Episode 21: Crimson Glow [Spoilers]

[Yebyosh]

Originally Posted by Fighter Volk

Here's a question, for those of you who have read ahead in the manga -- are all the Seven Deadly Sins in league, or do only Lust, Gluttony, and Envy work together? Please answer in as little detail as possible -- just answer something along the lines of 'they all work together' or 'some of them do', etc.

Thanks very, very much!

Some people just get too greedy...

[Yebyosh]

Originally Posted by BigFire

I doubt if Envy can do much against Greed (you'll understand once you see what Greed's power is). And of course, there is Wrath, whom I believe you'll see in action next episode.

Spoiler:

Don't forget that in Chp 31, Greed calls Envy a failed/low class product. Whether its because of spite or what Greed feels of Envy's capability, it does seem to indicate that Envy's combat abilities are way below the other homunculi.

[YuuOminae]

Spoiler:

Busaiku generally means ugly. I took Greed's comment to refer to the fact that Envy's true form was hideous.

[BigFire]

Originally Posted by Fighter Volk

Here's a question, for those of you who have read ahead in the manga -- are all the Seven Deadly Sins in league, or do only Lust, Gluttony, and Envy work together? Please answer in as little detail as possible -- just answer something along the lines of 'they all work together' or 'some of them do', etc.

Thanks very, very much!

Spoiler:

Technically, ALL of the 6 existing Sins serves Father, their creator. Greed has better idea a hundred years ago, and decided to strike out on his own. Lust, Gluttony and Envy are the ones wandering around the country sowing chaos and furthering Father's goal. Thus far, we got EXACTLY 1 frame of Sloth, and he's a chained hulking man working (kind of opposite of his name). In that vain, Wrath for the most part is extremely even tempered (in his nominal guise). But yes, they're all in league with each other, except Greed. Pride doesn't exist yet.

[YuuOminae]

Aah, the spoiler's tag's been taken away!! Anyway, I fixed it.

Spoiler:

Anyway, I've been thinking lately that the Father might actually be Pride. I kind of recall there being a saying that Pride is the father of all Sins so it would make sense I suppose.

Edit: Geh.

[Yebyosh]

Originally Posted by YuuOminae

Spoiler:

Busaiku generally means ugly. I took Greed's comment to refer to the fact that Envy's true form was hideous.

Not the first frame of page 19, the fourth frame.

[Yebyosh]

Originally Posted by BigFire

Spoiler:

Thus far, we got EXACTLY 1 frame of Sloth, and he's a chained hulking man working (kind of opposite of his name). In that vain, Wrath for the most part is extremely even tempered (in his nominal guise). But yes, they're all in league with each other, except Greed. Pride doesn't exist yet.

Spoiler:

It is likely Sloth is chained to keep him at work (else he might have wandered off elsewhere to sleep :P ).

Wrath need not be the aspect of emotional fury. As I see it, he is taking on the aspect of Punishment or Vengeance in the form of anger. He can also be the Divine Retribution for Sins (interesting!!!).
Source of definiton of wrath from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition.

[YuuOminae]

Originally Posted by Yebyosh

Not the first frame of page 19, the fourth frame.

Which would be page 83 in the Gangans. I don't download the raws.
Anyhow.

Spoiler:

Yeah, I figured you were talking about getemono not busaiku a little bit after I posted that. When I read that chapter a month ago, I initially thought he said kedamono.
The implication still, whether it's getemono or busaiku, is that Envy's true form is either extremely ugly or extremely simple (something like the mess that the brothers transmuted), rather than his fighting abilities.
Anyway there was some speculation on one of the older 2ch threads for the manga that Envy's true form is enormous because he said he'll crush Greed, as opposed to beat the crap out of him. Either way, he's either a giant or he's extremely confident that he can totally waste Greed once he's in his true form.

[Yebyosh]

Originally Posted by YuuOminae

Spoiler:

Yeah, I figured you were talking about getemono not busaiku a little bit after I posted that.
The implication still, whether it's getemono or busaiku, is that Envy's true form is either extremely ugly or extremely simple (something like the mess that the brothers transmuted), rather than his fighting abilities.
Anyway there was some speculation on one of the older 2ch threads for the manga that Envy's true form is enormous because he said he'll crush Greed, as opposed to beat the crap out of him. Either way, he's either a giant or he's extremely confident that he can totally waste Greed once he's in his true form.

Spoiler:

Actually I think what Envy said in retort to Greed's insult is the typical "I will crush you" line. That is not to be taken literally since many people has talked of eliminating opponents ala "I will crush you like a cockroach.".

Calling him a low-quality homunculi would reflect on how Greed feels about Envy's qualification. It could be just out of personal conflicts (unjustified insults) or the truth (Envy could be the first homuculi, as such the prototype). Even Lust has taunted that he has the worst personality among the Sins (Vol 2 pg 70), which Envy was sensitive to. This could reflect the low respect Envy has among the Sins. I don't think it was just a friendly ribbing without truth.

Analyzing the sins themselves, Envy naturally could not be as strong as the other Sins. Reasoning being that being envious means having that uncomfortable feeling when desiring what others have, so it is likely Envy has a lesser power levels than what the others possess. The more I think about it, the more natural it seems to me that Envy & Greed could never get along. When you think about it, it seems natural that Envy would be envious of Greed's ever increasing possessions.

What is this 2ch or do you mean Chapter 2?

[SilverHeimdall]

D: Damn this serie just keeps getting better and better.
But they should've left Basque dead, I hate him

[YuuOminae]

By 2ch, I mean www.2ch.net, pretty much one of the big Japanese bulletin boards, if not the biggest.
There's an archive of all the old threads ever since FMA was first serialized back in 2001 at http://fa-log.hp.infoseek.co.jp/

edit: whoopsie


Anyway.

Spoiler:

Lust is probably the oldest of all of them given what Envy said back to her at Lior after she insulted him, so that would rule out Envy being the prototype.

It's still pretty likely that Greed wasn't insulting Envy with regards to his power, but just the way how he naturally is. Like let's say a normal homunculus would be a diamond and whatever Envy is would be cubic zirconium, a cheap imitation. Envy reacted to the busaiku of all things so I'm still betting he's more sensitive about his true form rather than being a weakling.

[sorcererx]

wrong forum

[BigFire]

Oh, AKeep-ANBU version of episode 21 is out. It would seemed that Envy is impersonating Basque Gran, and tricking the remainding guards and Kimberly the Mad Bomber into making more Philosopher's Stone out of the remainding living prisoners.

This episode starts the great divergence from the manga. I feel that they'll retain some storyline from the manga, but the changes are truely great enough to seperate the two.

Spoiler:

It explained how Scar's brother delved into the forbidden art of Alchemy and eventually passed on the task of killing all National Alchemist to him.

Greed is freed after 130 years of imprisonment (in the manga, he is merely elsewhere building his own little kingdom, though that can still happen once he escape).

In the Anime timeline, Shun Tucker didn't get killed by Scar. Although he's publically listed as being executed by the military for the illegal human alchemy research, he remains around. His current condition of being a Chimera is a result of his somewhat obsessive search of recreating Nina.

Scar and Al were attacked by Lust and Gluttony, and getting their ass kicked...

Ed was lead by the Head of Prisoner #44 (in the manga, Lust killed off #44) into a room used to create Philosopher's Stone (imperfect as it were). Shun Tucker stated that with their current research, they cannot perfect the stone liquid via normal alchemy. Ed conceed that he is not a normal Alchemist.

[Yebyosh]

Originally Posted by YuuOminae

By 2ch, I mean www.2ch.net, pretty much one of the big Japanese bulletin boards, if not the biggest.
There's an archive of all the old threads ever since FMA was first serialized back in 2001 at http://ime.nu/fa-log.hp.infoseek.co.jp/

Anyway.

Spoiler:

Lust is probably the oldest of all of them given what Envy said back to her at Lior after she insulted him, so that would rule out Envy being the prototype.

It's still pretty likely that Greed wasn't insulting Envy with regards to his power, but just the way how he naturally is. Like let's say a normal homunculus would be a diamond and whatever Envy is would be cubic zirconium, a cheap imitation. Envy reacted to the busaiku of all things so I'm still betting he's more sensitive about his true form rather than being a weakling.

Thanks for the site! When I finally learn my Japanese (probably a few years ) I can participate in that. But it will be a good bookmark for now.

Spoiler:

Nah, the retort Envy gave back is more like the typical insult given back at a woman (you know... typical insults being hag -> old woman, bitch, sl*t). But it could have that connotation you stated. Until it is revealed, we would only know that Wrath is the youngest so far.

I know Envy is sensitive to his looks. I was commenting more on Greed's perception of Envy. If Greed was to call Envy such demeaning calls but doesn't do that to the other Sins, it is quite likely that Greed sees Envy as not up to their standards like I was trying to say. Either that or they really really hate each other...

Anyways, I just watched Ep21 downloaded a few hours ago (Chinese fansub). I must say that this has diverged quite a bit from the manga and is enjoyable still!

Spoiler:

Greed has escaped. From what I see, he is not going to play a part further in this scenario. Most likely they just used this to establish how Greed & the chimerae gang come about. We should see them later on in the series with their manga story arc.

A good deal of moral issues in the Slicer-Edward scenes. Though they did not give it a conclusion or leaning to either side, it is interesting to note the questionings that were posed.

Did anyone order this melee of the year? In the blue corner, Scar & Alphonse Elric. In the red corner, Lust & Gluttony!!!

A good flashback into Scar's history!!! Some more information that makes you wonder if there are further twists in the story. Young Scar looks so wimpy

Shou Tucker. My, seems like he develops some kind of conscience, or is it? Anyway seems like a lot of alchemists in the anime are practicing Ressurection I'm just curious how he became a chimera. Could he possibly transmute himself or did someone else do it?

Next episode seems to be a doozy. It seems to imply that Alphonse & Scar lost since Lust & Gluttony were in the chamber with Edward (Did Al & Scar manage to escape?). Also I am curious on if they are going to let Bradley loose this early.

Btw Anime Keep has released the English fansub of 21 now...

[dreamless]

No. 66 is sooooo COOL!!!! 我殺故我在 , I KILL, THEREFORE I AM

Maybe Descartes got his idea of Cogito ergo sum from No. 66

[SLOTh]

amazing ep!!! kept me on the edge of my seat the whole way through

[Slade]

dark dark dark. Funny how a friend of mine dismissed this anime to be too kiddish and stopped watching it around the earlier episodes... anyway, for some reasons it feels as though the philosopher stone arc of the storyline is going to come to a conclusion soon... the preview for the next episode seems even more intense than this one...

can't wait

[Kamui4356]

Another great episode. FMA has just pulled past R.O.D. as my favorite currently running series and has earned a place on my top ten list. Anyway, I doubt the philosopher's stone arc will end, but it may be made less of an issue soon, while the story concentrates on other things.

[Wandering_Youth]

Spoiler:

Wow, I heard prison is like hell, but this takes the cake. We got Tucker and Barry back from the dead as freaks of nature along with hellish alchemy experiments going on. Oh my!

[FlyByNite]

Talk about a deal with the devil, Ed's willing to work with Tucker to further his goal of getting the Philosopher Stone.

Even though Tucker turned a little girl, his own daughter Nina, and Ed's friend into a deformed Chimera.

BTW, I gotta say that I haven't seen the manga, but I think having Tucker here is pure genius.