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Old 2004-05-20, 13:30   Link #41
Bracken33
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Quote:
Hmmm... in our country partial nudity is considered soft porn...
That is different where I live (germany). We have nudity in normal TV and not only late at night. Butts, breasts...
Only detailed shots of some other areas would be considered as pornography I think.



Quote:
Without fanservice, anime is just like any other animation, you know what I'm saying, bra?
I like shows with fanservice as much as shows without.
I don´t know what it is, why I like anime.
Perhaps it´s all these weird stories the japanese come up with. Also they for sure do not care much for political correctness. PC is evil.
I´m off topic ...
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Old 2004-05-20, 19:02   Link #42
Seraph
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I'd have to ecchi and hentai are more then two different words, there two different genres. Ecchi, fanservice, is just that a little fanservice, naked poeple here and there, no big deal. Hentia is sex, or sex-like actions, it is not inuendoes of sex. So:
fanservice is not soft porn, soft porn would be sex with out seeing more then butts and breast.
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Old 2004-05-20, 19:42   Link #43
Yogo_Pogo
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I reaaly HATe fanservice in anime! It's anoying really! Why do they always have to have that in anime? I like watching Yumeria, but the fanservice often make me want to stop watching it.

But it's true, watch an R&B or a Hip Hop video clip and you'll see naked woman. In a commercial of beer they show suggestive dancing woman, even one with a bottle of beer between her leg (see what i mean?). Even at school girl are dresseed like slut ... escuse me!... dressed in a "weird" way. Little girls have Beyonce and Britney Spears has models and they want to be exactly like them.

The fact that they are using fanservice is probably because some like it, but if they stop making fanservice, the anime industry will certainly not die. There are anime that have a good plot but a lot of fanservice. Sometimes for a joke it's correct, but not every five minute or like in Crosplayers, for no really good reason. The fanservice i hate the most is the one who seems to show little girls beeing sexy. I'm a girl, and it's not because of that that my opinion should be taking differently. What do they want? Make people reproduce? Make girl become lesbian? Make girl think that they only exist for being sexual? Making guys think that they can't live without sex? They make me asking myself if japanese male got sexual problems or are obsessed with sex.

And we have to consider the cultural problem too... I don't think so. Limits exist even if a culture tolerate people naked, they don't necasserely tolerate seing people always doing sexual orientated things. There is a difference between showing a person taking a bath like every one do then showing this same person taking his bath and doing thigs that can be interpretted like porn. I don't think that seeing character going in a osen is a necessary thing in anime. I think i'll stop here because this subjet just keep making me MAD
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Old 2004-05-20, 22:05   Link #44
Muir Woods
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Yogo_Popo: Fanservice is there for a simple reason: To appeal to the male gender. As much as you like to admit it or not, some guys (although not all) are attracted to "fanservice". This exploit of male nature is used by commercials/shows/anime/ads...etc...everywhere in order to gain attention or gain a larger audience. Which is why you see "sexy" girls in skimpy bikinis selling cars, or you see a school girl wearing extremely short skirts running up a flight of stairs in the wind. I don't expect you to understand it, but just know it. I got a strange feeling of déja vu here...

Anyways, a little off topic here. There's a question that I've been wondering. I mean, in all the animes I've seen, the school girl uniforms all have extremely short skirts. Short as in, barely covering the essentials. You know what I'm talking about. Do school girls in Japan dress like that? Or are the school uniforms in Japan that provocative? Can someone from Japan clear this up for me?

Last edited by Muir Woods; 2004-05-20 at 22:08. Reason: Minor grammar mistakes...
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Old 2004-05-20, 22:56   Link #45
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muir Woods
Anyways, a little off topic here. There's a question that I've been wondering. I mean, in all the animes I've seen, the school girl uniforms all have extremely short skirts. Short as in, barely covering the essentials. You know what I'm talking about. Do school girls in Japan dress like that? Or are the school uniforms in Japan that provocative? Can someone from Japan clear this up for me?
Schools set their own standards for dress policy. While some strict conservative schools prohibit girls in wearing skirts above the knee-line, it is generally accepted that most skirts are in the range of 5-10 cm above the knee-line. When I was in middle school, the girls wore skirts that were 5 cm below the knee-line. In high-school, the girls wore skirts that were 5 cm above the knee-line.

However I've seen some as high as 15-20cm above the knee-line, but those are pretty rare, and I am almost certain those are out-of-bounds with their school dress policies. But then again, what they do outside of campus after school is their own decision...and responsibility.

Japan has a lot of stairs. The train stations rarely has any elevators (makes you wonder why the term "disabled access" gives you strange looks here), so wearing too short of a skirt will make some lecher peep up in the staircase. You would think "hey I can get to peep girl's underwear!" Ah- but here in lies the misconception that many oil-battered oyajis and misguided gaijins seem to get...girls usually wear spats underneath so you don't get to see "panchila" as you do in anime. Its actually pretty darn amusing to see their faces turn from excitement to disappointment when they realize this. Welcome to reality.
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Old 2004-05-21, 01:55   Link #46
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I think fanservice in anime gives wrong image about Japanese people, just like the violence in American movies gives wrong image about American people.
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Old 2004-05-21, 03:33   Link #47
JubeiYamazaki
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Speaking from an american viewpoint, I'd say too much exccessive "fanservice" could be considered almost pornographic.

As kj1980 pointed out, we're two different cultures, what we may see as pornographic they may look as something normal, as our cartoon violence may seem over the top to them.

But everything has a limit before it becomes too much of a small thing.

"What is soft porn?" I'm sure the FCCA or whoever regulates that sort of thing has standards that regulate what goes into what, while I personally consider such things as Playboy soft porn (explicit pictures of nude women, without any sexual action) while the "fake" porn on HBO and Skinnamax as real porn. Why? Intention.

In all seriousiness, you got a guy and girl whose only intent is to basically have sex and make you exicited about it. They're doing EVERYTHING BUT actually showin' the motion of the ocean, yet people wanna call it "soft porn" same level as per say, Playboy? Oh come on.

The reason why I'm using Playboy as an example is because, in our culture the only real form of pornography that has even a chance of being acceptable form of nudity is Playboy, its always been known as the "gentelmans" magazine. And it has a clear and solid line seperating itself from porn industry (in fact if any Playmate becomes a pornstar they are automically kicked out of the Playboy company.) Playboy offers the more traditional and classic view of the woman's body. Weither you agree or not, its up to the person, but its intent is obivious, anyone who actually reads Playboy would know that, the magazine itself offers a lot more then "teh big b00biez~!!" then simple pure sexual self gradifcation, that's what Hustler is for.


What about the intentions?


Art is subjective. And art has changed over the last thousand years, in how art/expression is implemented in today's society. Like I said its all about intention. Was Michelangelo Buonarroti Sistine chapel considered art or porngraphy by the majority? He was told by Pope Julius II to paint the Sistine's chapel, his intention was to show the beauty of man that God created, and God's connection to man, those were his intentions.

What about his statue of David? "The choice of David was supposed to reflect the power and determination of Republican Florence and was under constant attack from supporters of the usurped Medicis. In the 19th century the statue was moved to the Accademia." Back then it was considered pornographic, but now its considered art, why? Because of what he was trying to express through his sculpture.

Depending on the show, there's different reasons for everything. For example Ranma 1/2 every act of.. I guess perversion? Was always followed up by an act of comedy, making it funny. Gotta love Happosai. So it would lead me to believe that anytype of perverison was to be taken lightly and as a joke, which is why I don't consider that form of "fanservice" as pornographic, since its intent was to make you laugh.

Look at Ikkitousen, every other frame was a freakin' shot a perverison, for what reason? None. Other then to throw in the panties shots and nudity and get the men watching, plain and simple. That's why I think, people using the whole "its form of self expression so therefore its okay" arguement is pretty fucking whack. Since their intent is to make you wanna whack off/make money off of the added selling power of sex + action.

You can only have so many panty shots, or boob shots, or sexual innuendo before you hit a limit.

So basically, if you watch any anime that gets you "in the mood" its probably close enough to porngraphy.
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Old 2004-05-21, 04:13   Link #48
Kensuke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bracken33
Quote:
Hmmm... in our country partial nudity is considered soft porn...
That is different where I live (germany). We have nudity in normal TV and not only late at night. Butts, breasts...
Only detailed shots of some other areas would be considered as pornography I think.
That is the situation in my country (Finland) too... and I share your opinion.
I enjoy fanservice, as long as it leaves "some details" out.
Some fanservice series in animesuki that I like are Yumeria, Hanaukyo Maid Tai (first series) and KonoMini.
Daphne in the Brilliant Blue crossed the fine line that goes beyond fanservice, and is basically porn... IMO. I dropped the series after a couple of episodes, so I don't know how the series goes after that.
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Old 2004-05-21, 08:24   Link #49
Yuun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
Yuun, it's quite scary actually... you and I are in almost exactly the same boat. But, a little while ago, I came to the realization that what I was mostly trying to do was rationalize behaviour that I knew was questionable at best according to my stated moral standards.

Like you, the thought of watching porn with "real life" actors has never been appealing to me at all... I always thought of it as a disgrace and, above all I guess, just plain disgusting. But, while I haven't watched much "hentai" anime, I was able to rationalize it more with the same argument you were using: it's not real, it's just art; no one is getting hurt. And while it is a comfort to my ethical side, it doesn't remove the moral problem. Depending on your personality, art (like anime) can be just as erotic as seeing the real thing. As you say, it's a way to deal with sexual frustration, but that doesn't remove the moral dillemma.
Well you have that point over there... hehehe...guess i'm speechless, but really for my opinian as long as we do watch this kind of this stuff it won't does us any good as it might condem our morale.

But as they say "Man desire is boundless" Thus, the best way is to control since is merely imposible to leave it. I myself hasn't touch anything concerning ecchi for quite sometime now untill i watch Konomini...that has some ecchi scene in it. Aiyo, i'm ashamed to myself...sigh... but main i just being artistic and love arts and hopefully always be, better than into something more bizzare like real porn?

To yogo pogo,
Believe me...in this such challenging enviroment where everyone company is an enemy in the Industry, if you don't do something special or eye catching you won't make any business. I've study MicroEconomics and found out that 67.5% of this world comercial likes to add in abnormal stuff likes Girls dancing and bla bla bla... sometimes till naked woman walking down the streets but that's the fact.

I myself likes this stuff but only if is and art and drawn not real ones. Sometimes looking at the Carlsberg comercial where girls dancing while pouring liquar all over the place really disgust me...damn! I hate naked woman this days...where's their faces?? Do they know wat is the meaning of 'Kisses' , 'Being Naked' , 'Sex' , 'virgin' , 'Culture?' So far at least Japanese still able to maintain their xxx stuffs...

i partly agree with you although i'm a guy myself Actually i'm looking for a real girl to be a my girl friend but is just too hard to find one this days... hopefully my girl friend will be like you yogo pogo ^^

My personal opinian is kinda abit too naive actually...
1st - I believe in 1st love will last
2nd - I hope the one i love would love me for who i am.
3rd - I hope i'm my gf 1st in everything such as "Kisses" and ...Ahem... you get the point.
4th - I love only GIRL!!! and is just so hard to find real girl in the girls surrounding me... sometimes i think my mom is better than them...heh

Oh btw, yogo pogo? Want to my online GF?? Hehehe... (I'm joking) how bout being friends?
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Old 2004-05-21, 08:41   Link #50
Yuun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muir Woods
Anyways, a little off topic here. There's a question that I've been wondering. I mean, in all the animes I've seen, the school girl uniforms all have extremely short skirts. Short as in, barely covering the essentials. You know what I'm talking about. Do school girls in Japan dress like that? Or are the school uniforms in Japan that provocative? Can someone from Japan clear this up for me?
ok...i'm not a japanese but i DO study their culture as i'm interested in their culture too. Nice question you have there, but i think kj1980 hav answer you slightly about it so not much i need to talk about. Here at my places girls also likes to wear short skirts...but talking about uniforms there's a restriction to it as well, the reason the anime has so much of this "Mini Skirts" is basically...i think is to attract Gents.

But kj1980...i knew Japan do have alot of hidden secret about this so call Hentai Industry...hehehe...lets have a private conversations once in a while, but maybe is good if i bring this up... Japan is ratest one of the highest Sex Industry. Also means that the Japanese got such imaginations that they can produce such variety stlye while doing...ahem...that stuff and they got so much deferent industry than just calling for prostitute.

They got Panties shop. Bunny Bar. I really don't like to go on as it really makes me sick...Is not strange though since they can populate so much people within such short time into such a powerful nation, err...i've Study Japan History and i must say i really amaze.

I like Japan Culture alot as they proof that they really can do watever they want and i also slightly interested in People there. They ppl so kind and nice not to mention polite, when they accidently bangs you they'll say sorry unlike my place where they just bang you and runs away a little off topic here

Demo saa...kono wa Oyaji ne really makes me angry and sometimes i feel like kurosu them. My little brother gf is a japanese and i know quite alot from her though.
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Old 2004-05-21, 13:45   Link #51
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuun
ok...i'm not a japanese but i DO study their culture as i'm interested in their culture too. Nice question you have there, but i think kj1980 hav answer you slightly about it so not much i need to talk about. Here at my places girls also likes to wear short skirts...but talking about uniforms there's a restriction to it as well, the reason the anime has so much of this "Mini Skirts" is basically...i think is to attract Gents.

But kj1980...i knew Japan do have alot of hidden secret about this so call Hentai Industry...hehehe...lets have a private conversations once in a while, but maybe is good if i bring this up... Japan is ratest one of the highest Sex Industry. Also means that the Japanese got such imaginations that they can produce such variety stlye while doing...ahem...that stuff and they got so much deferent industry than just calling for prostitute.

They got Panties shop. Bunny Bar. I really don't like to go on as it really makes me sick...Is not strange though since they can populate so much people within such short time into such a powerful nation, err...i've Study Japan History and i must say i really amaze.

I like Japan Culture alot as they proof that they really can do watever they want and i also slightly interested in People there. They ppl so kind and nice not to mention polite, when they accidently bangs you they'll say sorry unlike my place where they just bang you and runs away a little off topic here

Demo saa...kono wa Oyaji ne really makes me angry and sometimes i feel like kurosu them. My little brother gf is a japanese and i know quite alot from her though.
In English, I would say "that's just the tip of the iceberg." There is a whole other "dark side" of Japan that neither I want to step in too.

Let's say I go to Shinjuku. I get off at the East Exit, and if I go to my right, I see bunch of electronics shops and department stores. If I go to me left....well, I just stepped into the Kabukicho area - notorious for sex shops, soap-land brothels, dozens of yakuza related crimes, drug dealers...etc. Just looking at one of the dilapidated buildings gives me the creeps as I see ambivalent signs promising "get a great deal on your loan" (which basically means: Just bring in your insurance card and we'll talk) to a restaurant that obviouslty does not belong in the surrounding atmosphere (need I say, it is likely a sexually related restaurant).

And then there are more lighter, and more amusing ideas. There is this one restaurant where female waitresses dressed as a police-woman handcuffs you and escorts you to a table which is inside a prison cell. There is nothing sexual here, in fact a lot of familes come here to experience a good time. It's not everyday you see a waiter (dressed as a prison guard) coming around yelling "here's your grub" through a cell window. Some person in America told me there is this place where everyone dresses up in ancient Roman attire and eat dinner watching jaunts.


But personally, I am rather astonished to see Westerners call these "imaginative." To us, this is rather normal. In a sense then, it makes me wonder - what kind of variety do you have for fun? Many of my co-workers who transferred to the American subsidiary of my company tells me things like "America is really boring," "There is nothing to do here," "There is no where fun to go," "America has no variety." Since I never been there this is hard for me to grasp.
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Old 2004-05-21, 16:37   Link #52
Yogo_Pogo
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Yuun:"Oh btw, yogo pogo? Want to my online GF?? Hehehe... (I'm joking) how bout being friends?"
Yogo_Pogo: "why not! "

Can fanservice can be taken as something that someone can enjoy by procuration? Does seeing fanservice makes males want to have sex? Does it make the numbers of rape increase? Maybe it's the effect on the behavior and that can make us see if fanservice is dangerous.
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Old 2004-05-21, 21:42   Link #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogo_Pogo
Can fanservice can be taken as something that someone can enjoy by procuration? Does seeing fanservice makes males want to have sex? Does it make the numbers of rape increase? Maybe it's the effect on the behavior and that can make us see if fanservice is dangerous.
That's a very troublesome and dangerous line of thinking. It implies a simple cause-and-effect relationship that just really isn't that simple. Trying to make a correlation between fanservice and rape is just an incredibly destructive and ultimately futile endeavour. If you take your statements to their logical conclusions, we should remove anything and everything that may lead to thoughts of sex, because thoughts of sex may increase the number of crimes against women. That line of thinking is not only insane, but incredibly dangerous to a free society.

Remember: the problem is the crime and at issue is the kind of mental instability that leads people to commit these crimes. Keep in mind that a lot of people watch violent movies, but don't turn around and murder people, and I'm sure the like is true with fanservice and crimes against women. Even if you did find a link between fanservice and rape, what does it prove? You could say that fanservice planted the seed that led to the crime, but couldn't you also argue that the type of people who commit crimes against women are probably more likely to watch sexual material? Unless you're criminally insane, crime is a choice, which is why it's important that we not go down this unending road of trying to argue that the media is to blame. In the end, this line of thinking only leads to censorship and restriction of thought, which I am totally against. I don't care how much fanservice or porn or whatever that you've seen; if you commit a crime against a women, it's entirely your fault.

I'm sorry if I seem a bit overly sensitive on this point, but it simply wrong to argue a connection between fanservice and rape. You can make the connection between tobacco and lung cancer, but the connection between thought and a crime goes against the very foundation of human rights and freedoms, plus the very things which make us different from animals: free will and the ability to differentiate between right and wrong.

Once again I'm sorry if I seem like I'm lashing out. I'm not angry at you personally, so please don't take it that way. However, I do find the idea troublesome, and I hope that you now understand why.
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Old 2004-05-22, 02:04   Link #54
Yuun
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TO: Yogo Pogo,
Wow...thanks!! Not much People want to be my Net friends as they say i'm too honest and open minded hehehe...

TO:relentlessflame,
You got a good point there and i would like to mention a little stuff about your thinking.

Basically Both of you are Right. Bad Imaginations and self control can lead to this kind of Actions such as Rape and etc. ~Brain~ one of the most powerful weapon on earth should be always kept healthy and that is not suppose to be poison by this bad thought and imaginations.

Actually, sometimes i also have this kind of Imaginations and that lead to wet dream once in a while...hehehe... but i have no worry as i know that i'll be protected by Almighty Loard and that i'll never did this kind of forbbiden stuffs...Amen~

Is perfectly ok to Imagine as long as Real Actions is not taken. In other words we must be Self Conscius and have self control over watever we do. I disgust whenever i read newspaper where Rape Inccident happens...sigh...

Hahahahaha..... i just thought of something funny.... uhm... can i do a little promotion here?? Actually if we have a strong religion and taht we believe in it we'll never be able to does this kind of things so....GO ENTER A RELIGION NOW~~
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Old 2004-05-22, 02:17   Link #55
Yuun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogo_Pogo
Can fanservice can be taken as something that someone can enjoy by procuration? Does seeing fanservice makes males want to have sex? Does it make the numbers of rape increase? Maybe it's the effect on the behavior and that can make us see if fanservice is dangerous.
Well, regarding this...mayb it does effect a little towards certain people. DId i mention that there's a Nut case kill his own mother after watching EVA?? With a stupid reason saying that "This Human Society is poison and that it shall be destroy and....." thus i think it might effected certain people with low sefl control.

Yet again...a fan service won't really go that far but for Hentai scene then it's other words la... as it's more extreme but a little fan service won't really get a male aroused at least it doesn't work for me ^^ just think of it as a beautiful art of humanity than it'll be okay. Don't think it otherwise....then it'll go the other way around....
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Old 2004-05-22, 04:45   Link #56
Zardak
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Well I don't really give much thought to the fanservice when I watch an anime (Well sometimes when it's really extreme but that's quite rare). But then I'm from Sweden where they have naturists and people painting themselfs viagra-blue while eating all sorts of unhealthy things in reality shows for the whole family
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Old 2004-05-22, 15:41   Link #57
StoneColdCrazy
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And where the word 'bra' means 'good'. A coincidence?

SCC
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Old 2004-05-22, 16:12   Link #58
Zardak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneColdCrazy
And where the word 'bra' means 'good'. A coincidence?

SCC
lol, most defenently some truth in that
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Old 2004-05-26, 19:45   Link #59
Yogo_Pogo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
That's a very troublesome and dangerous line of thinking.
I'm not offended and was really happy to ear (read) your opinion about this post

I was just asking questions, because adult say that violence on tv make children violent and stuff like that. I don't really think myself that we will all go raping girls after watching fanservice, but i was just thinking of what could be the consequences of too much fanservice in anime. The same question could be asked about the unecessary nudity and sensuality of pop stars.

The big questions are:

Why we have all this fanservice? (What are the intentions of those who make them in the anime that are not related to money$)
What are the consequences of this fanservice on the mentality, the way that people think and act?

We, has humans, are supposed to control ourselves but... we can be easilly influenced by what surround us, what we ear, what we see or even eat. Just looking at the way politicans control the mentality of the population make me think that the control taht we think we have on our behavior is not that strong.
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Old 2004-05-28, 12:33   Link #60
Yuun
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Uhm...yogo pogo about the reason Fan service insert into an anime is kinda ovious isn't it?

To make more money of course!!!

U see....guys watch anime more than girls do....i think...thus putting some fan service into an anime will attract certain ppl to watch it....besides i dun think any guys will even complaint about it....

HEE~
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