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View Poll Results: True Tears - Episode 12 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 46 | 35.11% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 41 | 31.30% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 16 | 12.21% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 12 | 9.16% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 2 | 1.53% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 0.76% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 3 | 2.29% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 2 | 1.53% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 1 | 0.76% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 7 | 5.34% | |
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll |
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2008-03-25, 12:14 | Link #201 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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The idea that because the characters lack communication, everything becomes more unrealistic is silly. I must have a pretty weird life then because people around me don't speak their mind like so. Like recently I've been having a hard time at a job, then it got to a point of ridiculousness that I brought up troubles to my boss and a whole dramatic meeting took place for like the next 30 minutes. Maybe you people are way more open, but thoughts and feelings are transmitted between humans usually by subtle clues. I don't know, maybe I have a weird life! But I'll leave it as your opinion.
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2008-03-25, 12:31 | Link #202 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Shin isn't even dropping "subtle hints." Like he said absolutely nothing to Hiromi before running off to find Noe at the end of episode 12. Sure that can easily be chalked up in many ways, but at this point it just looks like the writers sacrificing realism for more drama. I'm not buying that small ambiguous hints are a substitute for subtle hints that imply choices. You continue to take the extreme view of what we expect. We expect subtle hints, not a broad answering of all the questions. No one is expecting Shin to "speak his mind" to Hiromi before running off to Noe at the end of 12. We want a small degree of answers to Noe and Hiromi at various points, not him keeping everything close to vest for no other reason than to drive up the drama. If he made his choice at the dance then certainly we should be fair in expecting him to drop a hint to Hiromi as he runs to Noe. Shin should be dropping the subtle hints to let people know what's going on at the end of episode 12..., that's the point we've been trying to make. |
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2008-03-25, 12:48 | Link #203 |
Shinsengumi captain
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the world of DeathGods
Age: 32
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LOL are you guys also expecting the same end as School days? -_-
(Damn you Jun, sick bastard O__O What the hell r you thinking? :O ) P.S.: Can i say that word: bastard, here on this forum? Cuz i kinda dunno xD Just to make sure |
2008-03-25, 12:55 | Link #204 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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He hasn't even had an opportunity to speak to Noe after his closet fiasco, hence why he's chasing after her to sort out his feelings. Ok, perhaps if he was thinking clearly he would've let Hiromi know kind of what's on his mind. But from what I could garner from his mind in this episode, he is starting to get a little warped in his thoughts and doesn't know exactly what he is doing anymore. This was kind of portrayed by the scene of him sitting at the stand with Nobuse where he states "what am I doing?." Still I think Hiromi understood what's going on when he kept telling her in a guilty way, "I have to go now." It's not like she doesn't know, why would she be getting sad and saying "don't leave me" if that was the case? Or do you think she is assuming too much because Shinchiro doesn't let her know in a clearer way? I understand you don't expect him to actually speak his mind to everyone, but give a reasonable statement of what Shinchiro could've said to HIromi in that little two minutes he had when he is trying to chase after Noe...
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2008-03-25, 13:19 | Link #205 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Right after Hiromi says that she told Noe to leave them alone and that they're together; Shin says to the effect that its okay that Hiromi told that stuff to Noe and then he just says he has to go to the closing celebration. Right there, if he really had made his decision before that, he could have either said "You shouldn't have told her that" or "That's not how we are" a small statement disagreeing if he had really made a decision that opposes what she said. Instead he just goes along with it and then fakes to go off to celebrate. If he was choosing her then possibly he could have indicated it by not abandoning her or something like "I'll go and talk to Noe, wait for (or "believe in") me" since he'd want to go and make sure Noe can deal with it. I don't know that scene was just extremely frustrating to me more than any of Shin's actions prior to that because it seemed like he made some kind of decision during the dance, so I thought that he would finally start doing things properly at that point and yet it still wasn't meant to be... I really think that he missed the last chance to finally be proactive (since he had finally made some kind of decision) and again he has to wait until another drastic Noe action (at the end of 12 just like at 11) to finally go through with it. Maybe that's my gripe with it and compared with Jun coming clean as well as Hiromi's actions over the past 3 episodes, I have to think Hiromi and Jun are the only ones who have done things properly after facing up to their feelings. Noe's trying as best she can to deal with all of these new emotions to her so I give her far more leeway for not being able to emotionally handle all of this. Either way, losing his last and perhaps only chance to truly be proactive (in my mind) is a total disappointment to me despite how much I like this series. I've given you three 1-liners that Shin could have used to indicate what his feelings were after seeing Noe in his eyes during the dance and making the "decision", and I think I'm safe in saying that it would reasonable to expect something like this from a character who's struggled to be proactive through his doubt but has reached some position of clarity. Last edited by vio5555; 2008-03-25 at 13:39. |
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2008-03-25, 13:41 | Link #206 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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All right, as Deathkillz put it "he fcked up", and I'll agree with you. We both probably were watching that scene with different anticipations. You expected Shinchiro to finally step up, I expected him to be his usual self. So I can understand your disappointment with it. The writers were clearly trying to show that he was going to change, but he so far hasn't really done anything too different. But I am expecting him to finally make these changes next episode, if the girls do everything for him then I'll actually be disappointed like you are this episode.
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2008-03-25, 14:41 | Link #207 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 38
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I have too much free time and was rewatching ep 8, then 12. It got me thinking. I think everyone here has agreed that Noe is going to get her tears back next episode, the question is just how? From heartbreak? It seems less likely now. I mean, Noe's already heartbroken, and she's still not crying. She found it actually hard to cry in ep 12. The only time Noe has been shown close to crying was when Shin wrote he 'likes' her on the ground. The Noe ending just keeps getting stronger the more I rewatch.
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@vio5555 Also, while it's true Shin didn't verbally express what's on his mind about Hiromi, his expressions and his eye movements tell us a whole lot. Nonverbal communication is way more expressive than verbal. We've been shown a lot of facial close-up of Shin here, especially when talking to Hiromi. It may be too subtle to notice, but if you're looking for subtle hints, there you go. He's been like that, ever since ep 11, and it just got worse in this episode. I do feel like he's being a little bit of a jerk for lying to Hiromi too, but that simple gesture tells us a lot as well. Hence, this is why I think episode 13 will be interesting. We get to confirm our suspicions lol |
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2008-03-25, 15:53 | Link #208 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Noe is supposed to get her tears back by taking them from someone dear to her as she herself said in the early episodes, that's supposed to be the mechanism although the exact method in episode 13 may be different. That's what her grandmother told her and that's what Noe believes. The only ones that qualify are Shin and Jun. So Shin will probably cry and Noe will take his tears. Shin could cry because of his feelings for Hiromi and because of all the misunderstandings that created this situation to hurt Noe. Noe said to Hiromi "They're beautiful...your tears". She wants to be able to cry like Hiromi can, in fact she used to cry a lot as Jun said before she took to heart her grandmother's act of "taking her tears away". There are times when Noe has wanted to cry but can't because of her belief that her grandmother took her tears away and she needs to regain her tears by taking them from someone dear to her.
The story is set up so that Shin is the one that Noe is supposed to take the tears from in order to regain her own tears but Jun also qualifies as a person dear to her. It makes it interesting now that Noe knows about Jun's feelings for her and she did express that she did'nt want him to move away. Noe has to reconcile all the new knowledge she did'nt have until recently. As she said to herself this episode at 17:25, she did'nt notice her brother's feelings for her, Hiromi's feelings for Shin, and Shin's true feelings for Hiromi. All those feelings existed before Noe met Shin. I think Noe herself has a decision to make in episode 13 because she said "Shinichiro said that I could fly" in the preview, and she seemed to be considering the feelings of the other three as well as her own in this episode. We've seen Hiromi, Aiko, and Jun cry. Both Shin and Noe have not cried. Shin's own tears are probably what is needed for Noe to be able to cry again. Last edited by jaisrh; 2008-03-25 at 16:33. |
2008-03-25, 16:34 | Link #209 |
耳をすませば
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
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I have a comment I just thought of regarding the jumping off the tree. In previous episode, Noe has always needed Shin to catch her and asked him so. Maybe there's some significance in her climbing up and trying to jump off herself without him to catch her (if it was on purpose). If my interpretation is true it certainly shows a clear difference in Noe's character. She believes Hiromi is the one in Shin's heart and so she wants to go out of her way to try and forget about him or remove her attachment to him in the hope that it will be better for Shin.
Something else I noticed that was probably intentional from the writers is that Hiromi, after noticing Noe, is basically staring/glaring at her while Shin's own dance finishes without her noticing. There could be significance in the meaning behind this if you approach it from a certain perspective. The last thing is that I can see a contradiction between Hiromi's words about "being honest/seeing eye to eye" versus Shin's lie to her after the dance, as well as the misleading comments when he was getting dressed. If I had to make a bet I'd still wager on the Hiromi ending, but I can't see how the writers would include these things without relevance.
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Last edited by Theowne; 2008-03-25 at 16:46. |
2008-03-25, 16:59 | Link #210 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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As with everything else you point out and as ani_d pointed out, we're going to find out where all of this has led Shin in episode 13 and perhaps find out the final interpretations of the events and symbols employed earlier. I don't really have much to add to your interpretation since you covered all of the points I'd imagine we got out of episode 12. There isn't too much to question since now that the Raigomaru/Jibeta issue has resolved, it's just a matter of who he'll fly for... Yes, we've only seen "fake tears" from Shin (I think?). Shin and Noe's "true tears" are going to take center stage in episode 13. |
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2008-03-25, 17:10 | Link #211 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Well, Shin had those worthless gutter tears as Noe put them in episode 4 when he was moping, thinking that Hiromi liked Jun. Shin did'nt really cry, he just offered to cry for Noe but she rejected them as worthless. Basically, at that time he was'nt ready to fly because he lacked sense of purpose and direction. Since he's going to be ready to fly in episode 13, his tears will now have value for Noe. The tears of someone ready to fly, maybe away from her whether it's his choice or because she sends him off. I always thought they had a sort of symbiotic relationship where she helps Shin in getting to where he wants to be and she regains her tears in the process, that was set up with the first two picture book scenes and the events since then support that.
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2008-03-25, 17:34 | Link #212 | ||
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Anyways, I'm hoping for a Noe ending. |
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2008-03-25, 17:48 | Link #213 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
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i just wanted to state that I ,again, really enjoyed the episode.
I am a Noe-fan through and through. What I liked about the episode is when Akio sees Noe and Hiromi like fight over Shin and get hinted that she stills has feelings for Shin. I got a basic question (without meaning any offense to the forum members): Why do you keep saying "I am so disappoint of this", "that should have been more like that... " Why cant (at least some people) never accept the anime as it is? It is great that people are so moved by the anime that they would have wished for their fav character to act different, but why do you set yourself in a position where you basically say: "Writers so lame because...." Maybe you got your own image of True Tears on how its supposed to be (and your perfectly well entitled to it) but why do you have to post that in the forum of things you really like (and I guess that would be anime) and still say "that is soo lame" Edit Nr. 7 (or so) I really have a hard time not being misunderstood. Last thing I want to add: My perception of thread like this is, that it is supposed to by a place where fans of the respective anime can share their experience with others. What they felt while watching, what they like most, what made them sad, who they root for, etc. that's that, sorry for being so off-topic. Second thing is, but that is really a personal one, that I dont like analysing a episode in every detail. What is most important to me when watching anime, is that I have a good time and feel that the world isnt that bad as it looks to me when I for once lift my head. Isnt it that this feeling gets lost if you are concentrating on details so much? It is my perception that every work of fiction is to be enjoyed as a whole, and not in detail. thank you for your time please dont feel offended in any way, that is a anime forum where anyone can post their opinion after all. But I hope so can I. |
2008-03-25, 18:08 | Link #214 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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As viewers I think we acknowledge the writers' intent and so for True Tears it's more comparable to reading a novel not just for enjoyment but also critically as opposed to purely for enjoyment without a critical eye, simply because I think the writers have set the bar higher in terms of expectations. In that vein I think we do have to say where the writers might have gone astray (in our opinions) and where we found them to be directly on point. Some of the biggest issues that have arisen are with respect to the handling of Shin's mom. I think even the biggest "fan" of True Tears can admit that Shin's mom wasn't the most solid of foundations upon which to build a relationship for Shin and Hiromi and the total lack of explanation of her behaviors is perhaps the largest flaw. Exposing those kinds of flaws is a part of our job as viewers of this kind of drama, while simultaneously acknowledging that the writers have created a very realistically paced and heartfelt drama with compelling characters. I think the second aspect is that we can point out weaknesses as well such as Aiko's handling which in my personal opinion would have been superior if she had stayed in the role of the "elder statesman" to elucidate upon Hiromi's (and Noe's) actions to Shin and the audience. As an example of my own case of viewing an anime "just as it is", I view Spice and Wolf with a far less critical eye than I do True Tears simply because I think S&W is just trying to tell a nice story but not really providing us with any groundbreaking drama. That's the kind of anime that I think the viewer just takes at face value for enjoyment, since it's not really trying to be a masterpiece of drama like True Tears. One final thing, I also rate the episodes of True Tears in a more critical sense, so the benchmark is different for me than it is for other animes. For Spice and Wolf I've given plenty of episodes "Perfect 10"s simply because I think they've done what they've set out to do, which is entertain me and not really slow down or lose my interest as a viewer. For True Tears my ratings are based on how each episode advances the drama as well as answers questions from before and fits into the context of the whole story, so although my ratings are lower on average, it's no surprise that I view True Tears as the vastly superior anime (even though I acknowledge its flaws where I don't really see many in one like Spice and Wolf). Last edited by vio5555; 2008-03-25 at 18:20. |
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2008-03-25, 18:41 | Link #215 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Vio5555 gave a good response, but I'll add my own.
Usually people who keep up and watch show "x" are more or less interested in show "x." Especially those of us who are on these boards and are replying to threads like so. In some cases people just keep up with a show in hopes of seeing something worthwhile in hopes of finding something very enjoyable. In both cases, when a show starts to throw in things that they didn't like to see, or if the show is heading in a direction that becomes unbearable for them, they are going to complain about it. They have spent "y" time on show "x" and would like to see a nice conclusion to it to feel satisfied that they truly used their time to best of experience as possible. If not it is the same as watching like 3/5 of a movie and never seeing the rest.
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2008-03-25, 19:55 | Link #216 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I really can't wait for Saturday! I am not predicting anything. I am going th cowardly way with 50/50 for each girl. I am just not sure because they gave us episode 10 and I had Hiromi at 99% victory, then they gave us episode 12. I would have giving noe a 90% against 10% for hiromi if Shin had not hugged her and chased after in episode 9 and 10 respectively. So those two events help keep hiromi still at a respectable 50% chance.
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2008-03-25, 20:02 | Link #217 | |
Syouke
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada/Montreal
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anyway, as reckoner said it's right. It's unbearable to watch some animes that we like. Like...Naruto . hahaha. btw, guys. I hope this is not true but if it is. I would be damn mad. I saw that in RC, so I want to share it for u guys. "virox at 7:30 pm on March 25th, 2008 I’ve heard that there will be a second season… WHY CAN’T THEY JUST LET IT BE WITH ONE GREAT SEASON!? I can’t stand this shit, why do they always have to pull the last bit of money out of a grainfull anime?? I think that the second season will be a less in quality. Source: Moetaku Fansubs, looks like they get this information from bandai… “there will be a second season and Haruhi will make a cameo appearence” “it’s information given to us by Bandai!”"
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Last edited by AznSoulBoy; 2008-03-25 at 21:47. |
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2008-03-25, 21:01 | Link #219 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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2008-03-25, 21:35 | Link #220 |
Syouke
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada/Montreal
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That's what I thought. I wasn't sure until someone said it and fortunately relentlessflame replied. Haha, well it relieves me now. I wasn't sure so I decided to check like every sites and they were no such a thing. Anyway, it wouldn't make sense. Sorry about that stupid "rumour" whoever said it.
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Last edited by AznSoulBoy; 2008-03-25 at 21:47. |
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