2008-05-10, 19:22 | Link #621 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I think that if there's no choice.. lets say you have to acquire the bio-weapon.. the choice of experimenting on random nobodys for the benefit of your people, is better than experimenting on your own people. Like if you had to choose one random person to die. If you chose your mother, you deserve to rot in the undersides of Hell.
Its a govenment's responsibility to keep its own people safe and happy first and foremost, not other people. |
2008-05-10, 19:54 | Link #622 | |||||||||
Transient Guest
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
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1) uh huh. sure. 2) Yagi expanded the world precisely to make the MiBs bad and make Miria's goals possible. 3) I haven't? If you say so. 4) Is that what passes for teaching in history class now-a-days? Good grief! 5) You seriously think that Clare was tempted to accept? I don't. Quote:
Strange though - these good people (who were unfortunatly way too weak) - were trying to solve their problem by killing, not by peace treaty or negotiations, huh? Quote:
What made you get on the subject of nukes though anyways? I sure didn't bring them up. It's not like DoDs can be compared to them - all indications are that DoDs are sentient and thus know how to selectively target. Quote:
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"but one of the powers appears to control and made allies(nakama) with a hard skinned nomadic race known as the Descendants of Dragons." Earlier on Miria says the big continent is made up of many people and many races. Somehow I got the impression that continent was one where elves, dwarves, fairies and countless other supernatural creatures exist (Irene/Ophelia's elf ears for example I guess are a result from that). In that context, the image in my mind associated with the DoDs becomes more inline with Dragon Quest (8 in particular) rather than the European tales of knights slaying princess eating dragons that I heard growing up. Remember, Yagi is Japanese, and so I wouldn't be surprised if he took the wise old sages route with the DoDs as dragons seem to be more respected in japan than in Europe. Quote:
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- wars are generally caused when 2 countries/powers have a disagreement where diplomancy FAILS and where compromise is not possible in either's eyes. - war starts. - The purpose of war is to kill people and break things until the other side cries uncle and can't take it anymore and agrees to terms of surrender it would have thought unacceptable before the war. - the old saying "all's fair in love and war" has more than a grain of truth to it. - Lasting peace is achieved only after military victory (i.e. the other side surrenders). Attempts to broker peace before victory is achieved through diplomancy typically result in no more than temporary cease fires that give the losing side enough time to re-arm and re-group. I'm guessing you're already hitting reply to address these last 3 points which you think are very objectionable or downright wrong. Don't bother coming out with the "you approve of x?" argument. It's not about approving or disapproving, it's simply the way it is. War, as defined above, leads to some pretty stomach turning and horrible consequences, but that's what war is. Barbaric, violent, destructive, and deadly. It's why war sucks and should be avoided whenever possible and peace should be valued. Quote:
It took Country C 100 years to notice they were under attack, but once they know, I expect some reaction from them. |
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2008-05-10, 20:57 | Link #623 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Side B: We refuse. Side A: Then you leave us no choice but to resort to force. Know that you are responsible for the suffering and deaths of your people... :P Just joking there. --- Hmmm... on further consideration, I find nothing wrong with the Ghost 7 destroying the people who oppressed the people of this island, and often with their creations caused the deaths of the Claymores' friends and families. The right course of action really depends on what side you're on. The greater scheme of things can always be thought about later(unless the country that created the Org gets pissed and sends in the big guns) |
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2008-05-10, 21:28 | Link #624 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: European Union
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<Cyclone...
...ok lets call a truce and make a summary about our discussions... ...don't wory Cyclone i'm not say that you are wrong about wars...and sorry for putting words in your mouth... In fact i have took two scans and they are different in translation...maybe there are more and better versions of translation on the net...i just took this ones for good...i don't know japanese... So we both agree that the MiBs are evil and must be defeated. We are both on Miria's side. Our disagreements are about MiBs lifes and what side should Miria choose and how peace can be reached : You think that the MiBs must be killed first as fast as Miria can do it and even side with the DODs and fight vs Human Side 1 and win.Right? I think that Miria should go at least for Isley+Priscilla first, and then after victory over them against the ORG and don't kill them but use them in order to protect The Island as much as she can.They have knowledge about everything in the first place.You will kill such "treasure"? Lets say that the MiBs will burn their archives...they maybe.Miria will now know nothing about the World.INTEL is very important in wars. I don't really care witch one she side with as long as The Island is safe.Is The Island our side after all no?But The Human Side (1) will attack without doubt, this experiment is theirs after all.They don't want to lose it because they need them against : The Human Side (2)+DOD (if this is the true after all from your translation). Miria just know to little about both sides in order to choose right now.We also. You say that Yagi is japanese but all Claymore setup is western based, so i took the conclusion that the DODs are evil.Yagi only know if the dragons on Human Side 2 are good or evil, we just think one way or another. Is just that Riful and Isley (+Priscilla) are smart and you are ignoring them completly.They are 1+1+2(Pris)=4 AO.They will know that they are in danger after The ORG defeat.What they will do?How the others AB will react?The ones in the north joined forces.Maybe Isley, Riful and Priscilla will join forces to defeat Miria's New Organisation.You think that Miria should make peace with them?I doubt this.So they will be in danger.Some of them may even go crazy like Agatha.How many claymores will Miria will have at that time in order to protect the island? In the end Miria (in fact Yagi) will decide about this.So in the end we will know.I will not be mad at Yagi if he choose your version over mine or another version of events rather than this ones. |
2008-05-10, 21:49 | Link #625 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: fukuoka
Age: 38
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They restored my partial translation actually...but its like ten pages back now
"but one force took a non-human race, with extremely tough skin, who are actually called the descendants of dragons, into their allies" is what I thought it meant at first, then I thought "...you could almost say they are descended from dragons..." was better...but looking at it again, I think what it really says is "but one force took a non-human race into their allies, with such hard, tough skin that they could be said to have descended from dragons." Pretty much, theres no dragons, these guys are just really really tough. Hence the need for indestructible swords. ps: n00ks and anthrax are a bit extreme Last edited by ergon; 2008-05-10 at 23:18. |
2008-05-10, 22:03 | Link #626 |
'S' Class Fairy Tail
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I'm glad they put it back Ergon. . I gave the mods a hard time about it (and even made my own thread for it here) because I really appreciated the work you put into it for sharing a better translation with the forum. I think having a good translation really is essential in order to have a decent conversation about Claymore because little things are so important in this series. In other series it would not matter as much because things get made up all the time with little or no relevance to future events. Good thing the mods can be reasonable.
Nukes and anthrax would be an extreme example unless the nukes and antrhax can cuddle with raki like Priscilla does! The WMD's in claymore are mostly chicks with the exception of Isley. Claymore has many Women of Mass Destruction.
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2008-05-10, 22:32 | Link #627 | |
Observer/Bookman wannabe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
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2008-05-10, 23:27 | Link #628 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
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just remembered raki.... i wonder what has happened to him... it's been seven years. hope she's not a crybaby anymore. i think he would be around 17 yrs old already? It would be cool if isley turns him into an AB. Then Clare would have to kill him.. hahha
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2008-05-11, 00:03 | Link #629 | ||||||
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
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It's not that I don't see the youma as problem - I do. The fact is though, that I think the Org is a bigger problem because they are feeding it. They make youma as fast or faster as Claymores can kill them, and each new Claymore they make is a new victim and a potential risk to awaken. In short, until the Organization is stopped the problem cannot be contained. Once the organization is stopped, youma can presumably be hunted out of existance. Not possible with the organization around. Once there are no more youma, you can try going after Awaken Beings, and well, Clare and company die in that attempt, then at least we'll have only a handful of ABs roaming around like a natural disaster, rather than ABs, youma, and the Organization too. As for the Organization being a tressure trove of information, it is - but the cost of having this information (i.e. having the Organization continue in their activities) is way too high for me to bear. Besides, it's not like they can't capture one or two of the MiBs and forcefully persuade them As for the DoD side - well, we don't know enough, but it's possible they don't know about the Claymore Island - else they would have probably attacked it already. Quote:
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2008-05-11, 00:25 | Link #630 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
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(Oh well - there goes any reason for joking about Galatea's wrists...) about that line in particular though: "だがその一方の勢力がまるで龍の末裔とも言われるような強固な外皮を持つ人外の種族を仲間に引き 入れ" 人外 - absence of human habitation (or breech of morals; inhuman treatment) 種族 - race/tribe/species Does that mean that the DoDs are a race from some unpopulated area, that they have no area of their own (are nomads), or what exactly? Or am I misreading that entirely (or should I be reading 人外 as simply it's parts [ouside (of) humans] instead)? |
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2008-05-11, 00:26 | Link #631 |
Former # 47
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the forgotten past
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You know, lately it seems that a lot of people here are really getting apprehinsive about Miria's plan. Some people think she's rushing into this. Some people have even instigated that she was as bad as Clare. I would have to disagree with this.
We've got to remeber that Miria has been thinking and formulating for seven years now. What's more , Miria has just began reveling what she knows. She hasn't even told us here plan. I think were jumping the gun here when we say that Mria is acting recklessly because she hasn't even reacted yet ,nor told us what exactly does she plan to do. And we can't even say that the Org. is the big evil yet either because we don't even know what the DoD has been doing either. While this should probably go under the Raki thread, I was thinking Cid and Gulk might have seen Raki. He has been gone for such a long time it feels like he missed half of the manga already. Oh and might I add, congrats. Ancient soul on that major debate you just survied! It's like a right of passage here.
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2008-05-11, 00:44 | Link #632 | |
Claymore #01
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maldives
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I do appreciate the offer, but I'm not one of those who thinks that shes rushing into anything and above all, why should anyone get apprehensive about her or her plan. |
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2008-05-11, 02:16 | Link #633 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: fukuoka
Age: 38
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It looks like we use the same dictionary heh. I actually didn't look up that word, I just assumed it meant "non-human". Pretty sure thats it. Last edited by ergon; 2008-05-11 at 20:57. |
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2008-05-11, 09:42 | Link #635 | |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada, but sometimes in La La-Land hanging out with Midori-chan89
Age: 35
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2008-05-11, 14:14 | Link #636 | |
Transient Guest
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
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http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BA%BA%E5%A4%96 Again, as best I can make out - the site is in japanese afterall - the second point says that 人外 means: it's an archaic term for a beast or youkai. A vague term in literature subculture which includes beast men or sub-humans(?). Did I get that right? So it looks like the DoDs are some kind of beastmen? |
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2008-05-11, 14:26 | Link #637 |
'S' Class Fairy Tail
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Beastman!?! My insane theory of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann makes even more sense now!
Spoiler for Gurren Lagann Beastman:
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