(L) Kimi ni Todoke (Reaching You) [Anime]

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

Yeah, I remember that one. I though it kinda gave a romantic vibe to Kurumi's flashback.

Then again, It never snows were I live, so what do I know.

I took it as an exaggerated joke.

[Zetsubo]

Differences Between Kurumi and Sawako

Kurunuma Sawako = Not Coward

Kurumizawa Ume = Coward

[orion]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

Yeah, I remember that one. I though it kinda gave a romantic vibe to Kurumi's flashback.

Then again, It never snows were I live, so what do I know.

It snows a lot where I live. So peeping behind a gate in a blizzard is plain stupid, crazy, and not done.

An example of a romantic snowstorm scene is Kanon's snow scenes. Romantic snowstorm is a gentle one imo.

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

I took it as an exaggerated joke.

Unfortunately, Kurumi was being serious. And after all her efforts in middle school, he still didn't date her at all. I laughed at how serious she was in her stalking.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by tsukimoto

*Snip*

These are extreme examples, but... do you or I need to interview the Joker (from Batman) to know that he has psychological issues? Do we need to interview Lex Luthor in order to know that he's a sociopath?

The rules for psychological assessments as it pertains to real life people does not always hold with fictional characters; the reason being that fictional characters are often developed by their writers in ways that allows the viewers to gain deep insights into these characters, negating the need for interviews.

Fans of this anime don't need to interview Kurumi (which is obviously impossible, after all) in order to have defensible opinions on her psychological state.



That being said... if you're more comfortable with the term "speculation", that's fine.

What I wrote is based on my speculations pertaining to Kurumi's character.

Also, while I've been out of high school a long time now, I have sisters and close cousins who just recently graduated; one having graduated just this past June.


Based on what they tell me about their high school life, Kurumi's behavior is normal for a teenage girl with a crush on someone... in some ways. But not in others.


Trying to set up a competitor with a different guy? Perfectly normal.

Making deceitful comments about a competitor to the guy you want? This is more of an ethical issue than a psychological one. It's not terribly uncommon, but it's not something that one would call "socially acceptable", either. A girl who was found out to be doing this would be looked down upon by her peers.

Finding a competitor annoying? Pretty normal.

Pretending to be a competitor's close friend to try to manipulate her away from a desired boyfriend? A bit outside the norm, but not all that strange. It is very frowned upon, though.

Undermining a guy's romantic prospects for years? Strange.

Having a crush on a guy that spans several years, yet not pursuing him in a straightforward manner at all? Very strange.


These last two put Kurumi outside the norm. The last three makes her far from "typical".


Kurumi certainly doesn't strike me as a shy girl, but even if she was a shy girl... holding a crush on a guy for several years with out even trying to so much as to flirt with him seems very odd to me.


Anyway... I don't get why Kurumi's defenders would try to pass her off as normal or typical. Normal/typical is frequently boring in fiction... Part of what makes Kurumi such a good antagonist is that she's not normal and typical.

[DJ Trouble]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

These last two put Kurumi outside the norm. The last three makes her far from "typical".

Are you taking into the fact that she's Japanese?

Also, I find it odd that a few people seem to find any of Kurumi's tactics dirty, bad, or any other synonym. Even more so considering she likes one of, if not the, most popular guy in school. Just had tons of competition, so she got rid of them. She was playing to win, and doing a good job of it. There's only one somewhat contradicting piece of evidence against her, and that's her never actually confessing, but that's probably because

Spoiler:

she knows Kazehaya doesn't like her as anything more than a friend. And considering he rejected every confession he got in middle school, there's not really a reason for her to do so before at least catching his attention a little more.

Anyway, I feel sorry for Kurumi.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by DJ Trouble

Are you taking into the fact that she's Japanese?

Yes.

All of the other girls in this anime are Japanese, and they don't seem to have a problem confessing their feelings to Kazehaya.

Also, I find it odd that a few people seem to find any of Kurumi's tactics dirty, bad, or any other synonym.

There's nothing odd whatsoever about objecting to deliberate deceitfulness that's meant to hurt people. Kurumi told a complete lie about Sawako to Kazehaya; a lie that would obviously upset him and also strain the good friendship between Kazehaya and Sawako; a friendship that Kazehaya obviously values deeply.

Even more so considering she likes one of, if not the, most popular guy in school. Just had tons of competition, so she got rid of them. She was playing to win, and doing a good job of it.

She was effective in hurting others and preventing the competition from gaining ground; she obviously was not effective in gaining ground for herself, though.

There's only one somewhat contradicting piece of evidence against her, and that's her never actually confessing, but that's probably because

Spoiler:

she knows Kazehaya doesn't like her as anything more than a friend. And considering he rejected every confession he got in middle school, there's not really a reason for her to do so before at least catching his attention a little more.

What you wrote in the spoiler space is a pretty strong reason for Kurumi simply giving up on Kazehaya, don't you think? Or, failing that, to at least try to appeal to him directly for a change.

[DJ Trouble]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yes.

All of the other girls in this anime are Japanese, and they don't seem to have a problem confessing their feelings to Kazehaya.

By the other girls, you mean the ones that Kurumi probably encouraged to confess and definitely set up the confession for knowing it would fail? Well, I was just wondering. A person that goes about things in a roundabout way, even for years, seems to be a common occurrence in manga.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

There's nothing odd whatsoever about objecting to deliberate deceitfulness that's meant to hurt people.

That's true. But what's that have to do with this? Kurumi isn't doing this to hurt other people. She wants to eventually date Kazehaya. Even assuming that does apply, this is love. Someone always gets hurt in love (and war). Always. That's why the saying is "All's fair in love and war." You can't avoid hurting people, so there's no reason to try and avoid it, especially at the cost of your own feelings. Which is why I find it odd people are objecting.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Kurumi told a complete lie about Sawako to Kazehaya; a lie that would obviously upset him and also strain the good friendship between Kazehaya and Sawako; a friendship that Kazehaya obviously values deeply.

I remember a lot of half truths, but no whole lies. Kazehaya likes Sawako and Kurumi knows this. Of course she's going to try and ruin their relationship, their relationship that is more than a good friendship. If she didn't, she'd be the one losing in the end. If they were already dating, it might be a different matter, but as it is now, Kurumi needs to act.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

She was effective in hurting others and preventing the competition from gaining ground; she obviously was not effective in gaining ground for herself, though.

At the end of the day it's all progress. To get Kazehaya she'd need to do both anyway. Her problem is that she's only done one. Even if she had made Kazehaya like her first, she'd still have to get rid of the competition. The other girls wouldn't have taken Kazehaya getting a girlfriend lightly.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

What you wrote in the spoiler space is a pretty strong reason for Kurumi simply giving up on Kazehaya, don't you think? Or, failing that, to at least try to appeal to him directly for a change.

She could give up, but where's the fun in that? She obviously likes him enough to not give up, which isn't a crime or even a bad decision. Lots of people eventually grow to like someone they didn't always have feelings for. And yea, I agree she should have tried to be more direct. I think she would have been successful if she had made a move before Sawako came along.

[orion]

If she followed him around since middle school and they still didn't go out, then she should have "dumped" him for greener pastures in middle school. That's the normal female response.

Kurumi's gong for the Hail Mary pass into the endzone with 2 seconds left in the game and no one in the endzone.

[Zwei]

This is so typical for an antagonist to do these stuff in a shoujo anime/manga. Aren't some of you unnecessarily extrapolating things?

I find Kurumi's character much more interesting than Sadako.

[Salva]

I think she's more acceptable cause we really can meet people like her, doing such things in real life. I've never found anyone like Sawako though. And that's the difference. I still prefer Sawako, not denying she may be annoying and naive to extreme point. But I don't try to defend her that much. I see her bad points and mostly agree with them. But I cannot understand what you say about Kurumi. It's normal to act based on your own feelings, to make yourself happy. I understand that. And I don't have anything against Kurumi trying to have Kazehaya. I don't approve of her methods. She's acting like a spoiled child, not trying to face things head on. She's not honest at all. She doesn't have a courage to try to make Kaze look at her. I may understand her feelings, I also was a girl who wasn't brave enough to get the guy I wanted. But still at some point I decided that it's better to lose trying than to lose not knowing whether we had a chance or not. And that's exactly why I cannot stand attitude like this. If she's such a coward then she should give up on him, and find someone else! But definitely not try to hurt him like she's doing it now. Because she want to cause him pain for her own gain. It's not love, I don't acknowledge it as love.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Zwei

This is so typical for an antagonist to do these stuff in a shoujo anime/manga. Aren't some of you unnecessarily extrapolating things?

I find Kurumi's character much more interesting than Sadako.

Prob would if stalking hadn't become such a topic here and Japan. Seiyuu death threats and all that jazz...

SZS's stalker chick (Matoi Tsunetsuki) made it a lot more popular imo.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Zwei

This is so typical for an antagonist to do these stuff in a shoujo anime/manga. Aren't some of you unnecessarily extrapolating things?

I find Kurumi's character much more interesting than Sadako.

Kurumi is definitely a lot more complex and that's what makes her interesting. But she wouldn't be nearly as much fun if she wasn't with Sawako. I do hope they become good friends after all of this.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by orion

It snows a lot where I live. So peeping behind a gate in a blizzard is plain stupid, crazy, and not done.
An example of a romantic snowstorm scene is Kanon's snow scenes. Romantic snowstorm is a gentle one imo.

It would have taken a few minutes (maybe more-maybe less) for Kazehaya to leave her sight. She also needs to walk to the gate eventually in order to leave, so I still don't see it as something crazy to do.

Schools having classes on days like that..... now that's crazy!

[orion]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

It would have taken a few minutes (maybe more-maybe less) for Kazehaya to leave her sight. She also needs to walk to the gate eventually in order to leave, so I still don't see it as something crazy to do.

Geez, rewatch the scene already (ep. 12 2:24-2:46). It's not what she's doing.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by orion

Geez, rewatch the scene already (ep. 12 2:24-2:46). It's not what she's doing.

I already did, what about you?

She is simply seeing him leave during a snowstorm. It's not as if she slept at the gate in order to get a glimpse of him.

[tsukimoto]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

These are extreme examples, but... do you or I need to interview the Joker (from Batman) to know that he has psychological issues? Do we need to interview Lex Luthor in order to know that he's a sociopath?

Joker: Arkham Asylum?

Lex: Never followed his story, but I'm pretty sure he's the guy that likes to escape from prison arbitrarily and I don't know, wants to destroy the earth or something like that.

Thing is, Lex has been around long enough to give us a full story of his life pretty much, Kurumi, not so much. And well, Joker, Arkham Asylum, uh, yeah, that's his life story right there.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Undermining a guy's romantic prospects for years? Strange.

Having a crush on a guy that spans several years, yet not pursuing him in a straightforward manner at all? Very strange.

I guess people around you and people around me live very different lives then.

Originally Posted by Orion

If she followed him around since middle school and they still didn't go out, then she should have "dumped" him for greener pastures in middle school. That's the normal female response.

What. There are so many girls here that don't "dump" them for other guys that still pursuing them has become the norm. I guess it's hard to say what's normal for what because it's different everywhere.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

I already did, what about you?

She is simply seeing him leave during a snowstorm. It's not as if she slept at the gate in order to get a glimpse of him.

I did. I supplied the time for the scene, remember. Obviously not living in a climate with snow and defending Kurumi is affecting your view of the situation.

If you haven't already, watch a season of Sayonara Zetsbuou Sensei to get a better feel for stalkers in anime.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by orion

I did. I supplied the time for the scene, remember. Obviously not living in a climate with snow and defending Kurumi is affecting your view of the situation.

By all means, do explain it to me then. I'll love to hear it out.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

By all means, do explain it to me then. I'll love to hear it out.

Watch SZS and come back in PM if don't understand.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by orion

Watch SZS and come back in PM if don't understand.

I did watch SZS and I do know the student you are refering to. Doesn't make your point all the more valid, though.

Kurumi was probably freezing her butt while seeing him leave, yet, it would make little sense for her to stay there longer than that. Again, she saw him leave and likely left soon after that.

Both probably end their classes at the same time (save club activities), so she didn't have to wait that long before he got there.

Again, Kurumi's stalking strikes me as being quite passive. If we go looking for evil deeds to accuse her of, her schemes are a much better target, me thinks.

Btw, I also feel we have been going in circles here for a while now. Do a closing comment on this if you feel like it and let us move on to something else for the sake of everyone reading this.