The Novel and Manga of Haruhi Suzumiya

[X207]

Originally Posted by NagatoYuki

can the cat at episode 00 really talk?

yes, during the filming of that process it all became real ie talking shami
other left out scenes not shown in anime ep

Spoiler:

real mikuru beam, mikuru beam R (nagato tackled her to stop it).

[Zaresh]

Originally Posted by shotna13

hi, i'm new here. I've been reading the posts on this thread for some time now and i have some theories ( rather strange i think ) about Kyon
So... here it goes

Spoiler for all the novels, i guess:

first of all i would like to say that i also believe that Kyon is nothing more than an ordinary human being, with no special or supernatural powers whatsoever., and also an important character, if not the central character, in this story. That being said i'll get right to the point.
I think Kyon is actualy ( now this will sound very strange ) " the man who always makes the right choice". Ok...if you want to stop reading this weird theory now you can do so, i won't mind . But anyway...i'm not refering to the fact that Kyon is the main character of this story and thus the audience expects of him to always make the right choice, i am talking about Kyon's " reason to be". He is important because he is the only character who can make the right choice. i got this idea from another book i have read some time ago in which the hero is in a similar situation as that of kyon. The hero is also confronted by different factions , equaly powerful, which demand of him to make a choice regarding what faction should become the dominant one. He has the ability to always make the right decision, so whatever faction he chooses will bring peace an happiness to the worl/universe etc. This ability isn't somesort of a supernatural power, but rather luck, coincidence or instinct.
So returnig to Kyon's case maybe this is his true purpose. He is an ordinary human being with the ability to always make the right choice ( i know it's not an ordinary ability but bare with me). Throughout the novels he is confonted with different choices. In vol. 1 he finds himself in a closed space and "persuades " haruhi to return to the old world. In vol. 4 he chooses the old universe over the Nagato-universe. In vol. 7 he decides to help asahina (big) by following her instructions even though at one point he asks himself what if he were to disobey those instructions , and not to mention the important choice asahina(big) said he will have to make in the near future ( probably to decide who the new god-like existence should be: haruhi or sasaki. Who knows... maybe kyon would have to go back in time when sasaki had the powers and not haruhi and decide which one of them should hold on to those powers).
Also in Asahina Mikuru's Adventure Episode 00 Koizumy refers to Kyon as the key who can only open a door and nothing else ( however it si the key that decides which door should be opened), while in vol. 7 Koizumy tells kyon right at the end :

"Maybe the one with omnipotent powers isn't Suzumiya-san after all, but rather someone else?"

Koizumi's probably trying to add some sarcasm to his smile, yet all I saw was his usual grin.

"The eye of the storm is very calm, yet it is surrounded by calamity. Maybe there are some that decide to watch from the sidelines and see how all this unfolds. You sure have been kept busy as well, would a scriptwriter play such a tiring character himself?"

I don't know if this statement implies that kyon might be god ( it doesn't matter anyway) however it does underline kyon's importance to the story. And these aren't the only examples.On many occasions Kyon is confronted with several choices from which he has to pick only one, and usualy is the right one. So maybe because of this unique ability kyon was chosen both by haruhi and sasaki, koizumy pledged his loiality to him and nagato and asahina are both following his instructions.
I know this theory doesn't answer all the big questions, like what happened 3-4 years ago, where do haruhi's powers come from but...
well..i hope i didn't bore to much and...see ya

In sort, you mean...

Spoiler:

Kyon is like Golan Trevize in Foundation last books? But Golan was not an ordinary person, you know... Second Foundatioon leader was very interested on him because he was very VERY special. Eve if he looked like a normal guy. But, yeah, Kyon resembled very well that especial but not especial person. His abnormality or his power is to do the right choice and to be in the right place in the correct time... always, every time.

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by X207

yes, theres the one where haruhi has the power and then theres the one where they support sasaki. so far they seem to coesist. as for which one is the real timeline, i suspect thats most likely for kyon to decide.

Thanks X207, I had to re-read the first the ALPHA parts, then the BETA parts last. I have a wierd feeling that, in the BETA 4 chapter when Tachibana Kyoko said:

"We firmly believe the powers Suzumiya-san are holding onto now
originally belonged to Sasaki-san. However there must be a mistake
somewhere that caused it to transfer to another person. And therefore, I hope
to change things back to how it was. In that case, the world will definitely
move in a much better direction."

How can the powers be suddenly transfer to Haruhi? Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think this timeline is cause by Sasaki, because Kyoko clearly stated that the powers must be transfer back to Sasaki. In that just who has the ability to cause a parallel time line, well we all know Haruhi can create the universe that way she fits it, but there are two persons that comes to mind.... Nagato and Kuyoh. I suspect its Kuyoh for the following reasons:

1. Yuki again got sick again just like in Snowy Mountain Syndrome.
2. Yuki just like haruhi can create, manipulate, and destroy dimensions and matter, but unlike haruhi, Yuki cannot create the universe. Yuki shows that in The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi.
3.Itsuki Koizumi and Yuki acknowledge that The Canopy Domain is behind the incident that happend in Snowy Mountain Syndrome. Therefore, there is only one character that is able to create another timeline that overlaps the real timeline, is Kuyoh.

In conclusion: Kyoko, would be telling/asking/demanding that the powers should transfer back to Sasaki, even it shows that Sasaki has some abilities to read minds, (like Koizumi and Haruhi) but other wise... she is just a normal person. And all those coincidental meetings with Kyon, is not Sasaki doings. I suspect its the Sneering Bastard pullings the strings, The Intrigues of Suzumiya Haruhi (vol 7) Clearly stated Mikuru from eight days in the future, was kidnap by both Sneering Bastard and Kyoko, it clearly shows that they were incognito/following them from afar. Sasaki was not even involved.

Well, I truly believe is Kuyoh. Maybe I'm wrong,I had to re-read volume 1 to 8 again (GOD!!! I love Nagaru Tanigawa's work I could re-read over and over...hahaha ), just in case I miss something.

What do you think? It is Kuyoh...right?


Thank you
Domo Arigato

In the prologue of vol 9, Kyon states this:

Spoiler for Vol 9 - Suzumiya Hruhi:

I already know aliens, as well as a time-traveling senior. I also cannot deny
that the male whom I talked to the most often throughout the past year is an
esper as well. But...
On that day, that moment, when Haruhi made that introduction speech that
shocked all of 1-5, of all the groups she mentioned there is still one that has
not appeared.

Sliders.

Even though I do not wish for such people to exist, and the only one who
would feel that they are missing is that girl, now that we have all been
successfully promoted, the first-year seat is left empty...

If that is the case: what if by coincident it's actually Sasaki, the reason I'm thinking it because how the ALPHA and BETA timeline also trigger by two factor:
The meeting with Suzumiya and the SOS Brigade's Member, prior to the creation of the timeline.
After the "call" to kyon.

Even though its POV of kyon, but it just way to coincident that its has to be involved with Sasaki.

Then there is the last Thought.

When Haruhi met Sasaki the first time, she (Sasaki) introduced her self as a "Close Friend", as Koizumi pointed/hinted this may have caused the sudden Close Space to appear more frequently. As this may be also a trigger for the 2 timeline to be created. The reasons are the following:
The second time SOS Brigade met, Sasaki had Kyoko, Kuyoh and Sneering Bastard with her. That may be the pointing gun.
Heres another way to put it.

SOS BRIGADE = SASAKI CREW

Haruhi Suzumiya = Sasaki
Koizumi = Kyoko
Nagato = Kuyoh
Mikuru = Sneering Bastard
Kyon

Each one correspond to each other, if the interpretation is correct... each one are rivals, but not Kyon.
Kyon is the only one that really does not have a rival, in some case he should be in the middle. And this added by the fact that Haruhi as pointed by Koizumi, his overload of "part-time" work he has to do, cause the Haruhi's mental instability. coincidentally started from the first meeting. On the second meeting, it was "what the camel back broke...", causing Haruhi to be annoyed or even just for arguing sake... hurt. As we all know she has deep feelings for Kyon, after all she it the one that chooses him. In some case, if she has got hurt, and not aware of what it may have caused, this new type of emotional imbalance (remember most of her life she was just a lonely kid) may actually caused the timeline to split in 2, one is the real one while the other one is her... lets say the "Hurt" one. In this case it involving Kyon to be in the middle. Perhaps, it like when someone wants you to be understanding about the sensitivity of how someone that most of their lives was actually alone, in an act of "GOD" (well just think of that for a moment ...), deep inside Kyon is there with her (not only in the PAST/PRESENT time frames). In some way it's like Haruhi given Kyon a chance to walk both path and he must discover the reason what is given to him. Such as that old saying... "each road must go somewhere". Haruhi can create multiple timelines, just like when Kyon and her were together in a new dimension, while the other one... Koizumi with the help of the "Organization" able to penetrate on the one haruhi just create, but for a small time. If you think about, as he said the old dimension is still in existance, while the new old is just created, "if Haruhi is merciful... the one old will continue with the new...." VOL 1. In that case, there was 2 dimensions in existances!!! All that by Haruhi powers. What if this Timeline is actually Haruhi as well....?

Too many theories... hahahaha

Enjoy the thoughts

Thank you
Domo arigato

[shotna13]

Originally Posted by Zaresh

In sort, you mean...

Spoiler:

Kyon is like Golan Trevize in Foundation last books? But Golan was not an ordinary person, you know... Second Foundatioon leader was very interested on him because he was very VERY special. Eve if he looked like a normal guy. But, yeah, Kyon resembled very well that especial but not especial person. His abnormality or his power is to do the right choice and to be in the right place in the correct time... always, every time.

That's right.

Spoiler:

I first got the idea from Asimov's Foundation books. Compared to the other factions Golan Travize seemed like a minor player in the beginning, that is until the last pages of the book. I wonder if Kyon will ever doubt his choices just like Trevize did once.

Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato

SOS BRIGADE = SASAKI CREW

Haruhi Suzumiya = Sasaki
Koizumi = Kyoko
Nagato = Kuyoh
Mikuru = Sneering Bastard
Kyon

Each one correspond to each other, if the interpretation is correct... each one are rivals, but not Kyon.

So maybe two time lines are showing two different stories. One which belongs to kyon and the other one to, let's say' anti-Kyon...although not very likely

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato

In the prologue of vol 9, Kyon states this:

Spoiler for Vol 9 - Suzumiya Hruhi:

I already know aliens, as well as a time-traveling senior. I also cannot deny
that the male whom I talked to the most often throughout the past year is an
esper as well. But...
On that day, that moment, when Haruhi made that introduction speech that
shocked all of 1-5, of all the groups she mentioned there is still one that has
not appeared.

Sliders.

Even though I do not wish for such people to exist, and the only one who
would feel that they are missing is that girl, now that we have all been
successfully promoted, the first-year seat is left empty...

If that is the case: what if by coincident it's actually Sasaki, the reason I'm thinking it because how the ALPHA and BETA timeline also trigger by two factor:
The meeting with Suzumiya and the SOS Brigade's Member, prior to the creation of the timeline.
After the "call" to kyon.

Spoiler:

The timelines appeared to split just before the call to Kyon, with the ALPHA phone call being from someone who's voice he didn't recognise who refered to him as Senpai. Then, in the alpha timeline, when the first year students came to the SOS DAN meeting, Kyon counted 10 and then suddenly there were 11 (if I remember the numbers correctly), and one girl took great interest in Haruhi's speach. She seemed familiar to Kyon, but he was sure that he had never met her. If there is a slider then it is probably her. And, while the timelines are labeled Alpha and Beta, we can't be sure that they actually happened in that order.

[X207]

personally i think that story alpha will be chosen as it corresponds to the previous novels of haruhi holding power. unless the author lied about kyon i believe that 11th person is a slider. cant wait for vol 10 to be translated when it comes out

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by shotna13

That's right.

Spoiler:

I first got the idea from Asimov's Foundation books. Compared to the other factions Golan Travize seemed like a minor player in the beginning, that is until the last pages of the book. I wonder if Kyon will ever doubt his choices just like Trevize did once.

So maybe two time lines are showing two different stories. One which belongs to kyon and the other one to, let's say' anti-Kyon...although not very likely

I'm waiting for vol10 to come out, just see if it fits any, or maybe not....

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by PastPrime

Spoiler:

The timelines appeared to split just before the call to Kyon, with the ALPHA phone call being from someone who's voice he didn't recognise who refered to him as Senpai. Then, in the alpha timeline, when the first year students came to the SOS DAN meeting, Kyon counted 10 and then suddenly there were 11 (if I remember the numbers correctly), and one girl took great interest in Haruhi's speach. She seemed familiar to Kyon, but he was sure that he had never met her. If there is a slider then it is probably her. And, while the timelines are labeled Alpha and Beta, we can't be sure that they actually happened in that order.

Originally Posted by X207

personally i think that story alpha will be chosen as it corresponds to the previous novels of haruhi holding power. unless the author lied about kyon i believe that 11th person is a slider. cant wait for vol 10 to be translated when it comes out

The 11 person, is what got me thinking about how all the possibilities can be connected to Haruhi and Sasaki incidents. There are too many possibilities, to actually convey to proper communication may be lost in the translation hahaha

I can only see, how each possibilities be manifested in existence.

in sense....

UNIQUE



The series are getting better and better....!!!!!! Can't wait for Vol 10.

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by shotna13

That's right.

Spoiler:

I first got the idea from Asimov's Foundation books. Compared to the other factions Golan Travize seemed like a minor player in the beginning, that is until the last pages of the book. I wonder if Kyon will ever doubt his choices just like Trevize did once.

So maybe two time lines are showing two different stories. One which belongs to kyon and the other one to, let's say' anti-Kyon...although not very likely

I had to add this... There are two timelines coexisting, Kyon is in the middle, just say for ALPHA timeline - Haruhi (since there is no meeting with the SAKAKI CREW), and the slider (the 11 person/girl that pop out of nowhere).

While BETA timeline - Sasaki (the meeting of the SAKAKI CREW had happend), and Yuki got sick.

Somewhere there was a similar incident on both actually had a similiar experience, I would like you check in the ALPHA about what did Koizumi and Kyon did after the meeting with the SOS 10....eerrrr.... 11 (kume!!!) hopefuls/participants/. And, on the BETA what did Koizumi and Kyon did, before both Haruhi and Kyon realized that Nagato wasn't there. Check out the similarities.



Thank you
Domo arigato

[shotna13]

Ok...so in both cases they're playing Ranju and the text is almost the same. Could it be a hint?
And one thing i don't understand:

Spoiler for vol. 9:

Why do the first-years try to apply for the SOS Brigade in Alpha but not in Beta. Is it because of the 11th mysterious girl? Or because Haruhi rushes out of the classroom instead of helping Kyon with his math problems. The rest of the differences i pretty much understood them. For instance why Yuki got sick. In Beta Kyon also calls Yuki informing her about the meeting on Sunday, Yuki probably sends Emiri to keep on eye on Kyon, Kuyoh figures out who Emiri is and then decides to take action against both her and Yuki.
All these questions hurt my head. We should just wait for the next volumes.

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by shotna13

Ok...so in both cases they're playing Ranju and the text is almost the same. Could it be a hint?
And one thing i don't understand:

Spoiler for vol. 9:

Why do the first-years try to apply for the SOS Brigade in Alpha but not in Beta. Is it because of the 11th mysterious girl? Or because Haruhi rushes out of the classroom instead of helping Kyon with his math problems. The rest of the differences i pretty much understood them. For instance why Yuki got sick. In Beta Kyon also calls Yuki informing her about the meeting on Sunday, Yuki probably sends Emiri to keep on eye on Kyon, Kuyoh figures out who Emiri is and then decides to take action against both her and Yuki.
All these questions hurt my head. We should just wait for the next volumes.

I do believe is some type to hint, here are the reasons:
ALPHA timeline was totally different with the actions of each SOS crew members, I...ummm... had to read both timelines 4 times!!!
The reason is there was something that I couldn't grasp... I felt in the Alpha timeline it connoted to certains interractions of the SOS crew as if in sence they are more closer as family then a group being close friends.

BETA timeline was more unpleasant with the interractions between the crew, especially after class when Suzumiya kept on going out, the interraction between Kyon and Haruhi was less, seems more colder, this was hinted from when kyon was in the SOS class and the following actions occured

Spoiler for Vol 9:

I saw the smile on Koizumi that looked like it really came from his heart and
only had a single thought. What an untimely bastard. If you came alone we
could have shared some secret talk. Now that you are sticking so close to
Haruhi, it is totally impossible to talk now. I originally planned to share my
thoughts on Tachibana Kyoko with him, but that guy would have probably
heard it from somewhere by now. It may not even be surprising even if I told
him Kimidori-san is working at the shop. It is very rare to find a person with
so little excitement in his life.......


Kyon ask Koizumi:
"What did Haruhi and you do before going here?"
"Nothing much." Just like a seal swimming in the sea, Koizumi slid into the
clubroom and closed the door without changing his expression of
nonchalance:
"We only happened to meet on the walkway on the first level, we are
definitely not carrying out some secret mission behind your back."

I have this feeling this timeline the interractions between is off, as if something is making their interraction between them off. There is a possibility that Haruhi knows about the meeting between Kyon and Sasaki crew. The reason is that it somewhat seems she is avoiding him, (when he came in the class, and all day she just run around the school), and walking in with Koizumi to the SOS HQ.
Now... remember this timeline imposed mostly on Kyon and the Sasaki Crew.
If you recall, when he came in the room Nagato wasn't there, it didn't really matter at that point; Mikuru and Haruhi and Koizumi where there but the interraction as I felted it was off... way off.

BUT!!!

Something happend during that timeline that made the SOS crew to be more closer as they should be.... give you a hint... THE GAME.

It's was that whiched mirrow the ALPHA timeline, that was the trigger.

Let me give you this concept:

Have you ever heard about Dr. Michio Kaku, Andre Linde or Max Tegmark?

They are all scientists, I like the Linde explication on parallel universe even though all the other scientists are more or less the same.

THE BUBBLE UNIVERSE:
I'll use the wiki version.
Bubble theory posits an infinite number of open multiverses, each with different physical constants.

Counter-intuitively, these universes are farther away than even the farthest universe in our open multiverse.

The formation of our universe from a "bubble" of a multiverse was proposed by Andre Linde. This Bubble universe theory fits well with the widely accepted theory of cosmic inflation. The bubble universe concept involves creation of universes from the quantum foam of a "parent universe." On very small scales, the foam is frothing due to energy fluctuations. These fluctuations may create tiny bubbles and wormholes. If the energy fluctuation is not very large, a tiny bubble universe may form, experience some expansion like an inflating balloon, and then contract and disappear from existence. However, if the energy fluctuation is greater than a particular critical value, a tiny bubble universe forms from the parent universe, experiences long-term expansion, and allows matter and large-scale galactic structures to form.


Think how we stack CDROMS on top of each other, each cd represents a universe, they all have there own unique laws and realities, therefore they are different from each other. But... If one universe is just say "stronger", it will/may cause a "punch through" the other ones. Since at that point in time and space, both universe share the same reality... but a unique one that either one does not apply too. Say A +B =C, A is different from B, and B is different from A. But C is totally different from A and B, cause C is a creation from A and B, but is not as A and B. Get it?

And that was the GAME:

Well that is just my theory. I believe the real timeline or the Stronger one is what causes both timeline to share a similar experience. The question is which timeline?
And what/who caused it? I have a hunch!!! but I will see if it fits in Vol 10.

Enjoy the thoughts

Thank you
DOMO ARIGATO

[Kristen]

Has there been any news on Volume 10 at all? I mean, it's been almost 4 months since it was delayed...

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

Has there been any news on Volume 10 at all? I mean, it's been almost 4 months since it was delayed...

The Surprise of Haruhi Suzumiya
涼宮ハルヒの驚愕

ANIME NEWS NETWORK

stated on 2007-15-07

...."A note on Kadokawa's website has confirmed that Suzumiya Haruhi no Kyōgaku (The Surprise of Haruhi Suzumiya), the ninth sequel to The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya light novel that started the franchise, has been pushed from June 1 to an unlisted date "due to various circumstances."

Not sure what are the various cirmumstances, I currently searching through the web engine in Japanese, so far every it just speculations due to publishing. I'll let you know if anything else comes up. Even the webpage of Kadokawa's website doesn't say much.

[PastPrime]

On the possibility of Kyon having some kind of powers. I would say that either his power is being immune to Haruhi's powers or else Haruhi does not want him to have any special powers. Because, if he is not immune to her powers and she wanted him to have some special power then he would have some special power.

[Silasj]

Originally Posted by PastPrime

On the possibility of Kyon having some kind of powers. I would say that either his power is being immune to Haruhi's powers or else Haruhi does not want him to have any special powers. Because, if he is not immune to her powers and she wanted him to have some special power then he would have some special power.

Maybe Haruhi just wants to find out that life is good enough without aliens, espers and time travelers, however her deepest with is clouded by her more childish wishes

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by PastPrime

On the possibility of Kyon having some kind of powers. I would say that either his power is being immune to Haruhi's powers or else Haruhi does not want him to have any special powers. Because, if he is not immune to her powers and she wanted him to have some special power then he would have some special power.

Like other Kyonist theories, you are completely ignoring the events of "Endless 8".

If Kyon is immune to her powers, he would never have been stuck in a time loop for that many times.

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Like other Kyonist theories, you are completely ignoring the events of "Endless 8".

If Kyon is immune to her powers, he would never have been stuck in a time loop for that many times.

I would hardly forget endless 8. I ment on a personnal level. i.e. she could not give him special powers like she did with Mikuro's contacts or when she changed the pigeons at the Temple white. Not that he could not get caught in a timeloop or some other change that she created. However, I think that she really wants him to be normal.

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by PastPrime

On the possibility of Kyon having some kind of powers. I would say that either his power is being immune to Haruhi's powers or else Haruhi does not want him to have any special powers. Because, if he is not immune to her powers and she wanted him to have some special power then he would have some special power.

Originally Posted by Silasj

Maybe Haruhi just wants to find out that life is good enough without aliens, espers and time travelers, however her deepest with is clouded by her more childish wishes

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Like other Kyonist theories, you are completely ignoring the events of "Endless 8".

If Kyon is immune to her powers, he would never have been stuck in a time loop for that many times.

Originally Posted by PastPrime

I would hardly forget endless 8. I ment on a personnal level. i.e. she could not give him special powers like she did with Mikuro's contacts or when she changed the pigeons at the Temple white. Not that he could not get caught in a timeloop or some other change that she created. However, I think that she really wants him to be normal.

There is tons of Kyonist around the world that are stating many theories about the true nature or the relationship between him and Haruhi.... yet this could be applied to the SOS Brigade.

A good friend of my told me this, I may or may not agree with it but this is how the conversation when:

"Keitaro!!! do you remember about the first part of the vol 1 of the novel?"
"huh? what about it?"
"Well, if you noticed, Kyon wants to believe in aliens, ESPERs, time travelers and what not. After he went to high school, he drop those childish delusions and accepted a normal grayish life...."
"Yep, I remember. What do you ask?"
"Well, his life became colorful when Haruhi come in the picture... someone that he never expected to have such or share the same notions as him.... AND... as we know she has feelings for him inside, but outside she is totally different then what Kyon expected. You see, don't you find it that, he actually found his ...better half?"
"What are you talking about?!? Kyon didn't found his better half, more likely she kinda found him. Yes, I do admit that she and he shares the same wavelength, but that doesn't mean that he found her. And... Haruhi more likely found him, remember she asked for aliens, ESPERs, time travelers and slider to come with her and..........Wait a minute...???? Sliders....... So far I came to that conclusion about that 11th person in Vol10. What are you trying to imposed? That Kyon is like HARUHI!!!???"
"No, no, no..... I don't think he is like her. But I believe deep inside of her that she wanted someone, her better half... by saying that.... don't you think she may have give him something besides being Kyon....."

Well, that what he told me. I don't think there is a possibily that Haruhi may granted him powers. I believe that he has powers all the long.
They are:

"TRUST"
"RELIABLE"
"COMMITMENT"
"ENDURANCE"
"KINDNESS"
"LOYAL"
"KEENNESS"

Those qualities, are powers each of us have that makes us human beings. In sense, Kyon is just a regular person, but has more to offer as a person and/or as a friend.

Thank you
Domo Arigato


ありがとう

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by PastPrime

I would hardly forget endless 8. I ment on a personnal level. i.e. she could not give him special powers like she did with Mikuro's contacts or when she changed the pigeons at the Temple white. Not that he could not get caught in a timeloop or some other change that she created. However, I think that she really wants him to be normal.

Still, that just mean you are following Itsuki's theory.

As I mentioned in the past, the "Haruhi made everything happen" view is the easiest to comprehend because it is the simplest. But that doesn't mean it was right.

From recent novel events, we know that in a non-magical way...

Spoiler for novel spoiler:

Haruhi did create the timetravellers... by writing the handbook on time traveling theories and get it into the hands of the boy who would one day invent the time machine.

But that certainly doesn't mean Haruhi spontaneously generated people to her liking. She could have, and would have had not Snow White canceled her plans. It's not that Haruhi wanted Kyon to be normal; Haruhi wanted Kyon to be Kyon. You are not really in love with someone, unless you are willing to accept your partner for who he/she is.

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Still, that just mean you are following Itsuki's theory.

As I mentioned in the past, the "Haruhi made everything happen" view is the easiest to comprehend because it is the simplest. But that doesn't mean it was right.

From recent novel events, we know that in a non-magical way...

Spoiler for novel spoiler:

Haruhi did create the timetravellers... by writing the handbook on time traveling theories and get it into the hands of the boy who would one day invent the time machine.

But that certainly doesn't mean Haruhi spontaneously generated people to her liking. She could have, and would have had not Snow White canceled her plans. It's not that Haruhi wanted Kyon to be normal; Haruhi wanted Kyon to be Kyon. You are not really in love with someone, unless you are willing to accept your partner for who he/she is.

She wanted the cat to be special and he talked, she wanted white pigeons and they turned white, she wanted cherry blossums and the trees bloomed out of season. If she wanted Kyon to have special powers then he would have special powers. She just wants him to be himself. And I don't think that any of those things require Itsuki's theory. There was no need for her to spontaniously generate people. She just did things that, as your spoiler indicates, brought the people she was seeking to her.