[Manga] Chapter 444 Discussion

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by james0246

The implanted Amaterasu was only meant to harm Madara, it was not an ability or technique that would give or otherwise force Sasuke's sharingan to evolve. It was simply a fail-safe system that was supposed to catch Madara unaware in hopes of destroying him.

I think this is more than Pain giving his rinnegan to his clones. We don't know all the methods required to evolve the eye, and for all we know, what Itachi used may be one of those. I see it as what Itachi did forced the evolution of Sasuke's eyes.

That being said, Itachi never meant to stain Sasuke's hands with blood, and to do this, Itachi, more or less, killed himself in the fight. So, there was no way for Sasuke to have gained the MS just by killing Itachi.

So I guess that part depends on how we interpret that MS part.

Added to that, it was only by learning of the sacrifices that Itachi made for Sasuke that he was able to awaken his own MS, but Itachi never wanted Sasuke to know of the sacrifices. By disallowing Sasuke to have pleasant feelings towards his brother, Itachi was ultimately sealing off the ability to gain the MS using his death.

In the end, Itachi's plans were thrown out of whack by Madara, but even then, Itachi planned ahead for such an event by gifting Naruto with something that will help in a fight against Sasuke.

I also think that it is possible to evaluate Sasuke's MS to be different that what we had seen so far. It is the closest thing you can get to the EMS (if there is also a power upgrade that Madara forgot to mention), cause even though the transplant was not made, the power transfer did happen.

And, regarding what Itachi wanted or not, the thing is all that he hadn't wanted had happened. Sasuke learning about Itachi's life, having his own MS, joining Madara, planning to destroy Konoha, etc.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Next thing you know Naruto's gonna be a gravity child

Nah... Naruto doesnt have the sexyness of AG... can you imagine characters like Emily, Benkei or Kururu in Naruto?... that would beyond awesomeness...

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

That doesnt seem possible. It's like being good while doing evil..
Calm goes with harmony of the mind...peace...quiet...silence...
Anger goes with destruction, chaos..hatred...troubled mind..war

It's possible... it's like the whole Yin and Yang theory, where is light, there is darkness, where is peace, there is hate... to me it's quite possible.

Take Itachi... he was being "good" doing "evil" just to protect his brother and Konoha.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

I think this is more than Pain giving his rinnegan to his clones. We don't know all the methods required to evolve the eye, and for all we know, what Itachi used may be one of those. I see it as what Itachi did forced the evolution of Sasuke's eyes.

The Tenshinfuin: Amaterasu is a technique that seals a Amaterasu into a Sharingan (it can only be sealed in a Sharingan). It does not create the MS, nor does it lead to the creation of the MS.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by james0246

The Tenshinfuin: Amaterasu is a technique that seals a Amaterasu into a Sharingan (it can only be sealed in a Sharingan). It does not create the MS, nor does it lead to the creation of the MS.

How? How can an eye give birth to a technique that is only supported by the eye that creates it? Sasuke's eyes turned into MS eyes, it wasn't the regular Sharingan that was generating Amaterasu, it was the MS that was creating Amaterasu. And according to what Madara said, it wasn't only Amaterasu that was transferred, it was also others as well (we have yet to see those, but till now there is no indication to invalidate that, right? even though the name only suggests one.).

[james0246]

I'm gong to stop now before Hunter deletes our posts, and simply say go to the Byukugan vs. Sharingan thread, or any of the other Sharingan threads, where all of this discussion has already taken place. Feel free to post your comments (etc) there.

[Sazelyt]

Are there still people posting to that thread? It has fulfilled its role years ago.

[Cub-Sama]

The heated debates in this thread has died down and now it is all in the Bleach manga thread

[Shay]

I seem to be missing something. Can someone please explain to me what Pain's/Nagato's eye technique actually is?

I don'y know what it is but I just don't seem to be following this correctly. I recall Jiraiya saying something like he has the most powerfull eyes or something but what exactly is it?

I'm lost...

[Tyrone Biggums]

BEHOLD!

Sage + Kyubi = Sayubi Eyes

Which will defeat the Uchiha!

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Shay

I seem to be missing something. Can someone please explain to me what Pain's/Nagato's eye technique actually is?

I don'y know what it is but I just don't seem to be following this correctly. I recall Jiraiya saying something like he has the most powerfull eyes or something but what exactly is it?

I'm lost...

Everybody here is lost, the description that Jiraiya and Fukasaku did for the Rinnegan didn't fulfilled our expectations based on Naruto vs. Pain fight.

Yes, we saw crazy and powerful things, but at least me, i was expecting something different from the Rinnegan, because was named as the strongest doujutsu and used by the man who create Ninjas.

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

The heated debates in this thread has died down and now it is all in the Bleach manga thread

Is something to debate in Bleach?... the name of the next chapter perhaps...

[kk2extreme]

hey this is triple death chapter if you know kanji for chapter no.

[Justin Kim]

Originally Posted by Hunter

And he gave then something to Naruto if this situation was to occur which considering this kind of story will most probably work this time.
On the other hand you're right about the fact that he left things unfinished, like Jiraiya or Minato Itachi is one out of the many powerful ninja who couldn't deal with the root of the problem and died trusting Naruto would find a way.

Well this is only the first part, his second great pain will be explained next week, though we already know that it will be about Yahiko's death.


Hatred is systematic to their way of living, Madara didn't invent ninja killing each others nor does he control their every actions so he cannot be directly the responsible for everything though I have no doubt we will find out he pulled many strings over the years to make things worse.
That said he is pretty much the living incarnation of the problem.

In fact now that I think about it many Akatsuki seems to be living incarnations of "ninja sins".
Hidan represented kill for the sake of killing, Kakuzu was the kill for money, Deidara loved the fleeting moments of destruction, Sasori was about killing his emotions and human side, Orochimaru is the will to live forever, Itachi was killing for duty, Nagato is the will to inflict pain upon others and Sasuke is well on his way to be revenge and hatred.
Madara represents the ninja system itself, a never ending strife pushing people to their worst.

Ah ok, thank you for that informative post. I wasn't aware that he had more past-time experiences that related to his final resolve in destroying the village of Konoha and making peace his own way.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Oh yes, God forbid we take a little break from the action and actually work on the story which could involve some important vital plot elements and create tension and meaningful relations among the characters.

No that's fine. The Way Naruto does it is the right way, Have the heavy action and then flashback developments. People claiming that it is going the One Piece route is just plan wrong and it would be a bad thing if Naruto did that. That is my point.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

No that's fine. The Way Naruto does it is the right way, Have the heavy action and then flashback developments. People claiming that it is going the One Piece route is just plan wrong and it would be a bad thing if Naruto did that. That is my point.

Ah I see. Because Naruto and One Piece are two different stories, and thus require different story-telling structures. I certainly hope that's what you mean.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Ah I see. Because Naruto and One Piece are two different stories, and thus require different story-telling structures. I certainly hope that's what you mean.

Yep.....It's just that Naruto has been kicking One Piece's cheeks all year long so far....

[james0246]

^And One Piece was kicking Naruto's ass most of all of last year...so let's just leave it at that and drop the One Piece (and or Bleach) discussion, especially if it is only to slam the other series.

That being said, the spine for this week's volume is of Kakashi...don't know what that has to do with anything, just felt like spreading the news...

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Yep.....It's just that Naruto has been kicking One Piece's cheeks all year long so far....

Well...if that's what you think, you're more than entitled to it. Lets just see how they do for the remaining 8 months.

ETA: Yeah, like james said. Probably not a good idea to turn this into a bashing war.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

Ah ok, thank you for that informative post. I wasn't aware that he had more past-time experiences that related to his final resolve in destroying the village of Konoha and making peace his own way.

I am assuming you are referring to Nagato.

When Jiraiya found them, and after the training left them behind, Nagato was in a much better state, though he was still having problems in controlling his power. But, he should have been mostly over his family getting killed by that time. Actually if you think about it, Nagato, with Jiraiya there, was pretty much like Sasuke when he was with Naruto and the others. Even though they were both carrying a painful experience within themselves, those were close to getting sealed because of their environment and the people around them. But, after that, the things that have happened afterward made those early painful experiences resurfaced. In Sasuke's case, it was Orochimaru that pulled the trigger (though I am guessing maybe Madara has also some part in that). And, for Pain, it is obvious that Madara has some part in his psychological development, at the least he must have appeared in front of them like he appeared in front of Sasuke, and somehow pulled the trigger to turn him into the mad figure we are currently seeing.

I don't know how much Yahiko's death affected that decision (as a finalizing one). But, it is possible that Yahiko's death pushed him near the cliff so that Madara could have easily taken over to finish the push.

Originally Posted by Shay

I don'y know what it is but I just don't seem to be following this correctly. I recall Jiraiya saying something like he has the most powerfull eyes or something but what exactly is it?

Other than controlling multiple death bodies at once, as if each are his own. Or controlling the minds of creatures after transferring his chakra into them, and possibly with the power of his eyes. But, at the end, I also wonder, what makes these eyes more special than Sharingan. The techniques we had seen are still not comparable to the unlimited versions of MS, and the techniques that come with them. Hopefully, before Nagato dies, we will be given the chance to learn the reason.

[Fran~]

I will not enter in a OP vs. Naruto's analysis because that would be to risky

But, just a side note, the whole "Konoha's Battle between Naruto and Pain" is just epic and the best damn thing in Shippuuden, since Sand Invasion that i dont have this feeling every week waiting for the next chapter.

Naruto, finally, is being the young man that i waited from the very beginning of Shippuuden, respected for the adults, loving for his friends and capable to defend Konoha (yes, there were sacrifices and destruction, but Konoha is there... and the 6 pain's bodies were destroyed).

[9TailsOfDestruction]

Originally Posted by james0246

Without transplanting the eyes, the MS only leads to blindness, so I doubt Itachi wanted Sasuke to gain the MS. Itachi wanting Sasuke to actually kill him is also debatable considering that Itachi staged the fight so that he would succumb to exhaustion and not Sasuke 'blade'. Rather, Itachi wished for Sasuke to simply live on his life thinking that he had defeated the "big bad" that had destroyed his family, without knowing of Itachi's sacrifice or the family's secret shame.

I stay away from posting alot because to be honest I like reading everyone else's comments more than I do replying to people. But James even though I disagree with you with alot of stuff you post I agree with you 99% on this one. Itachi didn't want Sasuke to know the whole truth behind his ambitions, in order to protect him. I think the finger poke Itachi gave Sasuke was enough for Sasuke to know Itachi wasn't the person who he loved to hate. Even though Itachi's death seemed like it was by the hands of exhaustion it really wasn't. Itachi purposely ran out of chakra so his younger bro would gain the resolve and confidence that he could win and prosper against any opponent he puts his mind to. He's an Uchiha the last of them. He trusted Sasuke above his whole clan and family to change things. Just like Jiraiya and Minato entrusting Naruto to find the ultimate answer and make peace amongst everyone. The problem is Madara is enterfering with Jiraiya, Minato, and Itachi's plans. That is why he's the ultimate villain in the series! He has to go down and I think Naruto and Sasuke after they fight again, are going to combine forces and defeat Madara!!!!!! ^_^