AnimeSuki Forums

Yebyosh · 2004-03-14, 21:59

There are some things the anime has done to increase my interest in Scar. But the main thing that got me thinking was the implied possible relations (no, not that kind of relations) with Lust.

My train of thought...

Hmm... Scar's elder brother with a female that Scar thinks Lust resembles.
Scar's elder brother playing around with alchemy to restore 'her'.
Scar keeps commenting on Lust's similarity with brother's girl.
Say... how old is Scar? Looks like early teens in that Isshuvarun war (lasted 13 years, ended 6 years back). So now early to late 20's?
Then if what the anime crew try to play with people's mind is true, then Lust must be less than 13 years old... wait that is not right...
Greed says 130 years have passed. The Sins know each other. Hereto, Lust is of equivalent age.
Something funny is going on down here...

Possible explanation (if what the anime crew's obvious sledgehammer on your head is true)...

Lust is created recently but knows Greed from seeing him in his prison.
or Scar is way older than we think he is and the war in his flashback is not the Isshuvarun Massacre but a war much earlier in the past (centuries back).

Possibility 1 can be discounted with the following material from the manga.

Spoiler:

Hence Possibility 2 would fit more to explain what the anime crew is trying to throw around here. Either that or we got ourselves an incongruity around here

or its a red herring and they are playing with our minds!!!

Grav · 2004-03-14, 22:46

Good points.

For a brief moment I thought of the idea that Scar's brother is Ed's dad, but how likely is that?

1. They (Ed's dad and Scar's brother) both delved into the Philosopher's stone.

2. Scar says that Ed has the same eyes as his brother. If Scar's brother shacked up with Ed's mom, the traits of the Ishbal people wouldn't be so apparent (Dark skin, red eyes)

3. We don't know when Scar's brother died, or if he actually did. Scar says so, but it might have been a trick of some sort.

Just a crazy theory

YuuOminae · 2004-03-14, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grav

Good points.

For a brief moment I thought of the idea that Scar's brother is Ed's dad, but how likely is that?

1. They (Ed's dad and Scar's brother) both delved into the Philosopher's stone.

2. Scar says that Ed has the same eyes as his brother. If Scar's brother shacked up with Ed's mom, the traits of the Ishbal people wouldn't be so apparent (Dark skin, red eyes)

3. We don't know when Scar's brother died, or if he actually did. Scar says so, but it might have been a trick of some sort.

Just a crazy theory

I really want to see this theory die since people seem to be misinterpreting what was said.
When Scar said they had the same eyes, he meant the same sort of look of determination Ed had.

Grav · 2004-03-14, 23:09

I've never seen that idea before I posted it here, but that's how it usually goes eh?

I'll let it die then.

sarcasteak · 2004-03-15, 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yebyosh

Either that or we got ourselves an incongruity around here

or its a red herring and they are playing with our minds!!!

Lust claimed ignorance both times Scar questioned her...so maybe the anime crew really is screwing with us!

Another theory could be that Lust impersonated as an Ishbala girl and enticed Scar's brother; she left him crazy over her and gave enough clues to Philosopher's Stone (or that he knew already)...then ran off. That theory doesn't make that much sense seeing how Lust really didn't seem to have any idea what Scar was talking about, though.

Gravi-T · 2004-03-15, 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yebyosh

There are some things the anime has done to increase my interest in Scar.

I think everyone have noticed the tattoo on Scar's forearm. And I really don't know if this will count as a spoiler (since I haven't read the manga)... but here it goes:

Namba roku-roku (?), #66 or Barry the Chopper implied that he had seen Scar's tattoo somewhere before. My theory is that he had been to that chamber (since his soul was affixed in the armor, they had to do it SOMEWHERE and why not the room of the "possible Philosopher's Stone"?).

So there is a connection between Scar, the room and the Philosopher's Stone. My guess is that Scar's brother implanted the tattoo on Scar. Because he needed a human sacrifice to make the Stone and the only available person was Scar. And in that experiment, he lost his own body (died) and Scar got an awful Philosopher's Tattoo. That's my theory! Feel free to speculate!
(I was going to make a thread similar to this, but that darn Yebyosh beat me to it

)

Also the text says Terra, which means Earth in Latin. I'll have to look up what Ndan. is short for and what colia/colla(can't really see which one it is) means.
I think A is a preposition. It probably means in or on. So we have "Earth in..." or "Earth on...".

As I said, I haven't read the manga and I hope you guys don't reveal any spoilers. From the manga, I mean.

UPDATE:
I Googled the abbreviation "Ndan.". Found a lot of jibberish in some Yugoslavian language. So I searched for "Ndan." latin. Same there, with one exception.
This site:
http://www.evertype.com/standards/wynnyogh/thorn.html
Here it is:

Quote:

3.1 Six sorting practices have been found for ÞORN. Two traditions of transliteration are known. As a helpful way of reviewing the literature, we have numbered these practices 1 through 8. Following that first number is a four-letter abbreviation for language (Goth ‘Gothic’, Grmc ‘Germanic’, Icel ‘Icelandic’, MEng ‘Middle English’, NDan ‘Modern Danish’, NEng ‘Modern English’, OEng ‘Old English’, OIce ‘Old Icelandic’, ONor ‘Old Norse’, Swed ‘Modern Swedish’) and the approximate date the sorting order was written (this may not reflect the date of the publication of the work and is meant to be approximate). It should be noted that in choosing the sorting orders used in the works below, editors may not only have been informed by the conventions of the target language (Old or Middle something); certainly that language has some influence but so has the language in which the work is written, the mother tongue of the author, or other theoretical considerations (cf. Bessinger’s use of Icelandic order for Old English at 1.OEng.1960 below).

So. What did we get from that? Ndan. might mean Modern Danish and since it says something about year... I thought that maybe some of the letters in the tattoo doesn't mean it is an abbreviation. MAYBE it is a DATE! If someone is familiar with Roman numerals, please try to reasearch this too!

I'm not quite sure if the makers of the anime and/or manga were trying to say something with this. Maybe the whole Alchemy event is based on reality from some place in Denmark, 1623? Just a guess. I hope that it is this complex, because it's fun to research things like this! And it shows how smart and hardworking the creators were.

END OF UPDATE

2ND UPDATE
Just a short one. If any one has the strength to research some more about alchemy and everything, try this website:
http://levity.com/alchemy/
There is a program for Latin translation. Can someone try it? I can't right now, I'm going to school now!

Bye!
END OF 2ND UPDATE

sarcasteak · 2004-03-15, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

Hm, how about another theory: Lust and the freind of Scar's brother simply look alike?
There are always people who look similar to others, so why shouldn't they just have the same face...
Okay, it isn't very likely, since it's an anime and in most cases something like this has some hidden meaning, but we shouldn't rule out this possibility.

Hehe we've already covered that with the "anime crew is messing with our heads" theory

SketchyMcChips · 2004-03-15, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravi-T

2ND UPDATE
Just a short one. If any one has the strength to research some more about alchemy and everything, try this website:
http://levity.com/alchemy/
There is a program for Latin translation. Can someone try it? I can't right now, I'm going to school now!

Bye!
END OF 2ND UPDATE

There's mention of the philosophers stone in one of the texts on this page.

read this http://levity.com/alchemy/arnaldus_treatise.html - its hard work as the english is very antiquated. When i've finished reading it i'll update and put some points of note in the post - just as a little teaser, theres talk of liquifying bodies and 'terra' as well...

Update 1
also try this text http://www.levity.com/alchemy/goldtrct.html - WARNING - it looks long and boring!!!

Update 2
From what i've been readinghttp://www.levity.com/alchemy/arsenal_.html it seems that, as we already know, the first part of the philospophers stone is made from parts of humans. None of the texts spell it out clearly - probably because it was seen as rather unsavoury. This part is called the 'Mercury'.

There are also the sun and moon parts to be added which seem to be Gold and Silver.

There is a slightly disturbing reference to 'the very pure menstruum of a prostitute woman'...

fenrihr · 2004-03-16, 01:58

if you notice a few eps back, scar's bro was covered in the same tattoos that are all over the room, my guess is that he figured it out and made an incomplete one, but went mad doing so, maybe it took something intangible, like his sanity.

there's a possibility, in my own head, that his brother grafted his right arm onto scar for some currently unknown reason, possibly he asked his brother to do it, or he asked someone to give him the right arm of his brother so he could do it.... who knows.... just my wild 'n' crazy theories.

as for the text, i'm sure it means something, but it's not going to mean what you think it means until you're told what exactly it means.... if you know what i mean....

also, don't neglect the couple of letters the the left and right of TERRA. i'm sure the letters mean a lot if you were to try and make sense of it.... or they mean absolutely nothing. probably no middle ground.

Kamui4356 · 2004-03-16, 03:43

We know that the tatoos have something to do with the philosopher's stone, and that scar's brother was doing research in that area, dispite alchemy being banned among the ishtar people. It's possible that Lust was trying to influence Scar's brother into making a philosopher's stone, and that was really her. Though that doesn't really make that much sense...
What I'm more intrested in is why the Ishtar people banned alchemy. Since that tatoo and the markings in that room were based on Ishtar research from before the ban, it's obvious that they were trying to create a philosopher's stone long ago. Maybe that has something to do with the ban. Or maybe it has something to do with the creation of the sins...

ziphra · 2004-03-16, 06:39

I don't know much about the manga or alchemy for that matter.
But I have a theory that could be likely? I dunno, it popped into my mind.

I'll put spoilers just in case...

Spoiler:

EDIT: oh and for the Latin Translator, all I got was "Earth from...ndan" so Whatever NDAN means is up to interpretation till we can find the actual meaning.

Gravi-T · 2004-03-16, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziphra

I don't know much about the manga or alchemy for that matter.
But I have a theory that could be likely? I dunno, it popped into my mind.

I'll put spoilers just in case...

Spoiler:

EDIT: oh and for the Latin Translator, all I got was "Earth from...ndan" so Whatever NDAN means is up to interpretation till we can find the actual meaning.

Well part of that theory was the thing that that I wrote.

Okay, we've got "Earth from Ndan.". Does it mean Earth as in Tellus or earth as in soil? Maybe it means that one of the components in the PS (Philosopher's Stone) is "soil from Ndan."? Or that it first was created/found in Ndan.?

By the way, has anyone heard of the towns in FMA? Like Youswell Coal Mine and Central City and so on. There was one town called... Xenocity? Xenogear? Zerocity? Something like that. If someone can look the cities up, we might get a geographical location of where Ndan. is. Or something like that.

If we can crack this case before the last episode (Ep. 52) we'd be Sherlock Holmes-kind of detectives! That means we'd be REALLY good!

Good luck to everyone!

Fighter Volk · 2004-03-16, 14:11

Ndan... Xenotime? Yeah, Xenotime did indeed have a whole thing going on with *earth*, but.... hmm, let's examine the simple stuff between Earth as Terranigma or Earth as soil...

Earth as Terranigma... so, Terranigma, being our 'Earth', so Terranigma from... perhaps that would imply that the Philosopher's Stone has something to do with the origin of the world? Hmmm....

Or, soil from Ndan... then indeed, we might look to Xenotime, or a city we haven't seen yet. Then that would mean that the Philosopher's Stone originated from the earth?

Anyway, this is simply stating the obvious.

sarcasteak · 2004-03-16, 16:21

Like everyone else, I don't really have an idea what Ndan means... maybe "Eden"? *shrugs*

Gravi-T · 2004-03-16, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fighter Volk

Ndan... Xenotime? Yeah, Xenotime did indeed have a whole thing going on with *earth*, but.... hmm, let's examine the simple stuff between Earth as Terranigma or Earth as soil...

Earth as Terranigma... so, Terranigma, being our 'Earth', so Terranigma from... perhaps that would imply that the Philosopher's Stone has something to do with the origin of the world? Hmmm....

Or, soil from Ndan... then indeed, we might look to Xenotime, or a city we haven't seen yet. Then that would mean that the Philosopher's Stone originated from the earth?

Anyway, this is simply stating the obvious.

I think you got something wrong.
Tellus = The Earth
Terranigma = The mystery of The Earth
Terra = Earth or The Earth

Calling our planet Terranigma is wrong. The word Terranigma is Terra and Enigma put to one. And it means The Mystery of The Earth or The Riddle of The Earth. I guess you got the word Terranigma from the game. :P

But yeah, it might have something to do with the creation of the world. Maybe The PS is the thing that made the Big Bang? :O

But terra as soil might mean that The PS actually can revive people. Because you don't become ONE with the EARTH unless you DIE. And that's when you get buried and after a while you "turn into" soil too. SO, if you die you regain your life with that Transmutation Circle and it might mean that Ndan. in some way is LIFE or DEATH.
So I think that it might be either
EARTH FROM LIFE or
EARTH FROM DEATH
But that's not a translation, it's just a wild guess. Keep looking everyone!

Grav · 2004-03-16, 17:17

http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/m...php?deity=NDAN

NDAN gives his or her (or its) name to the seventh day of the Mayan nine-day week.

Seven part transmutation circle?

Besides that, from what I can tell ndan is a word in arabic or somesuch.

fenrihr · 2004-03-16, 18:21

ed did modify the 6-point array to a 7-point array. is there a pattern of 7 in the tattoo? i couldn't say as i've not seen the whole thing.

earth from seven? earth from seven days?

it's def an abbreviation, but most words i've seen after searching will end with "______'ndan"
rather than starting with it.

(and now i just found NDAN means 'and yet', "on the contraty", and "on the other hand", plus a good many other things in elvish from Tolkien's LotR, he used Elric, why not?)

(see here http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:8...hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

Grav · 2004-03-16, 18:25

It might just be a suffix like maru.

ziphra · 2004-03-16, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravi-T

Well part of that theory was the thing that that I wrote.

ah Gomen! sorry to sorta "steal" your theory. I must not of read this thread thouroughly...Gomen! Gomen! Gomen!

EDIT: oops forgot to get to my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenrihr

(and now i just found NDAN means 'and yet', "on the contraty", and "on the other hand" in elvish from Tolkien's LotR, he used Elric, why not?)

ok putting two and two for neat sake, we have "Earth on 'on the contrary" or "Earth on 'and yet" which we could probably shorten out to "Earth on the contrary." for the first one. now...what in the world does that mean?

EDIT TWO: OMG...ok forgot to read Grav's definition of NDAN. taking THAT into account on its own we have "Earth on the seventh day." maybe its some kind of metaphor for creating something on the seventh day? we shouldn't take it fundamentally, like the Bible [although some do take the creation stories fundamentally.] so, any interpretations?

Rasengan · 2004-03-16, 23:19

I was told by some Japanese pen-pals that the tattos on Scar's arm and the same marking on his brother and in the room is the marking for Philosopher Stone, the marking has to be in the Transmutation circle or somewhere near the Alchemist to be able to create the complete Philosopher's stone.

IF this is true, then I think that Lust indeed did make Scar's brother fall in love with her, faked her death, then made him create a PS to revive her. Maybe he was like Ed, someone Lust wanted to lure into making the stone by giving him as much clue about the Philosopher's Stone as she can. Then maybe he did create a PS, but went insane doing so and killed many Ishbar people, so he put the marking on Scar's arm hoping he will again create the stone in his steps to achieve some kind of dream. And I have no clue as to what happened to the first PS Scar's brother made...

^ Not very likely because it doesn't make much sense but yeah.

2004-03-14, 21:59	Link #1
Yebyosh 冤枉的小狗 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: South East Asia	[Discussion] Lustful Scars (Spoilerful if you have not watch up till ep23) There are some things the anime has done to increase my interest in Scar. But the main thing that got me thinking was the implied possible relations (no, not that kind of relations) with Lust. My train of thought... Hmm... Scar's elder brother with a female that Scar thinks Lust resembles. Scar's elder brother playing around with alchemy to restore 'her'. Scar keeps commenting on Lust's similarity with brother's girl. Say... how old is Scar? Looks like early teens in that Isshuvarun war (lasted 13 years, ended 6 years back). So now early to late 20's? Then if what the anime crew try to play with people's mind is true, then Lust must be less than 13 years old... wait that is not right... Greed says 130 years have passed. The Sins know each other. Hereto, Lust is of equivalent age. Something funny is going on down here... Possible explanation (if what the anime crew's obvious sledgehammer on your head is true)... Lust is created recently but knows Greed from seeing him in his prison. or Scar is way older than we think he is and the war in his flashback is not the Isshuvarun Massacre but a war much earlier in the past (centuries back). Possibility 1 can be discounted with the following material from the manga. Spoiler: Lust knows Wrath. Greed does not know Wrath but knows Lust. Wrath is 60 years old. Ergo, Lust is at least 60+years old. Note that so far Scar's history in the manga is still shrouded in much mystery. I believe he also shows no signs of recognition of Lust's features. Hence Possibility 2 would fit more to explain what the anime crew is trying to throw around here. Either that or we got ourselves an incongruity around here or its a red herring and they are playing with our minds!!!

2004-03-16, 03:43	Link #10
Kamui4356 Aria Company Join Date: Nov 2003	We know that the tatoos have something to do with the philosopher's stone, and that scar's brother was doing research in that area, dispite alchemy being banned among the ishtar people. It's possible that Lust was trying to influence Scar's brother into making a philosopher's stone, and that was really her. Though that doesn't really make that much sense... What I'm more intrested in is why the Ishtar people banned alchemy. Since that tatoo and the markings in that room were based on Ishtar research from before the ban, it's obvious that they were trying to create a philosopher's stone long ago. Maybe that has something to do with the ban. Or maybe it has something to do with the creation of the sins... __________________

2004-03-16, 06:39	Link #11
ziphra Seed Whore Galore!?! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hills and such... Age: 37	I don't know much about the manga or alchemy for that matter. But I have a theory that could be likely? I dunno, it popped into my mind. I'll put spoilers just in case... Spoiler: Well, in the series the creation of the philosopher's stone required the sacrifice of human lives. Relating the fact that Scar's brother searched for a way to create the stone, and somehow the same tatoo design on Scar's arm is on the walls of that room from Eppy. 22, just without any justification lets just say that it [the tatoo design] is required for the transmutation of the stone. [Obviously ziph, its a transmutation circle sorta thingie...] Maybe, just MAYBE [^_^] knowing that human sacrifices were necessary in order to create a Complete Philosopher's Stone, Scar's brother gave him an arm tatooed with the necessary transmutation circles for the creation of the philosopher's stone, just rapped around a human arm. In this way, everytime Scar's arm kills a person (why he is aiming for State Alchemist's is probably beyond me, maybe just because he hates them...or something he doesn't quite know himself?) it fulfills part of the requirements for the Philosopher's Stone! but this is just my theory on the idea... EDIT: oh and for the Latin Translator, all I got was "Earth from...ndan" so Whatever NDAN means is up to interpretation till we can find the actual meaning. Last edited by ziphra; 2004-03-16 at 06:58.

2004-03-16, 18:21	Link #17
fenrihr is dime-a-dozen Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rich., VA	ed did modify the 6-point array to a 7-point array. is there a pattern of 7 in the tattoo? i couldn't say as i've not seen the whole thing. earth from seven? earth from seven days? it's def an abbreviation, but most words i've seen after searching will end with "______'ndan" rather than starting with it. (and now i just found NDAN means 'and yet', "on the contraty", and "on the other hand", plus a good many other things in elvish from Tolkien's LotR, he used Elric, why not?) (see here http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:8...hl=en&ie=UTF-8) Last edited by fenrihr; 2004-03-16 at 23:12.

2004-03-14, 22:46	Link #2
Grav Gone Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New York	Good points. For a brief moment I thought of the idea that Scar's brother is Ed's dad, but how likely is that? 1. They (Ed's dad and Scar's brother) both delved into the Philosopher's stone. 2. Scar says that Ed has the same eyes as his brother. If Scar's brother shacked up with Ed's mom, the traits of the Ishbal people wouldn't be so apparent (Dark skin, red eyes) 3. We don't know when Scar's brother died, or if he actually did. Scar says so, but it might have been a trick of some sort. Just a crazy theory

2004-03-14, 23:09	Link #4
Grav Gone Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New York	I've never seen that idea before I posted it here, but that's how it usually goes eh? I'll let it die then.

2004-03-16, 01:58	Link #9
fenrihr is dime-a-dozen Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rich., VA	if you notice a few eps back, scar's bro was covered in the same tattoos that are all over the room, my guess is that he figured it out and made an incomplete one, but went mad doing so, maybe it took something intangible, like his sanity. there's a possibility, in my own head, that his brother grafted his right arm onto scar for some currently unknown reason, possibly he asked his brother to do it, or he asked someone to give him the right arm of his brother so he could do it.... who knows.... just my wild 'n' crazy theories. as for the text, i'm sure it means something, but it's not going to mean what you think it means until you're told what exactly it means.... if you know what i mean.... also, don't neglect the couple of letters the the left and right of TERRA. i'm sure the letters mean a lot if you were to try and make sense of it.... or they mean absolutely nothing. probably no middle ground.

2004-03-16, 14:11	Link #13
Fighter Volk Thanks sakurabatou @ LJ Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NYC	Ndan... Xenotime? Yeah, Xenotime did indeed have a whole thing going on with earth, but.... hmm, let's examine the simple stuff between Earth as Terranigma or Earth as soil... Earth as Terranigma... so, Terranigma, being our 'Earth', so Terranigma from... perhaps that would imply that the Philosopher's Stone has something to do with the origin of the world? Hmmm.... Or, soil from Ndan... then indeed, we might look to Xenotime, or a city we haven't seen yet. Then that would mean that the Philosopher's Stone originated from the earth? Anyway, this is simply stating the obvious.

2004-03-16, 16:21	Link #14
sarcasteak WAHA~ Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: World overloaded with fun Age: 39	Like everyone else, I don't really have an idea what Ndan means... maybe "Eden"? shrugs

2004-03-16, 17:17	Link #16
Grav Gone Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New York	http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/m...php?deity=NDAN NDAN gives his or her (or its) name to the seventh day of the Mayan nine-day week. Seven part transmutation circle? Besides that, from what I can tell ndan is a word in arabic or somesuch.

2004-03-16, 18:25	Link #18
Grav Gone Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New York	It might just be a suffix like maru.

2004-03-16, 23:19	Link #20
Rasengan Member Join Date: Dec 2003	I was told by some Japanese pen-pals that the tattos on Scar's arm and the same marking on his brother and in the room is the marking for Philosopher Stone, the marking has to be in the Transmutation circle or somewhere near the Alchemist to be able to create the complete Philosopher's stone. IF this is true, then I think that Lust indeed did make Scar's brother fall in love with her, faked her death, then made him create a PS to revive her. Maybe he was like Ed, someone Lust wanted to lure into making the stone by giving him as much clue about the Philosopher's Stone as she can. Then maybe he did create a PS, but went insane doing so and killed many Ishbar people, so he put the marking on Scar's arm hoping he will again create the stone in his steps to achieve some kind of dream. And I have no clue as to what happened to the first PS Scar's brother made... ^ Not very likely because it doesn't make much sense but yeah.