AnimeSuki Forums

agetreme · 2013-05-06, 21:18

Spoiler for Horror?:

faiz blaster · 2013-05-06, 21:23

Recently, people have been going around about how could Kamijou "power-up" so to say. Thus, I decided to deliver my two cents.

First, I've always thought of Kamijou as someone who rejected the supernatural on a fundamental level. If you stop to analyze some general traits of the setting, it is possible to see a certain pattern in it: that is, characters will usually have powers and abilities that somewhat reflect their base natures as individuals (i.e. Kanzaki and her "martyr-complex", Accelerator and his "hedgehog syndrome", Index and her "potentially-important-but-mostly-useless" role as a heroine, etc...). Kamijou Touma is no different. As if proving that, he never took the supernatural powers or special abilities anyone possessed into consideration when evaluating them (much to Misaka Mikoto's chagrin

).

Thus, I think it is safe to say that he will never seek out a "power-up" by means of strong ESP or magic on his own accord. This would mostly limit him to two "paths of growth" - which I would like to call the "Sasaki Path" and the "God of Pestilence Path".

Spoiler for Sasaki Path:

Spoiler for God of Pestilence Path:

Between these two, I would personally go with the former rather than the latter. If he goes down the path of God of Pestilence, JUST MAYBE he might find a way to use his powers in a positive manner. However, it is much more likely that he will become the greatest of the evils - an enemy of the world.

tsunade666 · 2013-05-06, 23:49

I'm focus on trying to figure out how to fix Touma's problem that I forgot that he is macguyver in the making and I also detest power ups. This brought up new possibilities and problem on how to handle him. Learning martial arts is fine but what kind of martial arts would be useful. A versatile one where the right hand is the finisher and hte left hand is a support or his whole body is a weapon and the surrounding environment is an extension of his body to help him in the fight.

The god of pestilence is also nice. Trying to control the "bad luck" in the air. Controlling it actively and using it towards the enemy or a target to fall into "such misfortune" in different levels but I doubt he will turn evil because to Touma its just gray path.

Hmm hmm.... trying to solve problems by being creative is a sign of a good writer.

Rising Dragon · 2013-05-06, 23:52

Given the accidents that come from training in martial arts, doing so would probably be hazardous to Touma's health, given his luck.

Flere821 · 2013-05-07, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Given the accidents that come from training in martial arts, doing so would probably be hazardous to Touma's health, given his luck.

Alternatively, Touma's body adapts and he gets a muscular body on par with Tsuchimikado from being beaten up so much. Death and disability won't be a problem with Heaven Canceller around.

tsunade666 · 2013-05-07, 00:19

Touma's body should be hard already with all the beaten up he endure. It might not be a body builder body but its solid.

demino_hellsin · 2013-05-07, 04:51

Why not give imagine breaker the ability to switch references?

jalvin_billster1091 · 2013-05-07, 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

Why not give imagine breaker the ability to switch references?

Switch References?

demino_hellsin · 2013-05-07, 05:23

Imagine breaker destroys distortions by returning the world to its original state. But what is the original state? There has to be a basis, a reference right?

tsunade666 · 2013-05-07, 05:47

The reference point. There has no clue on what is the reference point of the world but for now. The views of Kamijou touma is the reference world.

I'm thinking of a different form of IB.

MeisterBabylon · 2013-05-07, 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

Imagine breaker destroys distortions by returning the world to its original state. But what is the original state? There has to be a basis, a reference right?

Imagine Breaker is the proof of concept of Absolute Reality. A state of existence that remains true on all possibilities, and a existence hinted at by quantum mechanics.

Its a concept that I expounded on in Star Trek as to the operations of the Department of Temporal Investigations, but until you guys started talking about it I didn't even realize my theory applied here.

demino_hellsin · 2013-05-07, 07:02

This absolute reality that you describe is the cosmos then?

Dyingbreath · 2013-05-07, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

This absolute reality that you describe is the cosmos then?

Possibly a point in time, one before magic or ESPers so that any magic or ESPer power is negated.
Of course that wouldn't explain how it could harm angels... though it was never shown harming an angel...

faiz blaster · 2013-05-07, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

I'm focus on trying to figure out how to fix Touma's problem that I forgot that he is macguyver in the making and I also detest power ups. This brought up new possibilities and problem on how to handle him. Learning martial arts is fine but what kind of martial arts would be useful. A versatile one where the right hand is the finisher and hte left hand is a support or his whole body is a weapon and the surrounding environment is an extension of his body to help him in the fight.

The god of pestilence is also nice. Trying to control the "bad luck" in the air. Controlling it actively and using it towards the enemy or a target to fall into "such misfortune" in different levels but I doubt he will turn evil because to Touma its just gray path.

Hmm hmm.... trying to solve problems by being creative is a sign of a good writer.

No. This is important, so I'm repeating myself here: just no. The basic premise behind God of Pestilence is that Kamijou CAN'T have ANY control over his powers. He might learn how to take advantage of them (just like he currently does with IB), but his will cannot have any sort of influence over those powers. That is why I said that he would turn into a enemy of the world. It is not that he becomes evil, but rather he will turn into a breathing, walking natural disaster that brings misfortune wherever he goes - REGARDLESS OF HIS OWN WISHES.

demino_hellsin · 2013-05-07, 08:42

Funny thought. If IB really does delete distortions and it takes a reference on a scale beyond the user's own world but instead of the whole realm of infinite universes and the like, doesn't that mean it knows all the worlds and merely removes what is not natural to that world? Like a secretary who makes sure each file is in the right compartment and sends to the shredder what doesn't belong.

If this is the case, then if you move Touma from his world to another world, then wouldn't IB negate his existence?

What about an alternative? That IB would move to someone else who is more suitable? In this case, how would a regular luck Touma be like? What would be unleashed with the seal of IB gone?

MeisterBabylon · 2013-05-07, 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

This absolute reality that you describe is the cosmos then?

Its just reality that cannot be changed, because it is always true. The convergence point of all quantum realities and timelines, the ultimate expression of the Unifying Theory. In Star Trek, that reality is maintained by a certain omega particle energy frequency. In Toaru, its 'enforced' by Imagine Breaker.

But really, I think its actually because Touma is a being above God, so he just rejects everything else. Being a God himself, he actually has insanely good luck, just that to the rest of us and himself, it looks like incredibly bad luck.

In the end, only history will tell if he really was FUKOU DA. Because it sure doesn't look like misfortune to me, given his adventures.

tsunade666 · 2013-05-07, 09:55

Actually making him move on different world would indeed put him as the distortion that needed to be corrected. His own life will be negated or erased. Which is why you need to put your power as fanfic author to work on that part

As for IB harming angels. It wasn't shown that its harming them. Its erasing them because they are alien to the world. They re just being cut off from this world and since they are entirely legend or immortals on their own might. They will be alive in different realm but erased in this realm.

Taking consideration that Touma's life will be erased because IB decide him as an alien being on the world and IB doesn't view things from good and evil. Everything is balance on it. Which you will be needing a good story to back that up. A a story that could be present is IB updates its database base on the current world. While Toum is still alien but since his the resident container of it. It will not consider the container itself alien but then again it might consider the surrounding as alien which is why it needed to be updated.

Remember, IB takes form differently in different time. In past form its a weapon or a sacred place. So IB takes form on the need of the current need of the world.

A theory was introduced because Touma seems to have worst luck before entering academy city. A walking plague and IB helps him contain that bad luck towards him alone but its a theory if you view his past but because of the luck of proof. Its just a speculation but there are clues that he has worst luck before and others are probably affected of it. Though that's just might be people blaming him for their own bad luck but we can't tell. The point is when his in academy city. His bad luck was viewed as a normal thing and isn't make a fuss over it which is a theory that IB was given to him when he entered he city because his luck isn't effecting others anymore, unlike when he is young.

A walking disaster or pestilence god will suffice but you will need to remove IB to make it worst and its probably end of the world if that happens because the being which is being sealed will be free.

demino_hellsin · 2013-05-07, 10:26

@meister: so ytou are talking about the universe/common laws that science has already determined to be absiolute.

@tsunade: Basically your theory tells me Aleister gave Touma IB because whatever was in Touma before academy city was rampaging with only residual aura. The IB can leave Touma pending on the current need. Anyone imagine a fight between Touma and imagine breaker?

Can accelerator block an attack that does not exist in his dimension?

OverNOut · 2013-05-07, 10:31

^ What do you mean his dimension?
If you mean the 3 dimensional world, then yes. Accelerator himself stated that he could reflect attacks from teleportation which involves the 11th dimension though it will cause a weird phenomena in the 3rd dimension.

MrTerrorist · 2013-05-07, 10:35

A Certain World of Darkness Chapter 3 is out!

2013-05-06, 21:18	Link #3401
agetreme Just another Idiot Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Delusion world	Spoiler for Horror?: Then he transformed. A single slit appear in front of his forehead as if somebody drew a line across it. A single cape appear out of nowhere, flowing behind him as if it have a life of it own. The problem is: there is no wind that allow it to move like that. It was then that the Annihilator realized that what felt unnatural was not the cape flowing despite of having no wind but the way the cape behave. There is no word for it other than it behaving....un-cloth-like. It was then the Annihilator realized that it was not made of cloth but Tendrils of snake like head. "Calculating all [Possibility] and [Improbability]." The abomination said in a systematic tone of voice. The Slit opened and revealed a single floating eye ball. The very moment the Eyeball looked at the Annihilator, he felt paralyzed in paranoid and fear. It felt as if thousand...no billions of eyes looking at him at the same time. There is no way he could win, he thought to himself, he turned and run. Leaving behind a shell who attempted to block the attack. As he run, he split into multiple person running in different way but all towards a single direction: away. Noticing the oddity of the event, the Annihilator stopped and look back at the "him who choose to block the attack" while the rest of "him" continue to run away. It was then, he realized something... a horrible truth that left him screaming in madness and paranoia. There is simply no escape. The cape split into multiple tendrils and stab every single one of "him" running away. "All Possibility locked down. Grand Finale." Using the Tendrils, the monstrosity catapult himself straight into the Annihilator attempting to block the attack. All the Annihilator merged into the one who is blocking the attack, the monster broke through the Annihilator's defenses with impact powerful enough to create a hole in the dimension, sending him through it. The Annihilator fell for what felt like eternity before smash into the pavement. The Annihilator lay in the carter in agony and confusion as he is back in reality but different location where he started. __________________ Ara Han

2013-05-06, 21:23	Link #3402
faiz blaster Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	Recently, people have been going around about how could Kamijou "power-up" so to say. Thus, I decided to deliver my two cents. First, I've always thought of Kamijou as someone who rejected the supernatural on a fundamental level. If you stop to analyze some general traits of the setting, it is possible to see a certain pattern in it: that is, characters will usually have powers and abilities that somewhat reflect their base natures as individuals (i.e. Kanzaki and her "martyr-complex", Accelerator and his "hedgehog syndrome", Index and her "potentially-important-but-mostly-useless" role as a heroine, etc...). Kamijou Touma is no different. As if proving that, he never took the supernatural powers or special abilities anyone possessed into consideration when evaluating them (much to Misaka Mikoto's chagrin). Thus, I think it is safe to say that he will never seek out a "power-up" by means of strong ESP or magic on his own accord. This would mostly limit him to two "paths of growth" - which I would like to call the "Sasaki Path" and the "God of Pestilence Path". Spoiler for Sasaki Path: Simply put, in this path Kamijou would abandon the pursuit of any and all supernatural powers altogether and focus himself in mastering skills and techniques that anyone can learn and use. Martial arts, real-life application of wide-ranging knowledge or even alternative uses of common items (think of MacGyver) are just a few examples that come to mind. Abilities that are not exactly "normal", but that don't fall on the supernatural category either (like his already-attained Mind's Eye) are acceptable, but should not be emphasized on. On another hand, I see no problems with him attaining such a level of mastery in these skills that he becomes capable of "miraculous feats" (which brings me to the namesake of this path - in Fate/Stay Night, Sasaki Koujirou is a swordsman that set foot on the realm magic through only sword techniques, without relying on any supernatural gifts at all). Spoiler for God of Pestilence Path: If his own wishes are an obstacle, then just give Kamijou powers that are completely independent from his will. This is sort of where we currently are with Imagine Breaker: that thing is constantly on and Kamijou has absolutely no means of controlling it - it will take effect whatever he wants it or not. In a sense, it would be like him embracing his childhood reputation - upon going down on this path, his ultimate fate would be to become an existence that would cause supernatural phenomena to occur just by being there. No magic energy refinement-based spell-casting. No AIM-producing Personal Reality. To him as God of Pestilence, his use of special powers would be something as natural as breathing. Between these two, I would personally go with the former rather than the latter. If he goes down the path of God of Pestilence, JUST MAYBE he might find a way to use his powers in a positive manner. However, it is much more likely that he will become the greatest of the evils - an enemy of the world. __________________

2013-05-06, 23:49	Link #3403
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	I'm focus on trying to figure out how to fix Touma's problem that I forgot that he is macguyver in the making and I also detest power ups. This brought up new possibilities and problem on how to handle him. Learning martial arts is fine but what kind of martial arts would be useful. A versatile one where the right hand is the finisher and hte left hand is a support or his whole body is a weapon and the surrounding environment is an extension of his body to help him in the fight. The god of pestilence is also nice. Trying to control the "bad luck" in the air. Controlling it actively and using it towards the enemy or a target to fall into "such misfortune" in different levels but I doubt he will turn evil because to Touma its just gray path. Hmm hmm.... trying to solve problems by being creative is a sign of a good writer. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2013-05-06, 23:52	Link #3404
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Given the accidents that come from training in martial arts, doing so would probably be hazardous to Touma's health, given his luck. __________________

2013-05-07, 00:19	Link #3406
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	Touma's body should be hard already with all the beaten up he endure. It might not be a body builder body but its solid. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2013-05-07, 04:51	Link #3407
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Why not give imagine breaker the ability to switch references?

2013-05-07, 05:23	Link #3409
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Imagine breaker destroys distortions by returning the world to its original state. But what is the original state? There has to be a basis, a reference right?

2013-05-07, 05:47	Link #3410
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	The reference point. There has no clue on what is the reference point of the world but for now. The views of Kamijou touma is the reference world. I'm thinking of a different form of IB. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2013-05-07, 07:02	Link #3412
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	This absolute reality that you describe is the cosmos then?

2013-05-07, 08:42	Link #3415
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Funny thought. If IB really does delete distortions and it takes a reference on a scale beyond the user's own world but instead of the whole realm of infinite universes and the like, doesn't that mean it knows all the worlds and merely removes what is not natural to that world? Like a secretary who makes sure each file is in the right compartment and sends to the shredder what doesn't belong. If this is the case, then if you move Touma from his world to another world, then wouldn't IB negate his existence? What about an alternative? That IB would move to someone else who is more suitable? In this case, how would a regular luck Touma be like? What would be unleashed with the seal of IB gone?

2013-05-07, 09:55	Link #3417
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	Actually making him move on different world would indeed put him as the distortion that needed to be corrected. His own life will be negated or erased. Which is why you need to put your power as fanfic author to work on that part As for IB harming angels. It wasn't shown that its harming them. Its erasing them because they are alien to the world. They re just being cut off from this world and since they are entirely legend or immortals on their own might. They will be alive in different realm but erased in this realm. Taking consideration that Touma's life will be erased because IB decide him as an alien being on the world and IB doesn't view things from good and evil. Everything is balance on it. Which you will be needing a good story to back that up. A a story that could be present is IB updates its database base on the current world. While Toum is still alien but since his the resident container of it. It will not consider the container itself alien but then again it might consider the surrounding as alien which is why it needed to be updated. Remember, IB takes form differently in different time. In past form its a weapon or a sacred place. So IB takes form on the need of the current need of the world. A theory was introduced because Touma seems to have worst luck before entering academy city. A walking plague and IB helps him contain that bad luck towards him alone but its a theory if you view his past but because of the luck of proof. Its just a speculation but there are clues that he has worst luck before and others are probably affected of it. Though that's just might be people blaming him for their own bad luck but we can't tell. The point is when his in academy city. His bad luck was viewed as a normal thing and isn't make a fuss over it which is a theory that IB was given to him when he entered he city because his luck isn't effecting others anymore, unlike when he is young. A walking disaster or pestilence god will suffice but you will need to remove IB to make it worst and its probably end of the world if that happens because the being which is being sealed will be free. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2013-05-07, 10:26	Link #3418
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	@meister: so ytou are talking about the universe/common laws that science has already determined to be absiolute. @tsunade: Basically your theory tells me Aleister gave Touma IB because whatever was in Touma before academy city was rampaging with only residual aura. The IB can leave Touma pending on the current need. Anyone imagine a fight between Touma and imagine breaker? Can accelerator block an attack that does not exist in his dimension?

2013-05-07, 10:31	Link #3419
OverNOut The Obsever Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Classified	^ What do you mean his dimension? If you mean the 3 dimensional world, then yes. Accelerator himself stated that he could reflect attacks from teleportation which involves the 11th dimension though it will cause a weird phenomena in the 3rd dimension.

2013-05-07, 10:35	Link #3420
MrTerrorist Takao Tsundere Cruiser Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Classified	A Certain World of Darkness Chapter 3 is out! __________________