rejection is my middle name (if I had one), and since when is someone not wanting me THEIR problem?
Since when is the one that has water in a desert at a disadvantage?
Last I checked, most, if not all, ended up just fine without me

Online dating is a great safe way to get used to this, I find.

I do think you are correct in this
But it's also a lot less personal, and in many cases, a 'stage' to perform on

THIS. It's not about WHAT you say, but the way you say it. It's your choice whether or not you're proud of your lifestyle. Nothing to be ashamed of being a bike riding working man!

The last thing I am is ashamed of being a worker
But I'll be damned if I sugarcoat anything, I sure as hell didn't live in a cotton-candy world
any hard facts were given as "this is how it is, deal with it" no "But/maybe/if"s

I am certainly able of being kind and gentle
but I state it as: "I like you" instead of
"Young lady, I must admit that your interesting personality has maken me grow fond of your presence"

People want a play, a fantasy setting, I just happen to be a a lousy actor (or maybe should say that I hate acting, ...and theater in general )

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

If it would be a character trait that is percieved as desireable (adventurous, exciting),
you'd be seeing THAT on dating profiles a lot more

Plenty of girls are also looking for a more stable, homey relationship. There are all sorts out there.

That sounds a lot better, but it's not what I'm reading in those profiles

And I've seen it on lots of profiles. Try a different site.

Already have such a statement on my profile, I never try to sell myself better then I think I am
though I would omit the "good time" bit, since I won't/can't garantee someone else's opinion

You're actually selling yourself as worse then you really are. Be positive "I think we'll have great time" is not a guarantee, but rather a sincere expression of intent.

Wait, women have low expectations?
If that were true I'd gotten hitched years ago

Then why do so many pretty average guys have no problems getting a girlfriend?

Who do you think is the guy who gets the most reactions
"Warehouse worker" or "Assistant veterinarian"
(hell we even have a datingsite for "higher educated" people over here, where I'll bet a whole lot more ladies are registered than the 'normal' sites)

Then educate yourself and get yourself out of warehouse work. You can upskill. Take some courses.

Yeah, my social skills could use some polishing up, since treating men and women equally doesn't work when women want to be treated specially

Works with plenty of women, maybe you're looking in the wrong places?

Nope, I'm loyal, practical, upright, perseverant, direct, conscientious, down-to-earth, forgiving, understanding, patient
and a person quickly content with the few good things he has, even if they aren't 'perfect'

Pretty good, but don't be content, women like ambition, no matter how small!



[/Quote]
because looks, ambition, smoothtalking and intelligence are worth a hell of a lot more?[/quote] Really another way to say social skills. You can work on that...

Isn't Hugh Grant that guy whos acting career went down the toilet after he solicited for sex in public?

Sure, but look at his movies, girls crumbled at his awkward act!

Rejection is my middle name (if I had one), and since when is someone not wanting me THEIR problem?
Since when is the one that has water in a desert at a disadvantage?
Last I checked, most, if not all, ended up just fine without me

Nonsense. By not hanging out with you THEY ate the ones missing out on a fun time, not you! Move on and find a girl who correctly appreciates you. But you neef to feel like you're offering as much as they are. By hanging with you, they're not giving you some gift!

I do think you are correct in this
But it's also a lot less personal, and in many cases, a 'stage' to perform on

Yes, but what's wrong with some stagecraft. I enjoy entertaining girls with my showmanship.

The last thing I am is ashamed of being a worker
But I'll be damned if I sugarcoat anything, I sure as hell didn't live in a cotton-candy world
any hard facts were given as "this is how it is, deal with it" no "But/maybe/if"s

I am certainly able of being kind and gentle
but I state it as: "I like you" instead of
"Young lady, I must admit that your interesting personality has maken me grow fond of your presence"

People want a play, a fantasy setting, I just happen to be a a lousy actor (or maybe should say that I hate acting, ...and theater in general )

You're being too proud. Take a leaf out of marketting and learn to sell yourself. You'll get better jobs and you'll get better women. You think the engineers and managers got their jobs by telling their interviewers they had an occasional lazy day? And selling yourself ain't lying, it's just highlighting your best qualities!

[Nightbat®]

*this is my 3rd revisit to a reply, pretty hard to remain clear and to-the-point without a lot of elaboration

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Plenty of girls are also looking for a more stable, homey relationship. There are all sorts out there.

And I've seen it on lots of profiles. Try a different site.

Again, maybe it's the difference in culture, perhaps in your neck of the woods, ladies are more into down-to-earth/blue collar guys
over here, the ones into that are mostly immigrants from the east
for the rest, it's a society scared of getting their hands dirty, and an increasing shortage of unskilled and skilled labourers

You're actually selling yourself as worse then you really are. Be positive "I think we'll have great time" is not a guarantee, but rather a sincere expression of intent.

"The golden rule"
I don't set up people for potential disappointment, I'd expect the same courtesy in return
"a great time" can be assessed AFTER the event, not before
and even then, it's a personal opinion in which you have no control over the other's

Then why do so many pretty average guys have no problems getting a girlfriend?

Been wondering about that for 20 years

Then educate yourself and get yourself out of warehouse work. You can upskill. Take some courses.

That I point out that ladies prefer a doctor over a plumber
has nothing to do with me needing to change profession
If women consider what I do is not good enough, **** 'em!
I don't care if the girl I'm interested in flips burgers at the McDrive, why should it matter the other way around?

I could understand a disdain for social leechers, that sit on their ass and make no effort to make themselves usefull
But here we're talking about having a decent job which pays the bills which only lacks higher social status

Works with plenty of women, maybe you're looking in the wrong places?

I think it has more to do with the absence of expensive clothing and jewellery
Not looking like George Clooney may also have something to do with that

Pretty good, but don't be content, women like ambition, no matter how small!

I strive to DO my best, not BE the best, where my efforts lead me, I don't know
All I do know is that I'm content with what I have, and continue to (try and) improve my life
That I'll never be a millionaire or president is fine by me and I've given up on becoming "Mr. Popular" long ago

Again, if that's not good enough, I fail to see why I should do any 'extra' effort for the lady

Really another way to say social skills. You can work on that...

No, it has to do with wanting perfection
I can't supply that, I have good traits that apparently play second fiddle to polishing a turd

Sure, but look at his movies, girls crumbled at his awkward act!

He is a scripted character, I unfortunatly am a real person that lacks many endearing traits (if not all)
I do not posses the character/charm/aura/whatever that makes people think I need help/protection/understanding

Oooh, they know where to find me when they need it, because I do have the 'aura' of someone willing to help and get the job done
but I could actually get on my knees and beg for help, yet recieve nothing but an apology
Yeah, it may be considered good to not appear to be weak, untill you need help
then you're ****ed

Nonsense. By not hanging out with you THEY ate the ones missing out on a fun time, not you! Move on and find a girl who correctly appreciates you. But you neef to feel like you're offering as much as they are. By hanging with you, they're not giving you some gift!

What are they missing out on?
they passed on spending time with someone they are not interested in, whatever
'profit' they could have gained is irrelevant since they had no desire to look for profit in the first place

and I'm offering a real guy, not someone pretending to be the best thing since sliced bread
It's what I'd like to see in return (well, not a guy though )

And a lady actually willing to hang out with me? I'd consider it a gift
Last time I checked, it's certainly not a right, it's not like I can chain myself to a fence and demand it

Yes, but what's wrong with some stagecraft. I enjoy entertaining girls with my showmanship.

I prefer to show myself, and I know it's less entertaining, but it's real now, and probably will be 6 weeks/5 years/3 decades from now

It's not unlike that image of a perfect big mac in the advert, which, after you paid for it,
open the box and see the real thing is a lumpy, flattened, lifeless piece of bread with some meat, sauce and vegetables crushed between them

Yes, I know it's not a good move to advertise with a lumpy burger, but at least
you know what you're getting

This is what I sell:
a decent guy, seen some milage, has some wear, old workhorse
what lacks in glitter and glamour is made up with reliability and resolution, got some creases, but they probably can be ironed out in time

You're being too proud. Take a leaf out of marketting and learn to sell yourself. You'll get better jobs and you'll get better women. You think the engineers and managers got their jobs by telling their interviewers they had an occasional lazy day? And selling yourself ain't lying, it's just highlighting your best qualities!

Even applying for a job, I'm more straightforward then most, but I'm not applying for something paying the bills, this isn't 'work' or a 'product' I'm dealing with

And I have no problems with jobapplications since those qualities seemingly undesired in romance
are appreciated in a workforce of my level

But no one -including me- wants to have
"here lies a dependable colleague - we will miss the income he generated"
on his headstone

[willx]

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

That I point out that ladies prefer a doctor over a plumber
has nothing to do with me needing to change profession
If women consider what I do is not good enough, **** 'em!
I don't care if the girl I'm interested in flips burgers at the McDrive, why should it matter the other way around?

-Snip-

What are they missing out on?
they passed on spending time with someone they are not interested in, whatever
'profit' they could have gained is irrelevant since they had no desire to look for profit in the first place

Point #1 -- You should care if the girl you're interested in flips burgers or not. It should matter because if you're looking for a long-term mate you have to think about your mutual lifestyle together "go-forward" ..

Point #2 -- I think this is more emblematic of people saying you're selling yourself short. They're arguably passing on spending time with someone they don't know and could be potentially missing out on something that could be amazing. Amazing isn't always flying to sunny destinations and expensive presents. Amazing can be waking up on a cold morning, snuggling closer to your partner under a blank and falling back asleep .. only to wake up again and them having a hot cup of coffee ready for you!

[Nightbat®]

Originally Posted by willx

Point #1 -- You should care if the girl you're interested in flips burgers or not. It should matter because if you're looking for a long-term mate you have to think about your mutual lifestyle together "go-forward" ..

I'm really beginning to think the "Never enough" world is slowly pissing me off

So, I should take someone never content with what they have, only forging forward, leaving behind what has 'lost it's initial value'?

So, at what point will I lose my "initial value"?

Point #2 -- I think this is more emblematic of people saying you're selling yourself short. They're arguably passing on spending time with someone they don't know and could be potentially missing out on something that could be amazing. Amazing isn't always flying to sunny destinations and expensive presents. Amazing can be waking up on a cold morning, snuggling closer to your partner under a blank and falling back asleep ..

I'm sorry, the situation you are describing is totally alien to me

only to wake up again and them having a hot cup of coffee ready for you!

Well, there's a surefire way for someone to make me propose

[willx]

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

I'm really beginning to think the "Never enough" world is slowly pissing me off

So, I should take someone never content with what they have, only forging forward, leaving behind what has 'lost it's initial value'?

So, at what point will I lose my "initial value"?

You don't get my point at all. At all. Everyone should care about their potential partners' goals and aspirations just as you care about whether they're pretty, friendly, caring, etc.

My point is not about "going forward" as in the past has lost it's value or only about having more ambition and never having enough .. it's about deciding how you envision what you want your life to be like -- and then think about whether the potential mates you'll meet actually fit into that.

If you want a simple life .. smallish house some day, children, sending said children to college, etc. Well, flipping burgers for the rest of her life probably isn't going to cut it. Doesn't mean either of you need to be doctors or lawyers, but it does mean you have to be aware of what people want and how they expect to get there.

[Nightbat®]

I get that, but I look from my own perspective, which, at this moment, is quite allright
Job, house, bike, parakeet, hobbies, what is there to desire more?

Better job? Bigger house? Faster bike? Tame bird of prey? More hobbies? Nah.
Already having the knowledge and experience being off much worse in the past, I'll appreciate what I have now
So any person with that same mindset, could by no means, be a turnoff for me

[willx]

So, to throw some more controversy into the whole "online dating" thing -- here's a blog that details the tale of a female here in Toronto (Canada) that is on a mission to eat at the nicest restaurants in the city .. and make her dates pay for all of it!

From the beginning:
http://restauranttipsfromaserialdate...ets-go-fishing

[GDB]

If they got the money to spend, more power to them. She's basically being an escort, but dishonest about it. Since I'm not stinking loaded, if a girl wanted to go to a top line place on a first date she can look elsewhere. That kind of thing would be for special dinners, not "hey let's get to know each other".

[Nightbat®]

It's 2014, they've been able to pay for themselves for close to a quarter of a century now

...and while they're at it, they can hold the door for me for a change

[-hireshi]

I have felt that a few times, but it also turned out, that the person I was dating felt the same about me.