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sikvod00 · 2011-08-22, 18:10

So is France really a more patriarchal society than Japan during this time period, as was implied by this episode? Or is Alice's fangirling of Japan merely a "grass is greener" mentality?

Zakoo · 2011-08-22, 18:15

Hmm, well yeah, it was only with the World Wars that women began their "emancipation" since men were sent on the front.

I must have said it before, but they were considered as commodities, only useful for marriage and money trade, rich familiy breeding with others rich families to not lose any money.

Bird cage heh ... Paris was indeed a city for women, but it was exactly like Versailles: a golden prison ... without the golden.

Chaos2Frozen · 2011-08-22, 18:30

Hmm the atmosphere in the anime is alot less tense than it was when I read the chapter... Amazingly they could drag this one chapter out to two episodes

I would imagine they flesh out more of Camille and Claude background next episode... Don't know how it feel about that- it's depressing enough as it is...

That said, it looks like everyone and their grandpa knows about Claude's childhood exploits with Camille

Hmm... At the rate this is going... Yeah, I can pretty much guess what the last story would be for this season... That big thing that happen at that big place....

Flower · 2011-08-22, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

....Hmm... At the rate this is going... Yeah, I can pretty much guess what the last story would be for this season... That big thing that happen at that big place....

Shhhh!

sikvod00 · 2011-08-22, 18:42

Hmm. I get the feeling that Camile is not only jealous of Yune--for how close she is to Claude--but also of Alice. This episode made quite clear that Alice has a free spirit and is not willing to let French society dictate her entire life; at least not without a fight and some rope to climb out of buildings. Her love of everything Japanese apparently represents part of this freedom. Camile on the other hand has apparently given up such aspirations (Claude?).

Chaos2Frozen · 2011-08-22, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flower

Shhhh!

BUT BUT! THAT THING! THAT THING IS-

!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sikvod00

Hmm. I get the feeling that Camile is not only jealous of Yune--for how close she is to Claude--but also of Alice. This episode made quite clear that Alice has a free spirit and is not willing to let French society dictate her entire life; at least not without a fight and some rope to climb out of buildings. Her love of everything Japanese apparently represents part of this freedom. Camile on the other hand has apparently given up such aspirations (Claude?).

I get the feeling Alice is only able to enjoy such freedom with relatively little resistance because Camile had taken it upon herself to bear all the responsibilities of a noblewoman.

That said, I don't think that she's particular jealous of Alice, but rather she's doing all this so that her sister doesn't have to.

RegalStar · 2011-08-22, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by sikvod00

So is France really a more patriarchal society than Japan during this time period, as was implied by this episode? Or is Alice's fangirling of Japan merely a "grass is greener" mentality?

I'm pretty sure that Kaguya-hime is the exception, not the norm.

kk2extreme · 2011-08-22, 21:09

We got the sick Yune, can we get a tsundere Yune next?

Chaos2Frozen · 2011-08-22, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by kk2extreme

We got the sick Yune, can we get a tsundere Yune next?

I don't think they exist yet in the 19th century...

Master_Yoma · 2011-08-22, 21:59

Great episode but I wounder what happened between Camile and Claude

Yune look so cute in that dress

Kismet-chan · 2011-08-23, 00:26

I loved the ending song for this episode. I'm guessing that's Camille's character song?

Also, when Camille was being so stern towards Claude and scolded Yune for her ways, I found myself slightly pissed at her for that. I wonder what made her that way? I need to know what happened between her and Claude NOW! @_@

calorie · 2011-08-23, 01:59

Hmm, a good episode, but nothing special.

At this point the whole Claude - Camille angst is getting a tad annoying, in the way that it detracts the spotlight from Yune. I'm just hoping that all this 'building up' will be worth it and that this story will somehow contribute to this slice-of-life anime.

Oh and I liked Yune better in that big dress, thought she looked cuter that way.

FlareKnight · 2011-08-23, 02:42

Definitely a good episode with Camille here. Really got to see her perspective a bit more and how complicated things are for her. There just isn't any warmth that you could see in the flashbacks when those two were in the same room. Shots being taken at each other a bit there though maybe more from Camille.

Seems we'll get some definite answers though can get a fairly good idea about what happened already. Camille gave into her position and took on the role that she was expected to. Maybe in part to protect Alice from having to do all that. Either way the basic class difference between them had to be the major point.

A really good episode for Alice I thought. Showing off even more of her good points here. Exchanging the stories was a fun thing too. Alice definitely is at odds with the beliefs of her society and really dislikes the roles of women in the western fairy tales.

Some nice moments from Yune too. Able to turn things after Camille was really letting her darker side out. Funny how both thought the same about Claude there, but Yune could laugh about it

. Can understand Camille feeling some jealousy.

scr · 2011-08-23, 02:52

Claude-Camille seems forced. They seems to be constantly irritating each others, what's there to like? Also, damn, Claude is the most principally stuck-up fictional guy I've ever seen in my life. Swallow some pride and think of Yune, he will not.

On the other hand, I'm kind of surprised about this sudden emancipation thing. The part where Camille tells Yune how it's pointless to base her life based on Claude's opinion. I feel something DEEP about that.

Chaos2Frozen · 2011-08-23, 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by calorie

At this point the whole Claude - Camille angst is getting a tad annoying, in the way that it detracts the spotlight from Yune.

What's wrong with focusing on some other characters than Yune, which we already have 5-7 episodes about her give or take

Quote:

Originally Posted by scr

Claude-Camille seems forced. They seems to be constantly irritating each others, what's there to like?

Angry sex?

Marcus H. · 2011-08-23, 03:05

Quote:

Angry sex?

That's quite ironic, but I think I can imagine what would happen.

Okay, Chaos2, I think we got a whiff of Mr.Kyon's Holy Crack.

Guardian Enzo · 2011-08-23, 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by scr

Claude-Camille seems forced. They seems to be constantly irritating each others, what's there to like? Also, damn, Claude is the most principally stuck-up fictional guy I've ever seen in my life. Swallow some pride and think of Yune, he will not.

On the other hand, I'm kind of surprised about this sudden emancipation thing. The part where Camille tells Yune how it's pointless to base her life based on Claude's opinion. I feel something DEEP about that.

They may be irritating each other now, but it might not have always been that way (in fact, we know it wasn't). And even so, just because two people get on each other's nerves that doesn't mean they aren't mutually attracted.

I sort of took Camille's comment to Yune slightly differently. I don't think it was much from the perspective of not trying to live up to Claude's expectations on principle - I took it more as her telling Yune that Claude wasn't the sort of guy who would be impressed by that kind of thing, so don't bother.

Chaos2Frozen · 2011-08-23, 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

They may be irritating each other now, but it might not have always been that way (in fact, we know it wasn't). And even so, just because two people get on each other's nerves that doesn't mean they aren't mutually attracted.

Yup, Angry Sex.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

That's quite ironic, but I think I can imagine what would happen.

Okay, Chaos2, I think we got a whiff of Mr.Kyon's Holy Crack.

What do you mean crack?! This would totally work!

The servants were even considerate to prepare a room with a big enough table so when tensions run high and things get heated, Claude and Camille have plenty of room to french it up.

calorie · 2011-08-23, 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

What's wrong with focusing on some other characters than Yune, which we already have 5-7 episodes about her give or take

What's wrong is that it isn't entertaining me; I tend to see Ikoku Meiro as the more fun (but just as relaxing) version of ARIA with more focus on Japanese culture, and making one extremely likable, strong character (Yune) instead of several mediocre ones. So I hope this 19th century social analysis through Camille and Claude won't be taking much more screen space in the attempt to make this already great slice-of-life something more pretentious but also more boring. And it seems like the next episode is again heading in that direction.

This was still just a minor remark on my part, I nonetheless enjoyed this episode too, was just sharing my thoughts, that's all.

Chaos2Frozen · 2011-08-23, 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by calorie

What's wrong is that it isn't entertaining me; I tend to see Ikoku Meiro as the more fun version of ARIA with more focus on Japanese culture, and making one extremely likable, strong character (Yune) instead of several mediocre ones. So I hope this 19th century social analysis through Camille and Claude won't be taking much more screen space in the attempt to make this already great slice-of-life something more pretentious but also more boring. And it seems like the next episode is again heading in that direction.

This was still just a minor remark on my part, I nonetheless enjoyed this episode as well, was just sharing my thoughts, that's all.

No matter how good one character is, eventually even Yune would become boring if you don't switch things around once in awhile especially with such a simple story, and I certainly don't see the side characters as 'mediocre', they played their individual roles pretty well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calorie

This was still just a minor remark on my part, I nonetheless enjoyed this episode too, was just sharing my thoughts, that's all.

Fair enough.

2011-08-22, 18:30	Link #563
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Hmm the atmosphere in the anime is alot less tense than it was when I read the chapter... Amazingly they could drag this one chapter out to two episodes I would imagine they flesh out more of Camille and Claude background next episode... Don't know how it feel about that- it's depressing enough as it is... That said, it looks like everyone and their grandpa knows about Claude's childhood exploits with Camille Hmm... At the rate this is going... Yeah, I can pretty much guess what the last story would be for this season... That *big thing* that happen at that *big place*.... __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2011-08-22, 21:59	Link #570
Master_Yoma Nekokota Festival Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lost in the Fairy Forest	Great episode but I wounder what happened between Camile and Claude Yune look so cute in that dress __________________

2011-08-23, 02:42	Link #573
FlareKnight User of the "Fast Draw" Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada	Definitely a good episode with Camille here. Really got to see her perspective a bit more and how complicated things are for her. There just isn't any warmth that you could see in the flashbacks when those two were in the same room. Shots being taken at each other a bit there though maybe more from Camille. Seems we'll get some definite answers though can get a fairly good idea about what happened already. Camille gave into her position and took on the role that she was expected to. Maybe in part to protect Alice from having to do all that. Either way the basic class difference between them had to be the major point. A really good episode for Alice I thought. Showing off even more of her good points here. Exchanging the stories was a fun thing too. Alice definitely is at odds with the beliefs of her society and really dislikes the roles of women in the western fairy tales. Some nice moments from Yune too. Able to turn things after Camille was really letting her darker side out. Funny how both thought the same about Claude there, but Yune could laugh about it . Can understand Camille feeling some jealousy. __________________ Anime-Evo

2011-08-23, 02:52	Link #574
scr my sides are in orbit Join Date: Nov 2007	Claude-Camille seems forced. They seems to be constantly irritating each others, what's there to like? Also, damn, Claude is the most principally stuck-up fictional guy I've ever seen in my life. Swallow some pride and think of Yune, he will not. On the other hand, I'm kind of surprised about this sudden emancipation thing. The part where Camille tells Yune how it's pointless to base her life based on Claude's opinion. I feel something DEEP about that. __________________ If there's a Final Fantasy game that I must put my personal seal of disapproval on, it's Crisis Core. I mean, just look at how this Genesis Rhapsodos dude is raping the canon. It's bad. As in, fanfiction bad.

2011-08-22, 18:10	Link #561
sikvod00 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Miami, FL Age: 37	So is France really a more patriarchal society than Japan during this time period, as was implied by this episode? Or is Alice's fangirling of Japan merely a "grass is greener" mentality?

2011-08-22, 18:15	Link #562
Zakoo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Gensokyo	Hmm, well yeah, it was only with the World Wars that women began their "emancipation" since men were sent on the front. I must have said it before, but they were considered as commodities, only useful for marriage and money trade, rich familiy breeding with others rich families to not lose any money. Bird cage heh ... Paris was indeed a city for women, but it was exactly like Versailles: a golden prison ... without the golden.

2011-08-22, 18:42	Link #565
sikvod00 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Miami, FL Age: 37	Hmm. I get the feeling that Camile is not only jealous of Yune--for how close she is to Claude--but also of Alice. This episode made quite clear that Alice has a free spirit and is not willing to let French society dictate her entire life; at least not without a fight and some rope to climb out of buildings. Her love of everything Japanese apparently represents part of this freedom. Camile on the other hand has apparently given up such aspirations (Claude?).

2011-08-22, 21:09	Link #568
kk2extreme Your wife is hot... Join Date: May 2008 Location: At your house fixing A/C	We got the sick Yune, can we get a tsundere Yune next?

2011-08-23, 00:26	Link #571
Kismet-chan The Chaotic Dreamer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In a cruel yet beautiful world Age: 32	I loved the ending song for this episode. I'm guessing that's Camille's character song? Also, when Camille was being so stern towards Claude and scolded Yune for her ways, I found myself slightly pissed at her for that. I wonder what made her that way? I need to know what happened between her and Claude NOW! @_@

2011-08-23, 01:59	Link #572
calorie Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tannhäuser Gate Age: 35	Hmm, a good episode, but nothing special. At this point the whole Claude - Camille angst is getting a tad annoying, in the way that it detracts the spotlight from Yune. I'm just hoping that all this 'building up' will be worth it and that this story will somehow contribute to this slice-of-life anime. Oh and I liked Yune better in that big dress, thought she looked cuter that way.