Aquarion EVOL - generic discussion thread

[mayumi]

Originally Posted by Adigard

I have always assumed Zessica felt genuinely bad for giving Mikono such a hard time when she was in the Vector cockpit in ep1+2. She and Cayenne made her basically break down after all.

zessica never pushed mikono to breakdown. mikono does that all on her own or rather kagura did. LOL. zessica was just asking why she is whining to run away after they were already in a mess. what is mikono's crying going to establish.

[miketyson]

The seinen, shoujo, shounen, (and don't forget josei!) thing applied to anime is one of those things that's technically incorrect (as per Shikijin) but is used so widely in the English-speaking fanbase it's not worth fighting against. It's also not really worth arguing over, either, b/c applying the classifications to an original anime is subjective.

Sazanka and Cayenne do seem like a well-suited pair: she's simple-minded and has a sunny disposition, he has a heavy heart and gloomy outlook. Nice observation, Schrade.

The dynamic I'm most curious to see is how Amata and Cayenne start getting along (or not). I can see them teaming up to become team "we must protect Mikono, even if she doesn't want us to", and that being part of what makes Mikono decide to go off to Altair.

I think it's interesting to see how much Amata's personality is starting to resemble Zessica's. Zessica's exhibited a mischievous side we haven't seen -- at all -- from Amata, but other than that they both have this gung-ho, no-hesitation, "all-business" attitude. Doesn't make for good romantic chemistry but does make for excellent comradery and very-good-friend material.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by miketyson

The seinen, shoujo, shounen, (and don't forget josei!) thing applied to anime is one of those things that's technically incorrect (as per Shikijin) but is used so widely in the English-speaking fanbase it's not worth fighting against. It's also not really worth arguing over, either, b/c applying the classifications to an original anime is subjective.

Was just about to say something like this. The seinen, shoujo, etc. labels generally work okay with manga, but they're just not really applicable to to anime. Aquarion isn't particularly seinen or shounen or whatever, hell who says it's targeted only at males at all? Re: Shrade and Cayenne, and also the male characters in general (weren't they designed by the woman who also did Uta no Oujisama? yeah.) Also, lest we forget, this is Kawamori Shouji we're talking about. The guy is a romantic, period - I think one of the reasons why Sousei no Aquarion keeps getting bad reviews is because guys go into it expecting a MANLY MECHA STORY or whatever, and then Touma breaks their brain.

Anyway. On the verge of the inevitable ship war I thought long and hard about the characters and the possibilities and have arrived at the most likely outcome.

Spoiler for for the True End:

(Sorry I probably messed up SD!Kagura's outfit but I have no idea how his clothes work... Btw the pixelated image was originally Apollonius and Touma, because whatever.)

Btw, I just rewatched the relevant parts of ep 6 and realized I misremembered (big surprise there): Amata has the helpful flashback to Cayenne's vision (that, don't forget, pretty much the whole Neo Deava had seen), and seeing Kagura apparently make Mikono miserable is what gives him the push to attack Kagura. Later on when he's hiding with Mikono he says something along the lines of "yes, I also have a feeling I know him" but to me this didn't sound particularly ~deep~ because well, vision. But who knows.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by Hyack

Are you gay?

You shouldn't make assumptions about people's gender on the internet.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Later on when he's hiding with Mikono he says something along the lines of "yes, I also have a feeling I know him" but to me this didn't sound particularly ~deep~ because well, vision. But who knows.

That's not particularly meaningful because Mikono saw the same vision. When they talk about having a familiar feeling about Kagura, they aren't referring to the vision.

Edit: That picture you made is pretty funny.

[miketyson]

I'm too lazy and busy to go rewatch stuff to confirm, but I'm pretty sure that the way Amata phrased "feeling like I know him" in ep6 used the same construction he used in ep1 when he knew how to launch Aquarion (which, fwiw, came *before* he saw any visions for the first time). Granted, it's a pretty common construction, but Okada's generally careful with repeated language constructs. I could also be misremembering ep 1.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Was just about to say something like this. The seinen, shoujo, etc. labels generally work okay with manga, but they're just not really applicable to to anime. Aquarion isn't particularly seinen or shounen or whatever, hell who says it's targeted only at males at all? Re: Shrade and Cayenne, and also the male characters in general (weren't they designed by the woman who also did Uta no Oujisama? yeah.) Also, lest we forget, this is Kawamori Shouji we're talking about. The guy is a romantic, period - I think one of the reasons why Sousei no Aquarion keeps getting bad reviews is because guys go into it expecting a MANLY MECHA STORY or whatever, and then Touma breaks their brain.

Anyway. On the verge of the inevitable ship war I thought long and hard about the characters and the possibilities and have arrived at the most likely outcome.

Spoiler for for the True End:

(Sorry I probably messed up SD!Kagura's outfit but I have no idea how his clothes work... Btw the pixelated image was originally Apollonius and Touma, because whatever.)

Btw, I just rewatched the relevant parts of ep 6 and realized I misremembered (big surprise there): Amata has the helpful flashback to Cayenne's vision (that, don't forget, pretty much the whole Neo Deava had seen), and seeing Kagura apparently make Mikono miserable is what gives him the push to attack Kagura. Later on when he's hiding with Mikono he says something along the lines of "yes, I also have a feeling I know him" but to me this didn't sound particularly ~deep~ because well, vision. But who knows.

TBF there's plenty of manga's that are targeted at both males and females, they just typically have a primary demographic due to the magazine they're published in e.g Reborn. Such classifications are fine, everything especially films are classified by it's age rating which is obviously influenced by it's primary demographic. I just saw this as a typical super robot anime which spans across children (really teens) and adults e.g PG 13, 12 etc because of the content of the show rather than say 18+ like some people were implying.

[Nochgo]

The next episode seems to be Zessica episode. Hurray As for the episode itself, I thought it was pretty weak. At least we now know why hax Shrade can't pilot Aquarion.

[Lord of Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by Hyack

Are you gay?

If I were, do you think I would orgasm to see a hetero couple? How did you come up with that? You act as if I wanted Amata to give Kagura a lap dance (which is actually appealing to me because I LOVE YAOI) Is it my tag name? It's derived from Nurarihyon No Mago. I assure you I am not gay ...Not that it matters

I'm just a REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY HORNY female with a 2-D complex and a thing for brash, rude, cocky, trash-talking, brutish orange haired and VERY male characters in black with a short temper

I just think we have different ideas of what a "good moment" is. For example

Originally Posted by Hyack

Episode 5, at the end when you could see there was ALMOST!!! ALMOST LOVE...(that's not quite love)love in the air..

You consider a sugary sweet moment that came with a cheesy background music that one would find in a Leslie Nielsen Romantic Parody a "good moment" ....

Originally Posted by Hyack

until Kagura showed up and ruined it.

and my idea of a good moment is, one where bad ass character makes bad ass entry, establishes that he is the man, in front of the other dude, making him look like a sucka, snatching up woman and declares her his right in front of the other dude she was jus having a romantic moment with, and then licking her, and telling her in a sexy voice "she smells delicious" which effected her libido and she got so hot, she hit the ground


Like Pierre said in the OS..." Oi Oi saying no while liking it eh?" (the red areas were spreading to their genitals)



You like "saccharin" and I like *imagine I am purring speaking like Eartha Kitt when she played Catwoman when you read the next line..or else you won't get the full effect of my impersonation "

and I like...rrrrrrr HOT SEX ON PLATTER. It's simply a matter of tastes.(That was a pretty cool imitation right? ) Ours differ..Batman...

Although to be honest I was just teasing you at first--but while watching and getting screenies but then I saw something that made me SMILE very brightly --notice how they keep focusing on that monitor on her arm. Amata had an effect but it was just a little--Kagura overwhelmed her instantly. I could be wrong but they made it seem like Amata doesn't effect her the way Kagura does and she just met him. Yet her "passion" is off the charts when it comes to Kagura and it's just little tiny bit when it comes to Amata...Bites for Amata, huh?

...I crack me up sometimes


@ no one in particular...
*Um yeah..I do know Seinen from Shounen And yes they do apply to anime. Just some people get it wrong--Aquarion is a Seinen and that's all I'm going to say on the matter. *

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

It's not that I have low expectations I have different expectations, your expecting some NTR crap where the main woman runs of with the other guy leaving the lead heart broken, I'm expecting typical super robot stuff, with hot bloodeness and some love like Guerran Lagann. Considering this is a super robot anime, I don't expect to be wrong in this assumption though it may end up becoming a bit more mature like the typical mecha anime.

Wrong super robot show to base your expectations on, considering you should be expecting more of the same from the prequel. And from what little I remember of what happened... let's just say don't expect old-school style Super Robot lols.

Not to mention how to even consider Kagura/Mikono to be NTR, if they so happen to be 'fated' together, on the off chance they are the reincarnations of a certain couple 12,000 years (or even 24,000 years) before? I mean, depending on who's what incarnation, it might very well be Amata who be doing the "NTR'ing".

(But really, love triangles are NTR now? Might as well say Ichika is NTR'ing Kaito away from Kanna in AnoNatsu, for example. XD)

[miketyson]

It's interesting how people see things differently. When I look at Kagura, I see him as one of those guys who acts all gangster in public but actually has no job and lives in his mom's basement. Sure, his parents bought him a cool ride, but if he keeps wrecking it they'll get tired of paying for repairs and he'll be stuck at home forum-posting about his hot kuso onna in Canada (erh, I mean in Vega).

I mean he's lost every fight he's been in (twice to rank-amateur Amata, twice to dying-sick-boy Schrade), his bosses and coworkers are always getting the best of him, and he's generally more "left to do this thing" than "too strong to prevent from doing his thing". The only reason he's at all threatening is because Mikono's got a thing for him and there's a vision of them getting married.

This is probably a minor flaw in the writing: if he's supposed to be a real tough guy, it would've been
a good idea to show him winning some fights in Altair, or something. As-is it's just the apparent love-rivalry that makes him something other than a joke like Daryl in GC. Which is too bad, b/c as seemingly a major character he should be more-developed than he currently is.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by miketyson

It's interesting how people see things differently. When I look at Kagura, I see him as one of those guys who acts all gangster in public but actually has no job and lives in his mom's basement. Sure, his parents bought him a cool ride, but if he keeps wrecking it they'll get tired of paying for repairs and he'll be stuck at home forum-posting about his hot kuso onna in Canada (erh, I mean in Vega).

I mean he's lost every fight he's been in (twice to rank-amateur Amata, twice to dying-sick-boy Schrade), his bosses and coworkers are always getting the best of him, and he's generally more "left to do this thing" than "too strong to prevent from doing his thing". The only reason he's at all threatening is because Mikono's got a thing for him and there's a vision of them getting married.

This is probably a minor flaw in the writing: if he's supposed to be a real tough guy, it would've been
a good idea to show him winning some fights in Altair, or something. As-is it's just the apparent love-rivalry that makes him something other than a joke like Daryl in GC. Which is too bad, b/c as seemingly a major character he should be more-developed than he currently is.

I think the whole point is that he's disadvantage in every single encounter but that doesn't stop him from going out to try and get Mikono, if he wasn't getting pulled back forcefully he'd probably go as far getting himself killed trying. I said it before, but he's almost got a protagonist vibe to him where all the odds are stacked against him (as they normally would be for a protagonist chasing the girl). This is a way to show determination in the face of great odds, and is a tried and true trope for how to frame a would-be hero on his way to becoming a hero. Only difference, right now, is that Kagura is presented as an antagonist but, more so, as a puppet to the people behind him who let him do as he pleases because his actions favor their objectives. (This seems to be on purpose, especially considering the writing staff, and is a key way to keep Kagura as an identifiable character for the audience and one that they can support when the deck gets shuffled... in that episode that we're not going to talk about. )

His personality is a trait, it shows that he lacks refinement, but his actions show that he's not quite as much a brute as his words would let on. He's naive, is probably the best way to put it. He's led a life in one way, and he's grown very accustomed to it and how he's been treated in that life. Now that he's found something that he yearns for (and of his own choosing), much as a kid who wants a ball he can't afford, he's hit by a cold wall of reality and literal helplessness in the face of his opposition.

[miketyson]

Yeah, talking about that episode would totally be like, totally 悪い、ね (lol). I think you're right, though: what they're trying to do is give him that "protagonist vibe" (like you said), and establish some differences-of-opinion between him and the rest of the Altair high command.

Beyond that, though, there's a bit of a writer's checkmate: it's too soon for him to win fights against Neo-Deava (or capture Mikono, etc.), so he's going to keep getting beat. The writers try to mitigate that by putting him up against Schrade, but because of the way Schrade's design it doesn't necessarily work (he doesn't seem tough even though we're told he's the strongest). They could've shown more of him being #1 on Altair, except that that's also out, because they want to preserve Altair's mystery for the time being. Interesting situation, and one of the few snags I've seen this show run into so far (and it's a minor one at that).

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by miketyson

Yeah, talking about that episode would totally be like, totally 悪い、ね (lol). I think you're right, though: what they're trying to do is give him that "protagonist vibe" (like you said), and establish some differences-of-opinion between him and the rest of the Altair high command.

Beyond that, though, there's a bit of a writer's checkmate: it's too soon for him to win fights against Neo-Deava (or capture Mikono, etc.), so he's going to keep getting beat. The writers try to mitigate that by putting him up against Schrade, but because of the way Schrade's design it doesn't necessarily work (he doesn't seem tough even though we're told he's the strongest). They could've shown more of him being #1 on Altair, except that that's also out, because they want to preserve Altair's mystery for the time being. Interesting situation, and one of the few snags I've seen this show run into so far (and it's a minor one at that).

The reason Kagura kept losing I think, is because he keeps getting side-tracked by Mikono's scent, and for whatever reason he just can't focus on anything else.

Try picturing the final scene from King Kong, where Kagura is the beast and Mikono is the beauty, and the three vectors are the planes If he's ever going to die, that's how it's gonna happen

[Vena]

Originally Posted by miketyson

Yeah, talking about that episode would totally be like, totally 悪い、ね (lol). I think you're right, though: what they're trying to do is give him that "protagonist vibe" (like you said), and establish some differences-of-opinion between him and the rest of the Altair high command.

Beyond that, though, there's a bit of a writer's checkmate: it's too soon for him to win fights against Neo-Deava (or capture Mikono, etc.), so he's going to keep getting beat. The writers try to mitigate that by putting him up against Schrade, but because of the way Schrade's design it doesn't necessarily work (he doesn't seem tough even though we're told he's the strongest). They could've shown more of him being #1 on Altair, except that that's also out, because they want to preserve Altair's mystery for the time being. Interesting situation, and one of the few snags I've seen this show run into so far (and it's a minor one at that).

I don't think they are in writer's checkmate, I think its playing out as intended. They're using Kagura in two ways here, both to their advantage: he's being framed as the underdog with an *odds stacked against* protagonist feel (making his character likable/pitiable/relate-able, basically keeping him from falling into Mustache Twirling Villain categories), at the same time the writer's are given an opportunity to show off the powers of the others, the forms of Aquarion, and of the Aquarion itself (and Shrade). Its also of a point that Kagura's skill has been shown and established, and we know that he's good at what he does because he trashed six vectors and their Aquaria modes without any trouble, but he's since been getting compared to the Aquarion (in tern using him (and Jin) as a means of showing off the Aquarion). They don't need to show us anything from Altair to confirm his skill, they did it by use of the Aquaria and Jin's similar failure.

He's also getting a good deal of screen time in which he can be developed, and during which we can see that he's pretty naive at his core. Compare him to Jin... about whom we know next to nothing and who's current role is more or less entirely limited to being a villain with whom you really can't relate.

tldr; Kagura's failures are being used as a way to flush out his humanity as well as the abilities of the Aquarion and its pilots.

If the writer's goal is for people to find reason to cheer on the underdog to win the girl, I'd say its working. And, frankly, given how much romance takes a focus in this show any good resolution to the triangles is going to need a good basis on which to stand and long development time. They've really been pushing Kagura's side of it, and this episode they introduced a fracture in what any other story would have probably run with till the end in Amata/Mikono. (That's not to say that it won't ultimately resolve that way but at the rate its going, Kagura's probably going to have to die for it to be believable. (I'm not even factoring in Zessica since there's not much on that side yet but the next few episodes should start developing if she's even going to be a part of all of this. We have an idea where the next three episodes lead, that already puts us at near the midpoint and, barring any break neck twisting of the plot, things should start getting clearer by that point.))

[DragoonKain3]

And I just found out that our resident loli is voiced by a veteran seiyuu... most well known as Cardcaptor Sakura. Man I'm slow, but hey, can't blame me as I watched CCS in English.

[miketyson]

Chaos2Frozen: I won't be able to get that image out of my head, now. I can totally see it, too: use the tower from eps 5 and 6, super-sized Kagura holding Mikono in one hand -- periodically taking a nice sniff, eliciting a shower of sparks -- while batting @ vectors with his free hand. Someone with drawing skill, please?

Vena: I'm running out of steam but you make a *lot* of good points, so I mostly agree. One thing I definitely saw differently was Jin's "defeat": I saw his mission as a success, he was there to toy with the Aquarion and suss out its abilities, and he was never "seriously" trying to fight it (let alone beat it); he got a bit surprised by that punch, but still got away with the info he came for. Kagura's fights have seemed more like "real fights", he's lost, and so seemed to me more like real defeats. The difference in how Izumo treated them afterwards seems to reinforce this, but it's all pretty subjective and down to differences of interpretation this early on, I think.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by miketyson

Chaos2Frozen: I won't be able to get that image out of my head, now. I can totally see it, too: use the tower from eps 5 and 6, super-sized Kagura holding Mikono in one hand -- periodically taking a nice sniff, eliciting a shower of sparks -- while batting @ vectors with his free hand. Someone with drawing skill, please?

No need to super-size, that's what his Mecha is for

[Vena]

Originally Posted by miketyson

Vena: I'm running out of steam but you make a *lot* of good points, so I mostly agree. One thing I definitely saw differently was Jin's "defeat": I saw his mission as a success, he was there to toy with the Aquarion and suss out its abilities, and he was never "seriously" trying to fight it (let alone beat it); he got a bit surprised by that punch, but still got away with the info he came for. Kagura's fights have seemed more like "real fights", he's lost, and so seemed to me more like real defeats. The difference in how Izumo treated them afterwards seems to reinforce this, but it's all pretty subjective and down to differences of interpretation this early on, I think.

That's valid, I didn't actually think of it like that, but it really does go to reinforce that Kagura is being played as an unwitting pawn of sorts by his own side.

[mayumi]

this might be far out but what if we pair the guys in the ending in the opposite way.

amata(first) - kagura(last)
mikono - girl with green hair
cayenne - yunoha(will be filled after next episode)
sharde - zessica

mix and andy - the book

kinda maybe seeing 2 different sets of characters from the 2 worlds or something.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Vena

I don't think they are in writer's checkmate, I think its playing out as intended. They're using Kagura in two ways here, both to their advantage: he's being framed as the underdog with an *odds stacked against* protagonist feel (making his character likable/pitiable/relate-able, basically keeping him from falling into Mustache Twirling Villain categories), at the same time the writer's are given an opportunity to show off the powers of the others, the forms of Aquarion, and of the Aquarion itself (and Shrade). Its also of a point that Kagura's skill has been shown and established, and we know that he's good at what he does because he trashed six vectors and their Aquaria modes without any trouble, but he's since been getting compared to the Aquarion (in tern using him (and Jin) as a means of showing off the Aquarion). They don't need to show us anything from Altair to confirm his skill, they did it by use of the Aquaria and Jin's similar failure.

He's also getting a good deal of screen time in which he can be developed, and during which we can see that he's pretty naive at his core. Compare him to Jin... about whom we know next to nothing and who's current role is more or less entirely limited to being a villain with whom you really can't relate.

tldr; Kagura's failures are being used as a way to flush out his humanity as well as the abilities of the Aquarion and its pilots.

If the writer's goal is for people to find reason to cheer on the underdog to win the girl, I'd say its working. And, frankly, given how much romance takes a focus in this show any good resolution to the triangles is going to need a good basis on which to stand and long development time. They've really been pushing Kagura's side of it, and this episode they introduced a fracture in what any other story would have probably run with till the end in Amata/Mikono. (That's not to say that it won't ultimately resolve that way but at the rate its going, Kagura's probably going to have to die for it to be believable. (I'm not even factoring in Zessica since there's not much on that side yet but the next few episodes should start developing if she's even going to be a part of all of this. We have an idea where the next three episodes lead, that already puts us at near the midpoint and, barring any break neck twisting of the plot, things should start getting clearer by that point.))

Umm Kagura's not the protagonist of this series, he's an anti-hero at best and typical main rival though. I also wouldn't exactly say you were supposed to route for him considering his abduction still has very bad connotations (Mikono doesn't exactly look happy in that vision and his entire plan is still to take her pretty much against her will. It would take a lot more for explanation of his goals in all this for them to expect the viewers to truely route for him.

Really that's the defining factor in how producers plan for the story to take. Amata is probably more of the type of guy that's designed to be routed for and isn't exactly the imposing take him down sorta guy. He also hasn't really done anything. At most you could say they expect the viewers to route for both of them but so far it's still very much in Amata's court.

It's strange to think about it rival wise but Kagura really isn't particularily smart and Amata's actually probably a fair bit more intellgient than him (and Amata isn't exactly a shining beacon of intelligience, he's not dumb just not particularily smart). Considering typically it's the rivals that are the underdogs and are typically a lot smarter than their protagonist counterparts, this certainly is strange.

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Wrong super robot show to base your expectations on, considering you should be expecting more of the same from the prequel. And from what little I remember of what happened... let's just say don't expect old-school style Super Robot lols.

Not to mention how to even consider Kagura/Mikono to be NTR, if they so happen to be 'fated' together, on the off chance they are the reincarnations of a certain couple 12,000 years (or even 24,000 years) before? I mean, depending on who's what incarnation, it might very well be Amata who be doing the "NTR'ing".

(But really, love triangles are NTR now? Might as well say Ichika is NTR'ing Kaito away from Kanna in AnoNatsu, for example. XD)

Neh I was talking more about the random dude from the opposite side coming in and taking away your girl when you were in love. How isn't that NTR. Heck the dude was about to abduct the girl most probably against her will? I think your the one who needs to check the definition of what NTR is. Kagura's quite litterally out to steal his girl.