Higurashi Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Cist

Spoiler:

So the men caught Keiichi. But it doesn't make too much sense as to why the men tried to run over Keiichi and kill him before, but now only knocked him out and handed him over to Rena.

Hmm, i'm not to sure if it was said that the men caught upto Keiichi, i mean if Rena & Satoko have anything to do with whats going on, it could be them?

[DingoEnderZOE2]

Just now finished watching episode 4 and all I can say is:

Spoiler:

Wow....Just wow. This episode was just too suspenseful and well done for words to describe. What's impressive to me was all the events from Episodes 1 - 4 up to now all led perfectly into Keichi's inevitable fate. But now I can't help but wonder, what now? Now that we know that Keichi's dead what's supposed to happen now? Who's supposed to continue the investigation?

[Varion]

he DVD comes with a "mini soundtrack" CD which is a bit different from the official soundtrack that's going to be released in July 21st.

Ah, right. Thanks

Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2

Just now finished watching episode 4 and all I can say is:

Spoiler:

Wow....Just wow. This episode was just too suspenseful and well done for words to describe. What's impressive to me was all the events from Episodes 1 - 4 up to now all led perfectly into Keichi's inevitable fate. But now I can't help but wonder, what now? Now that we know that Keichi's dead what's supposed to happen now? Who's supposed to continue the investigation?

Nonono, read kj's post here. That's how it's going to work.

And just a question, what will it take for Higurashi to get its own section of the forum? ^^;

The mods will kill you for daring to ask

[Vicke]

Spoiler for ep4:

There is alot going on in this show, its very hard to come up with some explanation for things when there are so few possible clues. I think im with Bron on the infection/virus/parasite theory since they didnt find any substance abuse. Now assuming that K1 was not infected in the begining of ep1 then some guessings where he could have gotten infected in ep1 is:
A) K1's mom says he should thank Rena for the Pickles that she had given. Which K1 also ate in the morning of ep1?
B) The picknick at the shrine, didnt a priest die there because of some weird disease? Also he ate Rena's home made lunchbox.
C) The punishment game where he gets his face painted with a marker pen.

Oishi-san and Mion know eachother? In ep2 Oishi tells K1 that he specifically must not tell Mion (and his friends) then in ep4 she talks about that she showed him mercy and stuff.

Spoiler for preview of ep5:

Also in the preview to ep5 we see Mion dressed as one of those waitresses that work in the resturant where K1 and Oishi ate? That would explain how Mion new about that

[Scribble]

also

Spoiler:

the punishment game where he gets his face painted is the exact situation in episode 4....Rena is holding Kei and Mion is advancing towards him. I know it's pretty much already been said that Kei goes "mad", it's just an observation.

I'm also wondering how cicadas fit into this. Does Na have anything to do with this. When Kei has his first "insane eyes" moment is when his dad brings the tea, saying that Rena visited. Then cicadas were shown fluttering near the light. Maybe this is just irrelevant and is just a simple metaphor.

[Freak Of Nature]

Originally Posted by Vicke

Spoiler for preview of ep5:

Also in the preview to ep5 we see Mion dressed as one of those waitresses that work in the resturant where K1 and Oishi ate? That would explain how Mion new about that

The name of the café where K1 and Oishi ate is Angel Mort. How very suggestive...

Seiryuu's remark about how K1 and the girls are never behaving insanely simultaneously is, I think, spot on. There's little doubt that, no matter what the truth is, a large part of what we are shown is not real. It's somehow filtered through a lens of insanity or evil or something paranormal. But whose lens is it we are seeing through? K1's? Or is the answer more subtle than that?

Damn, Rena's insane face is scary. Best psycho-look I've ever seen. Norman Bates go home.

[Boukenxha]

Yeah Bron, that's a very coherent writeup on Keiichi's insanity, I like your train of thought. And I appreciate that the game players are become our very own TIPS factor. The one kj1980 last put up is interesting, but I don't know what to make of that information.

Spoiler for what I think about the TIP:

I thought hard about it but it seems to me like almost every possible theory is nullified by the doctor's answer. The one left is the "got hit in the head" theory which both Tomitake and Keiichi shared, but what about the events before the green guys assaulted Keiichi. Can Keiichi's state of mind back then be described as a bipolar state of depression? Can the ohagi needle and the van incident be said to be part of his suicide tendencies which he didn't have the will to die for? If it's only part of the answer, are there other leads? Can the coroner be trusted? Could the coroner be our suspicious 4-eyed doctor?

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Spoiler:

3. http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=173

The part that got ripped out is the passage mentioning the syringe.

4. There's only 1 phone booth in Hinamizawa. Oishi wrote "Hinamizawa telephone box" on a piece of paper and showed it to a fellow worker while talking to Keiichi, and the fellow worker wrote back "One phone box in Hinamizawa, patrol car has been sent, 5 minutes".

Spoiler:

3. Hmm... you didn't mention if it was a mistake or not. But by this screenie in ep 4 which I've just noticed, it's like Studio Deen was pushing it into our faces and saying "look here, that was no mistake!" Looking at the time frame and your info about the missing part, the van incident onwards were foretold in the note. Could it be that Keiichi subconsciously played out the script he wrote in his fucked mind? Which brings us to the point of the suicide tip again. There was this part which he wrote that Tomitake died of the drug and the syringe was the evidence. That was almost like he was psychoing himself that he would die the same way Tomitake did. And like Bron said, it might just be water in that syringe. There was also this part which says "If you are reading this, I might already be dead." While it's the norm to have a similar passage in such notes (fiction and movies always have them), it's frightening that this underlined what Keiichi could have done there.

4. Still there's something about the old man that troubles me. He associated himself with Keiichi so that he would return to him with information that he needed to solve the case. Though he instructed Keiichi not to tell anyone especially Mion, I wonder if he knew the kind of trouble Keiichi might get into if they knew they were on close terms. Well he didn't even offer any kind of help or protection when Keiichi first told him about the attempts on his life. Maybe, one can even accuse him of sending Keiichi, a mere 1? years old teenager to his death.

Additionally, I found a couple of interesting points which haven't been mentioned yet. They don't really answer anything and raise more questions instead, but I thought they could be of some importance (?). Meh I think questioning is the only thing I can do at this point, I have no answers at all.

Spoiler for ep 2, 3 & 4:

1. Keiichi's converstation with Mion in ep 4, the part where Mion goes on about the Jiji and how she should have had him killed. I don't know much about psychology, but I thought that scene could be important because it couldn't have been something which Keiichi imagined due to his supposed paranoia condition, the said target was Oishi (or some other jiji?) and not him. I kinda doubt Keiichi would have the capacity to imagined that when his supposed delusions are all about people wanting to kill him and not someone else. Well if I'm wrong, some well-read people please educate me on that. Anyway, that could mean Mion's expression from crying to murderous intent wasn't what Keiichi imagined, this could be the evidence that those were real emotions that she was showing. If that's the case, I have a mind to think that could be the same with Rena too. The Oyashiro-mode and the kawaii-mode could both be the real side of Rena too.

2. While the show seems to suggest that most believe Oyashiro-sama as directly or indirectly the cause of the Watanagashi deaths every year, it seems to me that Onikakushi isn't as widely believed to be the cause for the missing people. Hell I wonder if most of the Hinamizawa natives even know that some of the deaths were infact people going missing. It's like the deaths were really just a cover for the missing people. Earlier we saw Keiichi recalls his teacher refering to Satoshi's seat as belonging to the transfered student. I thought there was no reason for her to lie about Satoshi being missing unless she didn't know that he was missing. If she had knew, she would have avoided saying anything so she won't hurt Satoko. And let's not forget Rena, who always insisted that Satoshi transferred. On the other hand, we have the grandmas gossiping about Takano, they did brought up Onikakushi though they later decided that Takano probably went to Tokyo with Tomitake, but the glaring part is that they didn't seems to know Tomitake was dead. I thought all these are strange if you consider how news like that would have spread fast in a small rural town.

I think I'm just throwing speculations left and right and I don't even know what I'm onto with all that questions, but this is addictive.

[Akuryou]

I'm wondering what will they do in the next episode. Keiichi can't be alive for it, so what? D:


And also, Rena looks like Keade's little sister. ;P

[Shiroth]

This thread did not need the mention of Kaede...

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by Guido

Did you read kj1980 posts?

The anime follows the game sequential order of scenarios.

Actually, I made that explanation very simple. The more confusing way to explain it was:

Onikakushi: Certain event became a trigger point that lead to this ending.
Watanagashi: A certain decision by Keiichi leads to a chain event of something terrible.
Tatarigoroshi: An unexpected re-appearance leads everything to disaster.

And no, I'm not spilling any details. That up for you to think.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Scribble

I just wanted to know....is it quite possible to figure out more than "20%" of the whole mystery by just watching the Onikakushi-hen portion? Are there still more clues in the first 4 episodes that haven't been picked up on yet?

Probably not...but by the time we get to Tsumihoroboshi (the sixth chapter), you'll find many of the hints that were there in Onikakushi that you may have missed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

Either way, the behavior swings, and the way they seemed to appear and grow after his arrival, definitely lends to the possibility of some sort of drug or environmental stimulus. Maybe there's a rare mold growing in the school walls?

Spoiler for I will reiterate this hint once again:

The question is not "what caused Keiichi's insanity, the more likely question is what is the trigger point of his paranoia

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Scribble

also

Spoiler:

the punishment game where he gets his face painted is the exact situation in episode 4....Rena is holding Kei and Mion is advancing towards him. I know it's pretty much already been said that Kei goes "mad", it's just an observation.

I'm also wondering how cicadas fit into this. Does Na have anything to do with this. When Kei has his first "insane eyes" moment is when his dad brings the tea, saying that Rena visited. Then cicadas were shown fluttering near the light. Maybe this is just irrelevant and is just a simple metaphor.

Spoiler:

Good perspective. So the question is....if that is taken from Keiichi's point of view, was Mion really holding a syringe?

The Na does not have a specific meaning, but the original author Ryukishi07 mention that the red Na is indeed part of the title. Fans and the anime production staff keeps this intact out of respect. It also catches the attention as one character being mysteriously and subtlely in red font as well, doesn't it?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Akuryou

I'm wondering what will they do in the next episode. Keiichi can't be alive for it, so what?

My wikipedia article should just be a sticky for these FAQs.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In either case, many of you have their own theories, which is a good thing. And many have mentioned one item as evidence.

I'll say this so you can keep this jabbed in your mind for the next set of episodes:

The syringe is a recurring key item in the mystery. Whether it is evidence or not, I'm not saying. But it is an important item to ponder about.

[Scribble]

Could the thing responsible for damaging Kei's mind, as mentioned in the TIP, be

Spoiler:

The cries of the cicadas. EDIT: Apparently they can be really, really loud.
.

I'm doing the best I can here, really

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by kj1980

The syringe is a recurring key item in the mystery. Whether it is evidence or not, I'm not saying. But it is an important item to ponder about.

Come to think about it.. the cops didn't find it - probably the men who arrived at Keiichi's house must have taken it - i'll keep what you said in mind.

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by Vicke

Spoiler for ep4:

There is alot going on in this show, its very hard to come up with some explanation for things when there are so few possible clues. I think im with Bron on the infection/virus/parasite theory since they didnt find any substance abuse. Now assuming that K1 was not infected in the begining of ep1 then some guessings where he could have gotten infected in ep1 is:
A) K1's mom says he should thank Rena for the Pickles that she had given. Which K1 also ate in the morning of ep1?
B) The picknick at the shrine, didnt a priest die there because of some weird disease? Also he ate Rena's home made lunchbox.
C) The punishment game where he gets his face painted with a marker pen.

Oishi-san and Mion know eachother? In ep2 Oishi tells K1 that he specifically must not tell Mion (and his friends) then in ep4 she talks about that she showed him mercy and stuff.

Spoiler for preview of ep5:

Also in the preview to ep5 we see Mion dressed as one of those waitresses that work in the resturant where K1 and Oishi ate? That would explain how Mion new about that

Spoiler:

For the relationshiop between Oishi and Mion, think about the war over the dam construction 5 years ago. Pay extra attention to Mion and Oishi's positions at the time (and now).

Originally Posted by Akuryou

I'm wondering what will they do in the next episode. Keiichi can't be alive for it, so what? D:

Just like kj1980 said, after a chapter ends, things "start over", and a new development will take place. The job for the viewers will be to pay attention to the differences and similarities between each of these "chapters" (1 - 4 was Onikakushi-hen, Watanagashi-hen will most likely go from 5 - 8), as well as "putting the pieces together", using informations you have learned across all the different "chapters".

By the way, I have posted episode 5's preview screenshots back a few pages ago, I'll put them here again (with potential spoiler removed this time ^^; ) in case anyone missed them:

Spoiler for Episode 5 images+comments:

According to the official site's preview, episode 5 will run through the toy shop tournament,
the "doll" event,
Σ (゜д ゜；)
all the way up to the meeting between Keiichi and "Shion".

詩音かわいいよ詩音。^^
あとマゾ。

[Shiroth]

Thanks for the screenshots Sushi-Y~ ^^

It looks like Episode 05's gonna have the heartwarming feelings that episode 01 had, i wonder if it'll be 100% like that.

[Freak Of Nature]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Just like kj1980 said, after a chapter ends, things "start over", and a new development will take place. The job for the viewers will be to pay attention to the differences and similarities between each of these "chapters" (1 - 4 was Onikakushi-hen, Watanagashi-hen will most likely go from 5 - 8), as well as "putting the pieces together", using informations you have learned across all the different "chapters".

Now I have to ask: if things "start over", that means that the events of eps. 1-4 are a series of events that didn't happen, right? Just one possibility in the continuum of events that could result from the same circumstances -- as if we're playing through the various story tracks of the game, looking for the one thread that will lead to a non-catastrophic outcome?

Is that it? Or are those different storylines somehow all true at once?

[Scribble]

Here I am again, really eager to find the answer. This may be interesting, actually:

Spoiler:

Read this:


Brain injury can occur in many ways. Traumatic brain injuries typically result from accidents in which the head strikes an object. This is the most common type of traumatic brain injury. However, other brain injuries, such as those caused by insufficient oxygen, poisoning, or infection, can cause similar deficits.

Mild Traumatic Brain Injury (MTBI) is characterized by one or more of the following symptoms: a brief loss of consciousness, loss of memory immediately before or after the injury, any alteration in mental state at the time of the accident, or focal neurological deficits. In many MTBI cases, the person seems fine on the surface, yet continues to endure chronic functional problems. Some people suffer long-term effects of MTBI, known as postconcussion syndrome (PCS). Persons suffering from PCS can experience significant changes in cognition and personality.
[/B]

Now, in the beginning of episode 2, Kei reads the newspaper article and is shocked. Then Rena appears with her machete, which scares the life out of Kei, who falls onto the wreckage....probably bumping his head in the process. This is perhaps the first step in making Kei go insane? Maybe the image of the knife and scary Rena is printed on his brain, and he associates it with the murder in the newspaper, the first step towards his downfall? I can't really explain it that well, but you get the jist.

As for the syringe, I don't think it exists.

[kron]

Originally Posted by Freak Of Nature

Now I have to ask: if things "start over", that means that the events of eps. 1-4 are a series of events that didn't happen, right? Just one possibility in the continuum of events that could result from the same circumstances -- as if we're playing through the various story tracks of the game, looking for the one thread that will lead to a non-catastrophic outcome?

Is that it? Or are those different storylines somehow all true at once?

in a sense, all true at once. more like different perspective and other things that happened during that time line which weren't seen from keiichi's eyes

[Vicke]

Originally Posted by Scribble

Here I am again, really eager to find the answer. This may be interesting, actually:

Spoiler:

Read this:


Brain injury can occur in many ways. Traumatic brain injuries typically result from accidents in which the head strikes an object. This is the most common type of traumatic brain injury. However, other brain injuries, such as those caused by insufficient oxygen, poisoning, or infection, can cause similar deficits.

Mild Traumatic Brain Injury (MTBI) is characterized by one or more of the following symptoms: a brief loss of consciousness, loss of memory immediately before or after the injury, any alteration in mental state at the time of the accident, or focal neurological deficits. In many MTBI cases, the person seems fine on the surface, yet continues to endure chronic functional problems. Some people suffer long-term effects of MTBI, known as postconcussion syndrome (PCS). Persons suffering from PCS can experience significant changes in cognition and personality.
[/B]

Now, in the beginning of episode 2, Kei reads the newspaper article and is shocked. Then Rena appears with her machete, which scares the life out of Kei, who falls onto the wreckage....probably bumping his head in the process. This is perhaps the first step in making Kei go insane? Maybe the image of the knife and scary Rena is printed on his brain, and he associates it with the murder in the newspaper, the first step towards his downfall? I can't really explain it that well, but you get the jist.

As for the syringe, I don't think it exists.

Spoiler for speculation:

That makes sense. K1 also gets knocked down in ep4 after being chased(?) by psycho Rena, maybe that made it worse as he kills Rena and Mion after he wakes up. But then would K1 sliding his throat be unrelated to his insanity.

[Freak Of Nature]

One thing that really struck me...

I don't know what the truth is about Rena. There's no way of knowing for sure, I think, at this point in the series. But I do know this:

Spoiler:

That scene where Rena's hand is caught in the door, and she is whimpering pitifully "Gomen nasai, gomen nasai" as Keiichi presses against it, moved me deeply. Her voice was so pitiable and abject, so miserable, that the thought came to me that even if she were a psychotic murderess, I pitied her.

And as she stood in the rain afterwards, still apologizing, the scene was clearly meant to be unsettling and eerie and frightening -- but again, it moved me to pity for her.

This anime is rapidly growing on me.

[kron]

Originally Posted by Freak Of Nature

One thing that really struck me...

I don't know what the truth is about Rena. There's no way of knowing for sure, I think, at this point in the series. But I do know this:

Spoiler:

That scene where Rena's hand is caught in the door, and she is whimpering pitifully "Gomen nasai, gomen nasai" as Keiichi presses against it, moved me deeply. Her voice was so pitiable and abject, so miserable, that the thought came to me that even if she were a psychotic murderess, I pitied her.

And as she stood in the rain afterwards, still apologizing, the scene was clearly meant to be unsettling and eerie and frightening -- but again, it moved me to pity for her.

This anime is rapidly growing on me.

are you sure rena was actually there in the rain apologizing afterwards? or was it just what keiichi saw.