Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

I know I might sound crazy for saying this... but I'd actually prefer if there was no OP for Umineko in the first place.

I mean... a minute and 30 seconds isn't that much, but it could still go to something much more important in the story. But that's just me, I guess it's unheard of for an anime not to have an OP?

An anime without an OP sequence is VERY rare. I maybe heard of one or two cases, but OP sequences aren't just for show - it's also for opening credits (they normally list major producers, director, etc in the OP and everything else like the VA's, art directors, etc in the ED)

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by Marion

An anime without an OP sequence is VERY rare. I maybe heard of one or two cases, but OP sequences aren't just for show - it's also for opening credits (they normally list major producers, director, etc in the OP and everything else like the VA's, art directors, etc in the ED)

Not to mention the money that flows in through sales of the OP-Single, the money that flows between the teams of the anime studios and the producers of the individual acts performing the openings.
Not to a small degree it's also about producing yourself through making openings, while many of them like doing the openings for certain shows, it's also about presenting your product to a field of people who are willing to buy.

[Archon_Wing]

7/10- amusing though I really have not much to say about it. Though the crazy Maria faces were used well here. And what's with Shannon's boobs deciding to move more this episode? The censorship shouldn't really be held against it; not like they can help that. But I'm sure the dvds will have all the sick stuff.

Rosa, you really need to know what to say to your child sometimes... Also, I took a look at next episode's preview. I can't help but laugh at Gaap's outfit. and apparently...

Spoiler:

George knows kung fu?

edit: love the BGMs

[Skullchukka]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

7/10- amusing though I really have not much to say about it. Though the crazy Maria faces were used well here. And what's with Shannon's boobs deciding to move more this episode? The censorship shouldn't really be held against it; not like they can help that. But I'm sure the dvds will have all the sick stuff.

Rosa, you really need to know what to say to your child sometimes... Also, I took a look at next episode's preview. I can't help but laugh at Gaap's outfit. and apparently...

Spoiler:

George knows kung fu?

edit: love the BGMs

Well,

Spoiler for ep23 preview, and little unimpressive-non spoileric information from preview, compared to VN.:

in the VN, it is stated that Eva has done lots of martial arts, and she is exceptionally good with her legs. Rudolf even jokes about this saying; 'they say the weapon of a woman is in her lower body, I guess they are right!' or something like that.

Spoiler for How george learned that is;:

later revealed that he also has learned some fighting skills from his mother. But IMO in the anime it is just gonna feel weird, since they didn't give any fighter background of Eva in the anime.

[~Ayane~]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

^oooooo that sounds awesome :O! So soon. Can't wait!

it actually comes in 10 days from today ;]

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by ~Ayane~

it actually comes in 10 days from today ;]

*gasp*
noooo :'(, well...thanks for giving me the heads up haha...i guess i'll just have to wait a taaad bit longer.

[AudriSampson]

Wow that was an awsome episode. It was great for Maria to finally get to beat on Mommy for a change then getting to see the Sniveling fighting children get skipped on inheritence just made it a sweet episode.

[Thunder Book]

Okay, I finally viewed the episode. Miragecoordinator sounded epic, and Gaap sounded sexy as hell*.

*Please don't kill me for that pun.

[Racheya-sama]

I definitely enjoyed this episode, it was good to get back on track with the story after hearing about Ange for two episodes. I love Ange, but I really want to get into this arc now I'm also getting tired of having to mentally run through which Ange is which

Spoiler for episode 22:

To be honest my first reaction when seeing Gaap and Siesta 00 was: WTF? Just what we need... MORE characters! I had seen a tiny few pictures of Gaap already but I didn't know she was coming in this arc, I thought it would be a Ep 5 thing. I like Siesta 00, she just seemed to... fit.

I definitely got a Rena vibe from Maria this episode. When she was shouting at Rosa calling her a liar. The torture wasn't really as... torturous as I thought it should look. The twisting of arms just looked more weird than painful... though maybe that's just me. Maria is a psychotic nut-case, but I love her for it

I definitely have to agree with Jessica's scenes seeming to be better animated, there's something about them that seems to just look better. I'm hoping to see more from her and George since we seem to have been distracted from them recently.

Also: first post here ftw.

[AmyElizzabeth]

Maybe Jessica's scenes were better animated because she barely gets any screen time?

[Ljusalfheim]

I liked this episode more than the three last episodes (a little bit boring ones...).
Rosa is so mean with Maria D:!!!

And I liked the first twilight :O

[k//eternal]

It's worth noting that Rosa yelling this stuff at Maria happens only in Maria's dream. She's actually already dead at this point, obviously.

She's certainly done some horrible things, this just isn't actually one of them.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

It's worth noting that Rosa yelling this stuff at Maria happens only in Maria's dream. She's actually already dead at this point, obviously.

She's certainly done some horrible things, this just isn't actually one of them.

Well it depends how you want to interpret it. Did Beatrice really bring Maria to the magic world and let her kill Rosa repeatedly, or was it a dream?

I think it's the latter more, because

1) Rosa was in the clothes that she wore when she tore Sakutaro apart, not her Rokkenjima clothes. If Beato really revived her to let Maria kill her repeatedly then Rosa would probably be wearing her Rokkenjima attire.

2) The stuff that Rosa said - I highly doubt Rosa has complete hate for Maria. Although Maria was viewed in her eyes as an obstacle to getting a man, it's not like she had complete hate for her daughter, it was just her anger releasing onto Maria. The way the scene looks it pretty much just makes Rosa look like a disgusting being with no remorse, when we have evidence that shows otherwise in the series.

[k//eternal]

What I meant was (although you could make the "Beato can revive people to kill them again" argument) that even in the magic world, Rosa is dead, because she'd just gotten shot by Siesta 00.

It's anyone's guess as to what "really" happened in the dining hall, but as far as the magic explanation goes, Rosa was certainly already dead at this point.

[Tyabann]

I always thought that was Meta-Rosa, actually. It's not like we haven't seen her before, given Ep2.

[k//eternal]

If there was really a "Meta-Rosa" she would have maintained her character development from EP2. Her appearance in Purgatorio for the EP2 tea was probably more like how Eva-Beato entered Purgatorio in EP3. (Also note how most characters' Purgatorio appearance in EP1 was very temporary and apparently board-specific.)

Similarly, there was too much direct board impact from that scene (Maria's mood afterward and her allusion to the scene) for it to have been "meta", which is more obvious in the VN.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

If there was really a "Meta-Rosa" she would have maintained her character development from EP2. Her appearance in Purgatorio for the EP2 tea was probably more like how Eva-Beato entered Purgatorio in EP3. (Also note how most characters' Purgatorio appearance in EP1 was very temporary and apparently board-specific.)

That's what I meant, sorry. Rosa from the current gameboard transported to the meta-world for her 'sentence'.

Originally Posted by k//eternal

Similarly, there was too much direct board impact from that scene (Maria's mood afterward and her allusion to the scene) for it to have been "meta", which is more obvious in the VN.

Yeah, that's true. Nevermind, then.

[Dlanor .A. Nox]

I honestly believe it was a dream, Maria's delusions and all that stuff. She's starting to get on my nerves at this point...she's willing to kill her mother over a stuffed doll....Rosa may have done worse things than ripping apart Sakutaro but to kill and go apeshit over a doll is something that makes me believe Maria has some issues real issues. People cheering over that kind of thing frankly disturbs me. Rosa in the dream was obviously a delusion of Maria the black witch. It's stupid how Maria tries to justify killing her mother over and over again, by saying she is possessed. If the rules of magic were real and absolute Rosa as the black witch should have been able to do something other than take Maria's death blows like a champ. Maria had nothing more than a dream a psychotic one at that.

[k//eternal]

It's definitely pretty funny how the "black witch" doesn't seem to have any magic to speak of, even in the magic world.

Spoiler for thoughts on the dream:

I think the dream (and Maria apparently becoming a "true witch" according to Beato in it) is symbolic of Maria choosing the belief that Rosa had been abandoning her over her prior belief (as written in the diary) that Rosa was working hard for both of them. Since Rosa hadn't done anything worse in EP4 up to that point than had occurred for the previous EPs (sure, you see more, but it was pre-game), you'd expect that the dream is a constant.

It's worth noting that (even if the anime makes some weird facial expression choices) Maria isn't nearly as creepy until the second day, and the dream probably also ties into her seriously unnatural perspective when people are dying all around her.

If anything, Maria is the one who's getting possessed by the "black witch" at this point.

By the way, who thought of NICE BOAT's TV version (with the black blood) here?

[Jan-Poo]

Imho she didn't really kill her for real, simply Maria is fantasizing like many people do. When you hate someone you imagine scenes where that person suffers or dies, of course that doesn't mean you would do such things for real, but that somehow appeases the feeling of vengeance, such fantasies can actually be a good way to control the anger, by satisfying the evil thoughts in a non harmful way.

Well the depth of Maria's thoughts went kinda overboard, but she is indeed "broken" as she said. Her fantasies have reached the insanity level. Sakutaro is a metaphor of Maria's pure heart or perhaps a metaphor of her sanity. By the time Rosa ripped the stuffed lion apart, Maria literally lost it.