2008-06-10, 12:13 | Link #1461 | |
White Empress
Graphic Designer
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They both saved each other's lives on several occasions. What's the point in discussing it any further? Last edited by Airi; 2008-06-10 at 13:49. |
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2008-06-10, 12:25 | Link #1462 | |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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But that's just how silly this argument is getting. |
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2008-06-10, 12:28 | Link #1463 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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As for Shinjuku, once again, there are always other opportunities. Kallen's group was very clearly not the only terrorist group out there, right? All we need is Lloyd to continue searching through Honourary Britannian ranks for a pilot for Lancelot, Suzaku to continue to be the best candidate for it, and terrorist attacks like the hotel hijacking in episode 8 to keep happening, and Suzaku would have managed to get noticed. Quote:
And that's not even to say, that without Zero Euphemia wouldn't be dead! Maybe without Clovis dying it would have taken much longer for them to meet (or not--Cornelia has complained about Clovis's weakness and incompetence already so it wouldn't be surprising if she had moved in to help anyway) but there still would have been someone out there who could understand him and believe in him and share his dream. Then Suzaku wouldn't need to be a Rounds, he could just be the knight of a princess who 'had an idea while in high school'. ... You guys, it's pretty simple. Both Suzaku's and Lelouch's existance helped each other out but they both still possess the skills and motivations to make a difference individually. There is ample evidence that Suzaku is extraordinary, that he has his own strengths and a potential connection to geass that there is no doubt that something would have happened with Suzaku down the road, with or without Zero. I don't know much about it, but why don't you try reading Suzaku of the Counterattack to try to see things from his perspective. edit: lol, I guess Airi and SoldierofDarkness are better debaters than me. They're right, this is pretty much a ridiculous discussion and I shouldn't have bothered with such trollish posts. |
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2008-06-10, 15:44 | Link #1468 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Better to have died on their feet then to be living on their Knees.
As for Suzaku, for a guy who claims he doesn't like killing he sure as hell kills a lot of people...aka hypocrite. Killing his own father (patricide) just because of the fact that he doesn't want to die...aka pathetic. Selling out his own best friend (not to mention that this best friend saved his life) just so that he can be promoted...aka backstabber. At least Lelouch is faithfully pursuing his goal of creating a world where the oppression of Britannia doesn't exist and where his sister can live in peace. On the other hand Suzaku spent the entire first season following orders (blindly) without trying to make even the slightest change that he wanted to do. |
2008-06-10, 15:49 | Link #1469 | |
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
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Would you rather die meaningless (Britannians will get the sakuradite anyways) or be alive as a slave/a number (at least you may still have a future)? Like Lulu, the Japanese's weakness was always their pride. Then Britannian pierced through and broke them of their illusion of invincibility. Better be crushed sooner than later. "there is no winner in a war, just 1 side that loses more than the other side" quoted from a novel PS: Please PM me for any ideas for Frames or Geass powers for a fanfiction I am writing. EDIT: yes, Suzaku may be a hypocrite, but he believes that he is fighting for the common good in his own way. There is no "right" way, much like Lelouch (this is not right either since he killed countless Britannians civilians, soldiers and manipulated the Japanese to be his army he doesn't care for them, they are just pawns.) As for the backstabbing, analyse this. If you had a friend who was responsible for killing your family and wants to rob you of your house. Would you go to the police and turn him in? I am actually surprised that Suzaku didn't kill Lulu at end of season 1.
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2008-06-10, 15:56 | Link #1470 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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The dead don't have to worry about who gets what, they are at peace. "Few have the strength to risk death for the pride and respect that humans deserve. Because you do not need pride or respect just to stay alive…like dogs. Humans are weak against terrorism and violence, and under such control their only desire is to survive no matter what. They lose all pride and respect." PS: Lelouch doesn't say hypocritical crap like "please surrender, i don't want to kill" and then kills anyway (like Suzaku did in R2 against the EU forces). Lelouch is honest about what he does and many of his own Black Knight members know he is willing to sacrifice anyone if needed. He may be cold and callous but at least he is honest about his methods. |
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2008-06-10, 15:59 | Link #1471 | |
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
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True about that. Well humans are still animals. But still, I believe both Lulu and Suzaku are both fighting for lost causes. Suzaku wants to change people from the inside. (won't work) Lulu wants a peaceful world (won't work unless he Geassed everyone or kills everyone and rules the world with himself as Adam and Nunnaly as Eve.) I am beginning to think that Charles allowed Lulu to live because he knows that Lelouch is unconsciously following his footsteps.
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2008-06-10, 16:08 | Link #1472 | |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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As for the backstabbing part, do I remind you that Lelouch "techincally" betrayed Suzaku in turning Euphie into a massacre princess? |
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2008-06-10, 16:10 | Link #1473 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Age: 32
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If people believed that dying would be better than living like that, then, as much as I dislike saying this, but what's stopping them from killing themselves? I mean, I'm pretty sure that Britannians won't going out of thier way to make sure that the Japanese aren't commiting sucicide.
PS. I don't see what's so honest about planting a bomb on a group's ship, denoatating the bomb, lying about the the explosion and using the death of the group from that bomb to further your own goals. |
2008-06-10, 16:14 | Link #1475 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
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2008-06-10, 16:15 | Link #1476 | |
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
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Quoted from GW endless waltz. EDIT: Actually Suzaku said, "Surrender, I don't want to fight (not kill)" but war is all about taking lives. It can't be said that either Lulu/Suzaku are righteous. Lulu is also a hypocrite, how can you achieve a peaceful world through violence? (well he succeeded in my fanfiction )
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2008-06-10, 16:18 | Link #1477 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
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2008-06-10, 16:21 | Link #1478 | |
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
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I didn't see him apologising to Suzaku for "accidentally" geassing her. But rather he said "Euphemia happily massacred Japanese and yet for that woman..." If this is his version of taking responsibility, well it's a bad joke.
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2008-06-10, 16:21 | Link #1479 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I'm not talking about japanese 'commiting sucicide' for no reason, they should fight to the death. After all even in real life thats why the US nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, because they feared the ferocity of the Japanese warrior spirit. Ahh but Euphemia was geassed by accident, not on purpose. Hence the only way to stop her was to kill her, otherwise she would've ended up killing millions of Japanese. And Lelouch decided if he had to kill his own half sister, then he might as well use her 'accidental' genocidal actions to his advantage. Strategies and tactics of war means using anything to your advantage. Violence and warfare has solved more problems in history than any other method. Look at the recent examples: WWI and WWII, it was force, violence and war that stopped Hitler. Not diplomacy or politics. |
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2008-06-10, 16:22 | Link #1480 | |
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
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But what you're saying is that he is justified no matter what crimes he is commiting against humanity.
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