About Shinn and Kira...

[Phantom-Takaya]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

What about Kira and Rey they are both match and until Ehhhh?

Rey? I doubt he was much of a match to Kira. If Kira was using Strike or Freedom, then maybe he would have a better chance.

[Dark Shikra]

Originally Posted by Phantom-Takaya

Rey? I doubt he was much of a match to Kira. If Kira was using Strike or Freedom, then maybe he would have a better chance.

Rey would have been better off fighting with Athrun. He is more calm and won't be affected by Athrun's words. And if Shinn was fighting with Kira till the end he won't be defeated by just words either.

They screwed up. Or if Rey was more calm to have pit Shinn and him against Kira in Strike Freedom then they would have more chance when both sides are covering for each other. Rey can screw around with Shinn's mind from being influenced by Athrun and the fight would have been so much more interesting when Rey stunned Kira with the fact that he is sorta Rau.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by monstert

What else could it be? When I point out the error in your claim, the defense you came up with, which is also wrong (at least, in your case), is that opinion is an evaluation and cannot be wrong. Wow, you can't even make a solid case that Kira was a failure for one episode without side-stepping the issues at hand. And now you're claiming he's a failure for an entire series? Now that's amusing.

U got me wrong and that's the whole problem. I was noting that Destiny Kira was a failure from the very beginning. The episode was just a part of the whole chain of disappointment about the character. LOL

Originally Posted by Westlo

Don't kid yourself, he was a main character in the second half, his name did go above Shinn's on the credits right?

Call it what you want. I was just following the logic of the other people participating in the discussion. One could choose: Kira was a main character that just did not undergo proper development (pretty much like any other Destiny character, but it was the worst,IMO) or he was a non-main character with too much screentime. Same boring and unsuccessful bull**** his Destiny image was to me.

Originally Posted by Dark Shikra

Oh I really don't care about what you think about people and what you think about how Kira is a failure and how disappointed you are. I am just laughing to the fact that you've lost when monstert clearly pointed out that Kira successfully completed his mission in phase 34: to flee. And then you try to cover it up by straying somewhere else, talking about this non-main characterness stuff again and saying it's all opinion yada yada yada.

You don't care. I don't care. I was just stating my opinion. Not trying to "cover anything up" like you try to impute here. That's funny.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

U got me wrong and that's the whole problem. I was noting that Destiny Kira was a failure from the very beginning. The episode was just a part of the whole chain of disappointment about the character. LOL

If you say the one episode is part of the problem, and yet your analysis on that episode itself is wrong, then perhaps you should rethink your assessment of Kira's so called failure on the whole series.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

Call it what you want. I was just following the logic of the other people participating in the discussion. One could choose: Kira was a main character that just did not undergo proper development (pretty much like any other Destiny character, but it was the worst,IMO) or he was a non-main character with too much screentime. Same boring and unsuccessful bull**** his Destiny image was to me.

Look I don't even like Kira and thought he was worthless in Destiny (well the entire show was) but to not call him a main character, especially in the second half is pretty much retarded period. But yeah you know better than the people who made the show and listed him #1 on the credits list It doesn't matter if you think they used him wrongly or that he had no growth, none of that stuff fucking matters, he's a main character period.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by monstert

If you say the one episode is part of the problem, and yet your analysis on that episode itself is wrong, then perhaps you should rethink your assessment of Kira's so called failure on the whole series.

Well, it's you who missed my whole point. I'm talking about Kira's failure as a character. Not as a soldier and fighter. They made him invincible after all. Overally, Shinn lost in the series, but to me him destroying the Freedom was quite an achievement.

Originally Posted by Westlo

Look I don't even like Kira and thought he was worthless in Destiny (well the entire show was) but to not call him a main character, especially in the second half is pretty much retarded period. But yeah you know better than the people who made the show and listed him #1 on the credits list It doesn't matter if you think they used him wrongly or that he had no growth, none of that stuff fucking matters, he's a main character period.

Now I'd like to ask you a question: What's your point? I already said I accept your notion of him. Got a problem with that?

[monster]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

Well, it's you who missed my whole point. I'm talking about Kira's failure as a character. Not as a soldier and fighter. They made him invincible after all. Overally, Shinn lost in the series, but to me him destroying the Freedom was quite an achievement.

Then what was the whole point of saying Kira failed in his objective in phase 34?

[Paladinoras]

Wow, ppl, chill

No flame wars now. . . .

[Sander RX]

About Akatsuki, the logic there is it can reflect ANY beam energy.

Is that why it deflects beamsaber blades and beamboomerang blades that ARE beam energy?
Yata-no-Kagami is a beam repulsion system made of countless tiny mirrors and while Im ok with it deflecting what a mirror would deflect,I cant see it deflecting a huge number of Positrons(Positron+Electron=Annihilation...dont tell me those mirrors dont have Electrons in them) moving in a straight line,also there should be a reason why it reflects green beams,but deflects everything else.

People coming back isn't impossible nor is it illogical. The author/writer can do anything they want with their characters.

Sure,they can have characters survive battleship cannons to the face without it being what you call "cheating the audience".

By the way he did not slash Destroy in two pieces vertically and he slashed, he did not thrust.

Dont quite get what you said there,are you saying that Destiny did that without an accelerated descent?All I can remember Destiny doing cool after-slash pose(cause posing is never a lethal mistake in SEED) and a part Destroy sliding off as a result of the unit becoming two half-a-units...
If Arondight was capable of that,then Destroy that Shinn repeatedly slashed would fall into pieces.

Statement that nuclear reactors have endless supply is a theory. But when did Destiny ran out of power? You mean when Kira came back in Strike Freedom and pissed the hell out of him?

The one that was edited in Specials.
And what about the beam changing?Beam dissipation maybe?Why does it only dissipate when shot at Kira?Kira is so awesome that some beams cant stand his greatness and dissipate from fear!!!

He can't afford to try finding weaknesses. He's one person fighting against one big mobile suit plus its body guards. And he's tried both long range fire and getting in close, both of which failed.

So its better to keep blasting the beamshield and hopin to overheat the generators?

Exactly, by that point Kira's main objective is to flee with the Archangel. He is not really on the attack here.

And when he sees that Shinn clearly wont let him escape?How about going tactical on Shinn's sorry ass and atleast deal enough damage to him to buy time?

[kaito-kid]

And when he sees that Shinn clearly wont let him escape?How about going tactical on Shinn's sorry ass and atleast deal enough damage to him to buy time?

I'm not sure but Kira actually destroyed 2 of the 3 Impulse Gundam in that battle(Minerva had enough spare parts to build 3 Impulse) ...And he was in defense

[Neku]

Wow. What a partay.

Originally Posted by Sander RX

So its better to keep blasting the beamshield and hopin to overheat the generators?

I'll presume that attacking or, as you phrased, continuously blasting, actions that would at least halt Destroy's destructiveness even for a moment, is better than flying around, doing nothing at all.

And when he sees that Shinn clearly wont let him escape?How about going tactical on Shinn's sorry ass and atleast deal enough damage to him to buy time?

Apparently Kira dealt enough damage. But Shinn was just too advantageous.

[Eagles]

Originally Posted by monstert

Neither a personality change (and yes, Kira does have a personality) nor a change in how one approaches a fight is required for character development. And besides, those things already happened to Kira in SEED. And since this is the same character, those are already a part of his development.

What Kira faced in DESTINY, instead, is his role in the big picture. Back in SEED, Kira merely struggled with the problems that's in front of him. But the events in DESTINY, and especially Dullindal, has made Kira (at least, in my opinion) realized that just because the fighting has stopped doesn't mean the underlying problem has been solved. That's why Kira did not just go back to a remote island. Just that one realization is an undeniable growth in his character. By the end of SEED, everything seems to be finished for him, but by the end of DESTINY, things are just beginning.

hmm I actually see where you're coming from, although I disagree. For one we don't actually know what Kira is doing at the end of Destiny, it took the SEs to show us Kira not returning to the island. So by your definition of his character development (unless I've misunderstood) it took the epilogue of the compilation movies to show his change of character.

Secondly, and I think this is the more important point, I personally don't see Kira doing anything other than continueing to follow Lacus around, and so I do deny that Kira did grow as a character.

**************************

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

I'm not sure but Kira actually destroyed 2 of the 3 Impulse Gundam in that battle(Minerva had enough spare parts to build 3 Impulse) ...And he was in defense

Actually Kira landed one hit on the Impulse, taking off an arm and the head. Shinn then calls for his spare parts and switches into another Force pack. The second time Shinn calls for the sword pack but doesn't actually switch anything, he just pulls a boomerang from the pack to turn the Freedom around and then pulls the ASS to finish the Freedom off. That's when Kira lands his second hit, taking the Impulse's head while the Impulse impales the Freedom's stomach.

**************************
As for the whole phase 34 battle, I think you guys are just looking at it from different points of view. It was a combat victory for Shinn, nobody will deny that Freedom went down.

It was a strategic victory for Kira, AA escaped with Cagalli and eventually made it to Orb. On top of that Kira somehow surivived the destruction of Freedom so Shinn didn't accomplish his personal goal.

[wingdarkness]

^LOL, yeah it was a strategic victory if escaping a nuclear holocaust needing just a few bandages was Kira’s ultimate plan … Geez louise, letting the AA escape when both a Taunhauser blast and a nuclear explosion are the obstacles that you SOMEHOW avoid to validate the plan…Yeah that’s mission accomplished …The same people who wanna scream plot-cheat on Shinn’s side conveniently forget the ring of fire Kira and the AA ridiculously escaped from…Alas I don’t have the energy or the fervent hate of GSD right now to totally pwn a debate on this like I used too…

[PzIVf3]

Ha ha yeah you right its unexplainable how Kira survive in a nuclear blast in just second w/ half of the Freedom body and the head still intact Even Athrun still unexplainable survive the Anti-ship sword almost hit near of the cockpit and fall into the sea and explode.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

^LOL, yeah it was a strategic victory if escaping a nuclear holocaust needing just a few bandages was Kira’s ultimate plan …

The reactor didn't explode. And even if it did it still won't trigger a nuclear explosion.

Ha ha yeah you right its unexplainable how Kira survive in a nuclear blast in just second w/ half of the Freedom body and the head still intact Even Athrun still unexplainable survive the Anti-ship sword almost hit near of the cockpit and fall into the sea and explode.

That my friend is called horrible writing.

[Zeta Gundam]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

Ha ha yeah you right its unexplainable how Kira survive in a nuclear blast in just second w/ half of the Freedom body and the head still intact Even Athrun still unexplainable survive the Anti-ship sword almost hit near of the cockpit and fall into the sea and explode.

They say he shut the Nuclear part of the Engine off.

That said, it's a reactor, not a bomb.

He still should have died even after those factors, but whatever.

It's Gundam Seed Destiny.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

Ha ha yeah you right its unexplainable how Kira survive in a nuclear blast in just second w/ half of the Freedom body and the head still intact Even Athrun still unexplainable survive the Anti-ship sword almost hit near of the cockpit and fall into the sea and explode.

The nuclear reactor was turned off apparently. So it is not a nuclear explosion, more of a "normal" explosion. Given the fact that Kira was in a probably highly-protected cockpit, it is not implausible that he survived. Plus, the fact that he is a Coordinator did not hurt.

[PzIVf3]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

The nuclear reactor was turned off apparently. So it is not a nuclear explosion, more of a "normal" explosion. Given the fact that Kira was in a probably highly-protected cockpit, it is not implausible that he survived. Plus, the fact that he is a Coordinator did not hurt.

A normal explosion can't generate greater explosive w/ a big wave.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

A normal explosion can't generate greater explosive w/ a big wave.

Maybe, but the fact is, Kira turned off the nuclear reactor, I don't know how the mighty explosion took place or why it happened in the first place, but the main point, is that the explosion is not NUCLEAR. Maybe it was the Impulse's body parts or something, or part of the plasma cannon in the Freedom. Whatever it was, it was not nuclear.

Or even if it was, so what? Kira's cockpit did not explode and that is all that matters., I may seem naive but the cockpit of a mobile suit that relies on nuclear power should be able to withstand the radiation of the nuclear in the first place.

Additionally, he could've just ejected.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

A normal explosion can't generate greater explosive w/ a big wave.

That was mostly the Tannhauser blast hitting the water. Freedom was no closer to that than Impulse was, so either both should have been destroyed by it, or neither should have been.