Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[monster]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

"Just"?

What?

To me it is too much for the characters whose deaths had so much emotional impacts on the protagonists, as well as on the viewers.

Well, you did say "too many," which indicated there is a certain threshold under which it wouldn't be too many. That's why I pointed out it only happened once (or twice at most).

Besides, it doesn't really change the impact of the death. So while I prefer it didn't happen, it wasn't that big of a deal to me.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by monstert

What? Well, you did say "too many," which indicated there is a certain threshold under which it wouldn't be too many. That's why I pointed out it only happened once (or twice at most).

Besides, it doesn't really change the impact of the death. So while I prefer it didn't happen, it wasn't that big of a deal to me.

Read more carefully. I said "too much" as in too much to bear. Not too many as in estimating quantity. And yeah, if u are at that it happened twice in my book.

[luffyDking]

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

ai KLAC-rum ba really why don't we just do a ANIME NEXUS on the sunrise/bandai to get the GS movie & 3rd GS season.

really IF this keep maybe KLAC would do something about it.

I hate kira and lacus together sorry.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

Read more carefully. I said "too much" as in too much to bear. Not too many as in estimating quantity. And yeah, if u are at that it happened twice in my book.

No, I was referring to:

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

Too many sudden ressurections

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by monstert

No, I was referring to:

Still, two is too much. One is too much. Any unnecessary or badly carried-out ressurection is too much to me.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

Still, two is too much. One is too much. Any unnecessary or badly carried-out ressurection is too much to me.

So what does that have two do with you disliking the old cast? It could've happened to anyone, old or new. Besides, it's not like they were confirmed dead in the first place. So there was no resurrection at all.

[Rising Dragon]

Well, Mu was definitely confirmed dead, what with the shattered helmet and such; it doesn't really get more confirmed than that.

Andrew's death was far more open for the allowance of a survival, and I'm glad he didn't come out unscathed. Fukuda did confirm that Andrew WAS going to die, but popularity brought him back. I think Andrew's "resurrection" worked out for the better, what with Kira and his later meeting. Mu's resurrection was too much of an asspull, especially without they blatantly retconned it.

[Kusa-San]

Mwu ressurection was one of the worst thing that happened in GSD. His death in GS was a great and emotional moment and all of that has been ruined by GSD. Futhermore, It would have been way more interesting to have a relationship betaeen Murrue and Andrew in GSD than the come back of Mwu.

Oh yeah, I highly belive at the beginning Neo was not meant to be Mwu but a clone of him and that Andrew and Murrue relationship was planned by the staff.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Well, Mu was definitely confirmed dead, what with the shattered helmet and such; it doesn't really get more confirmed than that.

Fair enough, though I thought they retconned that prior to GSD. But more importantly, I meant it wasn't confirmed within the story.

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

Mwu ressurection was one of the worst thing that happened in GSD. His death in GS was a great and emotional moment and all of that has been ruined by GSD.

I thought the same way years ago. But now I've come to accept it as the fact that Mwu survived didn't change his willingness to sacrifice himself and his accomplishment in saving Archangel.

Mind you, I still would've preferred they didn't do it. I just don't think it's as bad as people made it out to be. And it's certainly no reason to hate the old cast.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Fukuda did confirm that Andrew WAS going to die, but popularity brought him back.

Actually IIRC it wasn't popularity that brought him back, but the utter lack of "cool adults" in the show that did. And maybe his voice actor.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by brightman

Actually IIRC it wasn't popularity that brought him back, but the utter lack of "cool adults" in the show that did. And maybe his voice actor.

You're also forgetting that the Lacus Dusttm brought back Andrew, as well as Mu.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by monstert

So what does that have two do with you disliking the old cast? It could've happened to anyone, old or new. Besides, it's not like they were confirmed dead in the first place. So there was no resurrection at all.

It's one of a couple reasons I mentioned before. It's as I said. Pretty much everybody from the old cast lost in my eyes in Destiny. It deasn't mean I hate them. It means I like them less. Less enough for me to prefer Shinn over Destiny Kira and (that for sure) Destiny Athrun.

[winter45]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

It's one of a couple reasons I mentioned before. It's as I said. Pretty much everybody from the old cast lost in my eyes in Destiny. It deasn't mean I hate them. It means I like them less. Less enough for me to prefer Shinn over Destiny Kira and (that for sure) Destiny Athrun.

Ouch!!! My god... i never expect to read those words from you....

I feel ya dude.. as much as i dislike lacus, kira and athrun, the characters felt pretty much flat compared to seed.. Except athrun who in my eyes was just a bad mentor and didnt have the life experience to put himself in his mentor position for shinn. (which in a way made athrun feel more dynamic over kira in Destiny)

[luffyDking]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Well, Mu was definitely confirmed dead, what with the shattered helmet and such; it doesn't really get more confirmed than that.

Andrew's death was far more open for the allowance of a survival, and I'm glad he didn't come out unscathed. Fukuda did confirm that Andrew WAS going to die, but popularity brought him back. I think Andrew's "resurrection" worked out for the better, what with Kira and his later meeting. Mu's resurrection was too much of an asspull, especially without they blatantly retconned it.

The movie compilations from the first series showed at the end where his helmet was cracked, that they had removed it. You can call it what you want, but I really could not say anything bad about it, I saw why they did it.

It felt like Sleggar Law all over again with mirai, marue would have went off and been with someone else. At leas they saved face and did not let Mwu and Marue be a homage to those two and what happened.

[luffyDking]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

It's one of a couple reasons I mentioned before. It's as I said. Pretty much everybody from the old cast lost in my eyes in Destiny. It deasn't mean I hate them. It means I like them less. Less enough for me to prefer Shinn over Destiny Kira and (that for sure) Destiny Athrun.

Shin was pathetic in Destiny, do not blame them having to bring back a character to save him. It was their intention from the beginning to have Kira back, why not bring him back? Amuro was in Zeta? Kira is in Destiny...? is it going to hurt or suck that much? He was the main character of destiny. Where ever I go I see they look at gundam seed as a whole.

"prologue: Kira is a tech student balh blah blaju blah blah join us and face new fights and freedom in the newest series since gundam (what ever) gundam seed. On sites you see the same info under destiny."


Who cares about shin and the new people, if it was not for the old cast all would have been lost.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by winter45

Ouch!!! My god... i never expect to read those words from you....

I feel ya dude.. as much as i dislike lacus, kira and athrun, the characters felt pretty much flat compared to seed.. Except athrun who in my eyes was just a bad mentor and didnt have the life experience to put himself in his mentor position for shinn. (which in a way made athrun feel more dynamic over kira in Destiny)

Of course, it doesn't change the fact that I actually liked the show. But it was after I rewatched it in Special Edition that I learned to fully appreciate it as they skipped through the story and improved the dynamics of the script.

luffyDking - so u love the old cast and its performance in Destiny and that's why u jump to such quick conclusions. That's understandable. And of course you totally miss my point. That's also understandable considering the fact that you don't know me at all. 'Tis funny how most UC fans on this forum know me better than many of my fellow SEED fans

[monster]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

It's one of a couple reasons I mentioned before. It's as I said. Pretty much everybody from the old cast lost in my eyes in Destiny. It deasn't mean I hate them. It means I like them less. Less enough for me to prefer Shinn over Destiny Kira and (that for sure) Destiny Athrun.

I just find it irritating that someone would lump a group of characters and blame them for reasons that do not apply to all the people in the group. You mentioned sudden resurrections, lack of ideas, stupid deaths, and undecisiveness as reasons to not like the old casts as much.

-Well, I can see Cagalli and Athrun as being indecisive, although they both got over that as the series progress.

-I give you Mwu for being resurrected, although like I said before, it was never confirmed within the story that he died. Andrew's resurrection, if it counts for you, happened in GS. So I don't count that when talking about GSD.

-Lack of ideas would be the fault of the author(s) of the story, not any character. And that affects the whole story, not just certain characters.

-None of the old casts had a stupid death in GSD. In fact, I don't consider any of the casts (old and new) had a stupid death.

So I don't see how those are valid reasons against the old casts as a group. Don't get me wrong, it's fine if Shinn is your favorite character in GSD. I've just seen too many people attacking the old casts as a group for seemingly being the main/only reason for GSD's failure (if it is even a failure). I guess I just get a bit defensive over the years.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by monstert

I just find it irritating that someone would lump a group of characters and blame them for reasons that do not apply to all the people in the group. You mentioned sudden resurrections, lack of ideas, stupid deaths, and undecisiveness as reasons to not like the old casts as much.

-Well, I can see Cagalli and Athrun as being indecisive, although they both got over that as the series progress.

-I give you Mwu for being resurrected, although like I said before, it was never confirmed within the story that he died. Andrew's resurrection, if it counts for you, happened in GS. So I don't count that when talking about GSD.

-Lack of ideas would be the fault of the author(s) of the story, not any character. And that affects the whole story, not just certain characters.

-None of the old casts had a stupid death in GSD. In fact, I don't consider any of the casts (old and new) had a stupid death.

So I don't see how those are valid reasons against the old casts as a group. Don't get me wrong, it's fine if Shinn is your favorite character in GSD. I've just seen too many people attacking the old casts as a group for seemingly being the main/only reason for GSD's failure (if it is even a failure). I guess I just get a bit defensive over the years.

Everything you mentioned was a matter of taste. Most of the storylines in Destiny, especially those involving the old cast were carried out poorly to me. Or at least not in the impressive way I expected it to be. Shinn ended up the only main character that seemed interesting to me. As for the old cast, one can see that I am picky and wary not to throw them in one bag. I am still a fanboy of Dearka and Yzak after all.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

Everything you mentioned was a matter of taste.

Everything? Let's take the last point: stupid death. Which of the old casts do you blame for this?

Most of the storylines in Destiny, especially those involving the old cast were carried out poorly to me. Or at least not in the impressive way I expected it to be.

All of the story lines in GSD involve at least one old cast and one new cast. So I don't see what your point is.

Shinn ended up the only main character that seemed interesting to me.

Like I said, that's fine. I just took offense when you compared him specifically against the old casts, instead of the overall GSD casts.

As for the old cast, one can see that I am picky and wary not to throw them in one bag. I am still a fanboy of Dearka and Yzak after all.

Neither Yzak nor Dearka had a story line of his own in GSD. So if that's your way of being wary not to throw all the old casts in one bag...

[Sir Dearka]

monstert - you tend to complicate things, y know?

Spoiler for spoilers about deaths:

Heine's death was stupid to me. Sting's death was stupid to me. Rey's death was stupid to me. And Sting and Rey here were very promising characters, that's why I hated it so much. In SEED everything seemd soo in place. Even Miguel's demise at the very beginning or some Rusty's death. Whilst in Destiny it seemed somehow rush. i don't know if it was the original intention of the creators but it seemed to me so. And hence it SEEMED, it is quite a subjective thing, right? And taste IS subjective.

As for the storylines, yeah... Every storyline was badly flowed because to me the old cast was misused in them. Sorry not to give arguments for that, but everything ultimately is cut off by my sense of taste, so if you expect to have a more detailed discussion, sorry.. I have no desire to participate in one