2009-01-10, 08:34 | Link #1201 | |
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As for it being impossible to "create a relationship", because Ranka is shy... you honestly think that in 25 episodes the writers couldnīt have done better? How do romance animes work, then? Because shy characters are not exactly a newfangled type of thing.
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2009-01-10, 09:16 | Link #1202 | |
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I guess we are talking at cross-purposes. What I wanted to tell is that Ranka chooses Alto to be her "Mittelpunkt meiner Liebe". You are right that it is terrible for the risk to be unheared is being given and what happened to Ranka at the end. But even though this is also love. It may be foolish but hey I gave up at girls who were thinking like that. Maybe we should ask a girl more about this. From mens point of view this is somehow not reasonable because we don' t have the finetuning. I said it's more difficult and it takes longer not that it is impossible. I know this from my personal experience because my girlfriend has a shy and reserved characteristics. It took me about five years to get her known and where we exchanged letters. Now she has these eyes where you can see that she expects me to do a proposal...
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2009-01-10, 09:21 | Link #1203 | |
A blast from the past
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Now, that little aside gone, I still can't see what any of it has to do with Ranka and her poor choices. She wasn't in a position to harm herself and she wasn't deciding what the fleet should do - she was in a position to help, and finally, she decided to bail. It did turn out alright in the end, but I'm not a "the end justifies the means" kind of person. She didn't grow up. She was still the same when the series ended. That's bad enough for me.
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2009-01-10, 09:40 | Link #1204 |
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Sorry BetoJR for not seeing your thoughts correctly :P
Just a small thing because you are putting a lot into Louis now. He was not more than a puppet prince in his young age. The true power behind everyting was his prime minister, Cardinal Mazarin. The famous words "L'etat c'est moi" was far later when he was adult. I do not say that his work was not right but he was not alone in his responsibilities of rulership. And I did read wiki before I replied :P Ok, we are going too much off topic with louis now. Going back to Ranka. I already said she was mentally not ready when the responsibility was given to her. She gained this first at the end where she continued to sing where Sheryl got knocked out by that wave. This is the point where she actually was ready to take over the role of the protector together with Sheryl and the Macross fleet defenders. The point I see while I am in discussion with you all is to clearify responsibilities. By the way. Did you rewatch? :P edit: I changed "too young" as this is a bit wide spreaded term.
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2009-01-10, 10:04 | Link #1205 |
Lovestruck Fool
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I'm not sure if I'd consider Ranka to be "shy". She sings in front of thousands of people for a living, after all. Even with Alto, Ranka didn't really have any trouble in talking with him (whether it be in person or by texting).
I'd say that the problem in their relationship had more to do with the fact that while Ranka put a lot of effort into trying to make Alto understand her, she didn't really try to understand Alto and his goals. That's why episode twenty came as a rude awakening for her. I wouldn't say that Ranka's actions in the last few episodes are fuelled by love (or rather, her reaction to the events of episode twenty). She's come to the point where she realizes that it's not worth sacrificing her own personal beliefs just to try to win someone over, and she starts making decisions for herself. In so doing, she moves forward. Granted, the presentation left something to be desired, but I think that's where Ranka's transition to maturity lies. |
2009-01-10, 10:10 | Link #1206 | ||
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2009-01-10, 10:34 | Link #1207 | |
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And there is no better examples to get to write something than from real life. If they had more resources and time to fit everything, maybe she would not have that weaknesses she had shown.
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2009-01-10, 11:05 | Link #1208 | |
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I am sure that there are some shy characters which were developed better in the same timeframe she had. She was, after all, the main character in MF.
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2009-01-10, 11:51 | Link #1209 | |
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Depending on how much money was spent for the other great mecha porn and other more important stuff the character design and further more have lacked. Maybe we'll see an improvement in the Movie as a fight between characters has been promised. Maybe we can rediscuss this when the movie comes out and see if there are any differences. As for the personal growth development. Well we have different interpretation about this. I did not concentrate on your so called Magix HaX because this was something I did not find a key situation of her mental growth to me. It was even earlier when Sheryl opened a fold connection to Ranka so that Alto was able to communicate with her.
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2009-01-10, 12:11 | Link #1210 | |
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And letīs just say that Rankas behaviour during the conversation on that "higher plane" was the subject of intense discussion just a few days ( and pages ) ago. She didnīt come off too well there, neither.
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2009-01-10, 12:28 | Link #1211 | ||
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Sorry. I switched sentences. I replied first to forgetting to quote: Quote:
Agree on that.
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2009-01-11, 21:45 | Link #1212 |
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This is not my native lenguage any gramatical mistakes ignore them as long they make sense.
I first write a whole reason to "why what ranka do was wrong?" but it dissapeared so i will make it short. ranka have the ultimate happiness at the moment (chapter 19) the only things that werent going well was a uncertainity about her doing as a savior and the same thing but in the love department, but "As long as Alto is happy so i am" was the current thinking in rankas head, so the first was uninportant, then she saw Sheryl and Alto togheter and we disccover that "As long as Alto is happy so i am" also must have "as long is at my side" so just for that she wants to die (moment in wich i stoped my consideration of ranka in the love triangle, such an inmature brat should not start any romantic relationship until they grow up if Ranka actually win the triangle it would give a even worse message than school days) ignoring that she has EVERYTHING else that a person whish even sheryl surely would change places with ranka anytime but Ranka being the inmature Brat she was wanted even more she also wanted alto (if it was me, and sheryl were my friend i would be asking myself why i havent see any sheryl stuff lately?, but thats just me making ranka into an even worse person seeing evil behind the moeness, ignore this little space) so that lead to her abandoning millions of people, someone consider that they desserve it? http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=1202 about that one me being a girl considers that magnuskn is right. |
2009-01-12, 01:50 | Link #1213 | |
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2009-01-14, 23:01 | Link #1215 |
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It always amaze me how unrealistic people can be when it's about defending Sheryl, and bashing Ranka. Honestly, Sheryl started out as an amazing character; but the script didn't really favored her a lot. I could say a lot of things about Sheryl's "undevelopment" over the series, but not now. Back to Ranka.
Ranka received a power and a responsability with it. Now, who says that just by having it, she's prepared for that? Ranka started just wanting to sing for one sole person, and now, suddenly millions of lives depended on her. That's something that would scare most people; I'd be scared! I don't see why Ranka should feel some "responsability" with the people of Frontier. Because it's "her people"? Like Sheryl, she isn't originally from Frontier. Why should she sing then, to people that's using her as a war weapon? To overcome her feelings and acting like a pro, is something that needs a long time to achieve. Ranka's just starting; being a singer doesn't make her a pro. And anyway, who would sing during a funeral, after seeing a friend dying? Yeah, maybe Sheryl would do it!!! *-* Bad news; we'll never know if she would do it or not. By the way, is it really so selfish to sing just for one person, and later not wanting to sing anymore because you lost your reason to sing? I've seen many times that plot (Full Moon wo Sagashite comes to my mind) and it doesn't annoy me at all. In fact, the idea of finding a new reason to sing is a great development and a way to show that you've grown up. Now, about Sheryl being the one that took the responsability of singing...yeah, she did; but was it for the people? It looked to me that Sheryl was desperate for a chance of proving that she could be as good or better than Ranka. No doubt that she would accept to sing, then. I don't like either the typical "Ranka's a brat/childish, and Sheryl's an adult." Yeah, Ranka's still a child. And you know what? I don't see why she shouldn't act like one. She's just 16 years old, for God's sake...a shy and overprotected 16 years old girl. So, don't expect her being an adult suddenly in a few episodes. Sheryl, on the other side, has lived her entire life on her own; it becomes pretty obvious that Sheryl has had to develop some strenghts that Ranka hasn't gained yet. And it's not that Sheryl doesn't act childish either, most times. One more thing: in my opinion, a teenager isn't very different from a child. Is a 16 years old girl, a child? For me, it is. It's sort of funny...Ranka said and did a lot of things that make her being repudied: wanting to have Alto by her side, not wanting to sing, etc. But the truth is, that in episodes 23-25, Sheryl did and said most of the things that made Ranka hateable! "Don't say anything more, or else, I won't be able to sing"; Sheryl said something like that to Alto on episode 24. So, even the allmighty Sheryl can't sing when she has a broken heart. I suppose I'll never understand why most people acts towards Ranka just as the people of Frontier. Suuuuuure, Ranka's the traitor that abandoned them!!! Who cares about her wanting a different way to end the war, or realizing that she's being used; she must sing for them, and fight! Ok...enough for now. I love Sheryl, but her fandom really sickens me. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't blame Ranka for everything; but I understand that nothing I could say would change that. This is my releasing way ^^' I've read too much Ranka-bashing around the internet, and I couldn't stay in silence anymore xD |
2009-01-15, 00:01 | Link #1216 | |||||||||||
Catholic = Cat addiction?
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Location: MURICA!!
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The problem is that she knew her role perfectly. She was Frontier's idol, she knew her power would prevail in battles, and that her songs were something to tame the Vajra. She OKed the first time, stating to her brother that she should be making her own decisions and went to battle along with SmS. Then she volunteered the second time, and definitely gave everyone around her a false impression that she was indeed doing what she was doing for Frontier, but in reality, that simply was not so. Quote:
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At the end, she did neither. Quote:
Anyway, for Sheryl, she believed that if her role as a singer would help the people of Frontier, even if just a little, she would be willing to do it. She wanted to prove her existence through singing, that had always been her goal, and its consistent with her character. She intended to follow that dream, with or without Ranka meddling in between. Quote:
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Whether Alto confessed or not to her at that point, would have been a distraction. Quote:
Anyway, if you find it amazing how unrealistic people can be when its about supporting (not defending, she is always on the offense) Sheryl, then I find it equally ridiculous how unbelievably irrational people can be when its about defending Ranka. - Tak
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2009-01-15, 02:52 | Link #1218 | ||||||
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Sorry, but your argument was really weaksauce just now. Quote:
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Last edited by magnuskn; 2009-01-15 at 03:27. |
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2009-01-15, 03:55 | Link #1219 | |||||||
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Location: Where Rei Ayanami is...or prolly dreaming.
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Its good that you recognize such great responsibility put upon her. How can I put it, Ranka had a great gift - able to communicate, stun, and control the vajra. She also had a burden, because of such gift. Most of the Ranka fanboys say she didn't expect it; She's a child; She's being manipulated; It isn't voluntary, its too heavy; yada yada. I say, that is precisely the point. Its a test of character. At that point in time, Ranka's character was put into a situation - to rise above it or shirk upon such great responsibility. I think it was in one of those spidey movies that stated that sometimes, being a hero (and having such great responsibilty) means giving up your hopes and dreams. (I can't believe I tried to avoid it for 2 years, I thought and still think its cheesy, but props to the writer) Those burdens were part and parcel of her burden which, theoretically, would make Ranka shine even more. Quote:
Sheryl did it, Basara did it, nothing wrong with it. However, if you check the older posts, the idea was that her failure to sing meant lost lives. This parallels with Basara's actions to a degree (warning: I am a Basara fanboy). Its not a good thing to leave people to die because you feel bad. I can agree that what he did was reckless, to a degree (warning: I am a Basara fanboy). Quote:
To better focus the issue, what circumstances led you to believe Sheryl was trying to prove herself as good or better than Ranka? And in what aspect? 1. As singers 2. As Alto's lover 3. As a saviour/weapon against the vajra Quote:
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As you stated she knew her weakness (a broken heart), and she acted on such weakness in order to prevent any dangers for the operation. The scene merely proves Sheryl's foresight and prudence in handling her emotions by controlling the situation. That's a good thing no? Quote:
Wanting to end the war differently. That is exactly one of my train of thought in justifying Ranka. Perhaps you can better answer this question than me, was Ranka aware that her decision and action to deliver ai-kun and to visit her origin (because of some memories) will bring a resolution to the conflict? Stated differently, did she purposely decide to leave because she had a reasonable belief that she can save the Frontier and the Vajra? Or was she acting on a reckless impulse to deliver her pet and to find out about her origins add to the fact of her hurt feelings - even though it probably would not help, and in fact, got captured - made everything harder for the Frontier, saved by Frontier co., and in return saved Frontier co. and the Vajra by inevitably singing in the end with Sheryl? Quote:
Either way it ended well, vajra and humans alive. Still, I do not believe the end justifies the means. |
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