Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You see, that's the thing; the "other way" would mean trying to remain as a politician and force his own views on others. That's how it works, but that's not what he wanted. Lulu doesn't WANT to be a God-King. He would much prefer people to rule themselves. As long as he stays, he can't be much more than a tyrant.

And if he has to leave, he wants to leave in a way that teaches a valuable moral lesson for everyone. Hence the bloody fairy-tale ending that Lulu haters on the board wanted, except it is all planned out intentionally instead of being forced on Lulu by his enemies.
(When I said, fairy-tale, I mean the classic fairytale with blood and death.)

Damocles might not have made as much of an effective symbol as a person, but it would have worked nonetheless. That was the other way I meant. I get why he did it, of course, and it does make for a rather effective plan, but it still seems a bit of a waste that Lelouch felt he personally needed to be that symbol.

[Utau]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Kallen wasn't in any position to understand it before that. It's like trying to assemble a puzzle with the pieces hidden everywhere. What's important is she knew what to do when the time came.

Yes, sadly, at this point nothing can lift my grudge against Kallen. I use to have high hopes for her. Though, just for this episode only, this epilogue, i was relieved and happy that she finally figured it out in the end. That was one of the best moment the episode had.

it's not hate, just a grudge and disappointment .

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You see, that's the thing; the "other way" would mean trying to remain as a politician and force his own views on others. That's how it works, but that's not what he wanted. Lulu doesn't WANT to be a God-King. He would much prefer people to rule themselves. As long as he stays, he can't be much more than a tyrant.

And if he has to leave, he wants to leave in a way that teaches a valuable moral lesson for everyone. Hence the bloody fairy-tale ending that Lulu haters on the board wanted, except it is all planned out intentionally instead of being forced on Lulu by his enemies.
(When I said, fairy-tale, I mean the classic fairytale with blood and death.)

I would prefer a more realistic version rather than something that comes off like a kids show. If all it took was two months of a tyrant than their would be no more war.

Also some scenes in it where ridiculous

1. The inappropiate bondage: Whose idea was it to have a bondage fetish scene in the middle of the climax? Look at Schneizel, and Nunally, it doesn't make Lelouch look like a tyrant, it makes him look like his a depraved bisexual who has sex with his family.
2. The new Prime Minister: so Ohgi can't run a group of 5 people but his supposed to rebuild japan, which is a third world country due to war?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Damocles might not have made as much of an effective symbol as a person, but it would have worked nonetheless. That was the other way I meant. I get why he did it, of course, and it does make for a rather effective plan, but it still seems a bit of a waste that Lelouch felt he personally needed to be that symbol.

Lulu is the type to put himself up to it.

And anyway, at least this time he didn't do it alone; Suzaku was necessary as the other half of the team in order to complete the deception and lie to the world one-last-time.

Charles stopped lying, and instead told everyone to be wild animals that they are deep inside. Lulu lied, in order to make people believe justice exists and that evil can be killed.

And in the end, isn't it what's needed? Justice cannot exist until people believe. Lulu had to pull one last rabbit from the hat, be a showman to the end, and give the world audience one last Act.

[Hiku]

Originally Posted by Utau

Yes, sadly, at this point nothing can lift my grudge against Kallen. I use to have high hopes for her. Though, just for this episode only, this epilogue, i was relieved and happy that she finally figured it out in the end. That was one of the best moment the episode had.

it's not hate, just a grudge and disappointment .

I was disappointed in Kallen too. Her reasons for siding with Schneizel seemed unconvincing. Or at least much more so than for the others. She confronted Lelouch about the possibility of him having used the Geass on her long ago. So was it because of what he did to Euphemia? It's not like nuking the capital with FLEIJA is any better.
And when Lelouch showed that he was holding the board members as hostages, she said "to think he went that far.."

That far? What about you guys having the entire world as hostage with FLEIJA and Damoncles? You even executed thousands of people just to get to Lelouch.



Lelouch estimate of her intelligence in episode 10 sadly seems to make sense now.

But I'm glad she realized everything in the end. That redeemed her a bit in my eyes.

Too bad the Black Knights were stupid enough to betray Lelouch. If they hadn't, Lelouch probably wouldn't have been forced to become the emperor.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

1. The inappropiate bondage: Whose idea was it to have a bondage fetish scene in the middle of the climax? Look at Schneizel, and Nunally, it doesn't make Lelouch look like a tyrant, it makes him look like his a depraved bisexual who has sex with his family.
2. The new Prime Minister: so Ohgi can't run a group of 5 people but his supposed to rebuild japan, which is a third world country due to war?

1. He had to make a point. Nunnally's treatment was a bit odd, but Schneizel's was right on the money. He had it look like Schneizel was beaten and made him dress in rags. It accented his evil tyrant persona.

2. One would assume he has a cabinet which is offsetting his lack of skill.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Lulu is the type to put himself up to it.

And anyway, at least this time he didn't do it alone; Suzaku was necessary as the other half of the team in order to complete the deception and lie to the world one-last-time.

Charles stopped lying, and instead told everyone to be wild animals that they are deep inside. Lulu lied, in order to make people believe justice exists and that evil can be killed.

And in the end, isn't it what's needed? Justice cannot exist until people believe. Lulu had to pull one last rabbit from the hat, be a showman to the end, and give the world audience one last Act.

Yeah, I know, but I still don't like it. Before the Black Knights betrayed him, I don't think Lelouch would ever resort to something quite so drastic. What he would have created would have been more tentative, but it could have worked. With the betrayal, coupled with Rolo's death and killing off his own parents, I figure Lelouch was so disillusioned with the world that he was willing to remove himself from it to see it change.

Of course, if Lelouch really did survive and is roaming around with C.C., at least he was able to find some sort of happiness.

[SukyAnime2]

This episode blew me away.

Everything happened so fast, that i'm still a bit overwhelmed after watching it. I'm neither satisfied nor disappointed. Killing off Lelouch practically closed off all doors to a new season, which means that this is the absolute end of all ends. Hm.

Anyway, perfect 10/10 and gets my vote for best anime of 2008.

By the way, what the next show to fill the time slot for code geass?

[MaiHikari]

Ahh, the final revelation of Lelouch's plan is pure epic. It (almost) redeemed all the plot holes for me. In the end, he managed to trick the world without geassing everyone. The few that knows of his true intentions are living out their just desert. Suzaku must kill his best friend and continue to live as Zero, once again, playing the hero. Nunnaly must live without her brother, working to bring about world peace. Kallen didn't end up with Lelouch because she didn't believe in him. Charles must continue to obey zero. Orange-kun must spend the remainder of his servitude to do something productive, like planting oranges.

I wont deny the possiblity that Lelouch survives. There may be little evidence to this end, but I'll chose to believe it because I prefer happy endings. Lelouch broke the ultimate geass curse--he is no longer alone cuz he's with CC!

Is there a possiblity of a season 3? Very slim. It's best if they just end it here. At least one of my favorite anime this season can deliver a satisfactory ending!

10/10

[Utau]

Originally Posted by Hiku

It was just that he continued to say these things after saying that tis was Suzaku's punishment that I thought that was it. It could very well be about killing Lelouch as well though. Since you didn't see the sub I thought that might shed some light on some details. ^^

I did catch the image you posted.
I'm not saying i don't agree, both are a possibility. I was just explaining my recent post more

i'll watch the subs when i get home.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You see, that's the thing; the "other way" would mean trying to remain as a politician and force his own views on others. That's how it works, but that's not what he wanted. Lulu doesn't WANT to be a God-King. He would much prefer people to rule themselves. As long as he stays, he can't be much more than a tyrant.

Yes. "Enforced kindness", as he put it. Also, Xingke and Ougi didn't seem very open to diplomacy. However, I'm not sure he couldn't have solved that, and weaned the people off his enlightened tyranny, if he'd just given himself time.

But I acknowledge his choice. It's very much like him.

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

I would prefer a more realistic version rather than something that comes off like a kids show. If all it took was two months of a tyrant than their would be no more war.

It's not supposed to erase war forever. It's supposed to give people a new start. A chance at peace, one step at a time.

2. The new Prime Minister: so Ohgi can't run a group of 5 people but his supposed to rebuild japan, which is a third world country due to war?

Right place right time. It counts for more than competence. (And it's not like anyone ever had a real problem with his competence. He's not Tamaki.)

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Lulu is the type to put himself up to it.

And anyway, at least this time he didn't do it alone; Suzaku was necessary as the other half of the team in order to complete the deception and lie to the world one-last-time.

Charles stopped lying, and instead told everyone to be wild animals that they are deep inside. Lulu lied, in order to make people believe justice exists and that evil can be killed.

And in the end, isn't it what's needed? Justice cannot exist until people believe. Lulu had to pull one last rabbit from the hat, be a showman to the end, and give the world audience one last Act.

It reminds me of Hogfather, by Terry Pratchett. "It's the little lies that make the humans the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape", or something like that.

Maybe justice, compassion and so on are lies. But we must first believe in them if we are to make them real, which is also a theme of Code Geass.

[GodOfSpeed]

Anyone knows what's the song that's played at the end of code geass? Not the ED but that around 19:30

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by SukyAnime2

This episode blew me away.

Everything happened so fast, that i'm still a bit overwhelmed after watching it. I'm neither satisfied nor disappointed. Killing off Lelouch practically closed off all doors to a new season, which means that this is the absolute end of all ends. Hm.

Anyway, perfect 10/10 and gets my vote for best anime of 2008.

By the way, what the next show to fill the time slot for code geass?

Gundam 00 Second Season.

[Utau]

Originally Posted by Hiku

Spoiler:

Lelouch estimate of her intelligence in episode 10 sadly seems to make sense now.

But I'm glad she realized everything in the end. That redeemed her a bit in my eyes.

Too bad the Black Knights were stupid enough to betray Lelouch. If they hadn't, Lelouch probably wouldn't have been forced to become the emperor.

When was that? i lol'd

it'll be a long time till i re-watch the whole series again, still waiting for a certain group to finish theirs. Anyways,

I was disappointed in Kallen too. Her reasons for siding with Schneizel seemed unconvincing. Or at least much more so than for the others. She confronted Lelouch about the possibility of him having used the Geass on her long ago. So was it because of what he did to Euphemia? It's not like nuking the capital with FLEIJA is any better.
And when Lelouch showed that he was holding the board members as hostages, she said "to think he went that far.."

That far? What about you guys having the entire world as hostage with FLEIJA and Damoncles? You even sxcecuted thousands of people just to get to Lelouch.

No.
He lied to the OotBK when he was confronted. Naturally, Kallen will think she was played same goes for Ougi and the rest. Then, Lelouch's recent action was unacceptable and they have to oppose him because they thought Lelouch is an evil tyrant. I don't blame her for that, if Lelouch didn't give her hints that is. Schneizel (i never thought i'd miss typing his name again.. ) then continued to put a 'mask' infront of the OotBKs.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

1. He had to make a point. Nunnally's treatment was a bit odd, but Schneizel's was right on the money. He had it look like Schneizel was beaten and made him dress in rags. It accented his evil tyrant persona.

2. One would assume he has a cabinet which is offsetting his lack of skill.

Yeah, I know, but I still don't like it. Before the Black Knights betrayed him, I don't think Lelouch would ever resort to something quite so drastic. What he would have created would have been more tentative, but it could have worked. With the betrayal, coupled with Rolo's death and killing off his own parents, I figure Lelouch was so disillusioned with the world that he was willing to remove himself from it to see it change.

Of course, if Lelouch really did survive and is roaming around with C.C., at least he was able to find some sort of happiness.

The problem is that its kind of inappropiate, and ruins the drama when I am laughing at it.

And why would the Diet elect a crappy Prime Minister based on having a competent cabinent.

[MaiHikari]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

And why would the Diet elect a crappy Prime Minister based on having a competent cabinent.

That's Ougi's punishment. He must continue to look like a fool in public.

[Utau]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

The problem is that its kind of inappropiate, and ruins the drama when I am laughing at it.

And why would the Diet elect a crappy Prime Minister based on having a competent cabinent.

that doesn't He can't learn. Even if it takes him his whole darn life.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

The problem is that its kind of inappropiate, and ruins the drama when I am laughing at it.

And why would the Diet elect a crappy Prime Minister based on having a competent cabinent.

1. Yes, it was extreme, but Lulu was trying to sculpture a perfect "bathing in the blood of virgins" kind of tyrant without actually draining anyone's blood. Putting people in bondage gear would give an image of insane depravity appropriate for future story-telling, without the need to cause permanent harm to them. An alternative would be hacking people's heads off and put them up on pikes, but Lulu wasn't willing to do any more than superficial evil.

2. And technically Ougi is a war-hero who freed Japan. Yes, it's a lie, but it's the same lie that has made Suzaku into Zero and Lulu into the Devil. Ougi would now have to play the part of "the great man" who would be respected by many, knowing deep down that he is not deserving of the praise, but had to play the role that was given because his marriage with a Britannian is helping to mend international relations.

Code Geass is built on lies. But lies that do good is preferable to truth that would lead the world to ruin. (This is my personal opinion. Your mileage might vary, and I would respect that.)

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

1. Yes, it was extreme, but Lulu was trying to sculpture a perfect "bathing in the blood of virgins" kind of tyrant without actually draining anyone's blood. Putting people in bondage gear would give an image of insane depravity appropriate for future story-telling, without the need to cause permanent harm to them. An alternative would be hacking people's heads off and put them up on pikes, but Lulu wasn't willing to do any more than superficial evil.

2. And technically Ougi is a war-hero who freed Japan. Yes, it's a lie, but it's the same lie that has made Suzaku into Zero and Lulu into the Devil. Ougi would now have to play the part of "the great man" who would be respected by many, knowing deep down that he is not deserving of the praise, but had to play the role that was given because his marriage with a Britannian is helping to mend international relations.

Code Geass is built on lies. But lies that do good is preferable to truth that would lead the world to ruin. (This is my personal opinion. Your mileage might vary, and I would respect that.)

Between this, everyone's in straitjackets in prison, and C.C I think someone on the staff has a bondage fetish.

I should point out once again, Japan is a third world country since all the rich people are dead. Does Ougi sound like the kind of guy that can restore Japan from utter poverty.

[Anh_Minh]

Britania has an institutionalised bondage fetish. Clearly, the nation is evil.

Also, Japan still has sakuradite. China will certainly be interested in helping them rebuild, though one may wonder what they'll ask in exchange...

[Double_Edge]

This episode was so sad. =[

Lelouch is such a hero. =[ I feel sorry for Nunally too.....
Such a beautiful ending. I firmly believe that Lelouch did die. IF he didn;t that would just be a cop out. He died a hero (not in the eyes of the people in the show) and it should be like that because it was just so beautiful.... =[

Plus he had those bags under his eyes, so I dont think he had the code. Whenever people with the code pretended to be dead, they just closed their eyes and bled. No other signs of an anime death, unlike Lelouch.

CC is probably living in solitude, but she is hitchhiking with some random unnamed guy, hence the briefcase and the fact that she is standing alone in the ending. I refuse to acknowledge that the driver is lelouch.

The wedding picture, although heartwarming, was also very weird to me. Why is Cornelia, Todou and some of the black knights there? Each of the people i named were extremely discriminatory to the other race throughout the series. Actually, never mind, I understand the Black Knights being there since they were forced to work together with Viletta and probably became friends, plus they're friends with Oughi. But why is Cornelia there? She HATED japanese people and she was EXTREMEMLY racis to them in season 1!! She's not even friends with Viletta!!! Same goes for her knight. And wtf? Why is the "nani nani mai hunny" girl there?!?!? It's so obvious the writers just put here there for a joke, but it was funny, so i don;t mind it but still, wth?

Awesome episode, awesome ending (bittersweet), awesome show. Cant wait til they release the rest of the DVD's in the US. USA!! USA!!! USA!!!