Macross Frontier Character Discussion - Sheryl Nome

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Actually when you listen to the actual drama cd Grace sounds surprised and awkward to hear young Sheryl ask that of her.

I am sure that it surprised Grace and, yeah, she developed feelings for Sheryl which she had to forcibly erase later on. But on the meta-level, she still was infecting Sheryl with an incurable disease and even Sheryl getting closer to her did not stop her from continueing her program of "Fairy 9". That is what is upsetting to me.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I am sure that it surprised Grace and, yeah, she developed feelings for Sheryl which she had to forcibly erase later on. But on the meta-level, she still was infecting Sheryl with an incurable disease and even Sheryl getting closer to her did not stop her from continueing her program of "Fairy 9". That is what is upsetting to me.

But hey it also makes her an interesting character, and an effective villain.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

But hey it also makes her an interesting character, and an effective villain.

Sure it does. I wasn't putting her status as both in question, I was just saying that it creeped me the hell out. Which is good for both her characterization and her effectiveness as a villain.

[moncikoma]

if i am as rich as steve jobs...

i would buy the macross franchise from kawamori...and make a 2nd season called MF2 [macross frontier fufumofu]
continued with a 3rd season that concludes the story in a different way than the 2nd movie + mix it together with macross the RIDE

as for the manga...i will ask JUMP to make a serialization and ask akira toriyama or eichiro oda as the cahara design... LOL

as for the game, i will ask ATLUS to make a spin off on PS3 dating SIM like the one in persona... working title : "macrossona2059"

as for the merchandise, it is going to be endless...just like rei ayanami figure...LOL


i bet the fans will rejoice!

hell yeah kawamori and yoshino agrees with me...!

[darkplataform]

This thread seems appropriate

「私が最も見たいシェリル本にしたかった」シェリル・ノーム緊急独占インタビュー到着！
先日発売された「銀河の妖精」ことシェリル・ノームの公式アーティストブック第2弾。
今話題となって売り切れ続出の「VISUAL COLLECTION SHERYL NOME FINAL」について
超時空的に多忙なシェリルが、急きょ独占インタビューに応えてくれた！

本のタイトルにある「FINAL」の文字に込められた意味とは？！

詳細はこちら！
http://www.macrossf.com/interview.html

Don't know if this is in the book, but pls, Translate!

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by darkplataform

This thread seems appropriate



Don't know if this is in the book, but pls, Translate!

Its a review for the artbook.

[Darthtabby]

I've got an issue that's been bothering me a bit lately regarding Sheryl's portrayal in the first episode. The issue may be linked to issues in writing and translation.

To start off with: I generally think that Sheryl is a genuinely nice person at heart, even during the early parts of the series. There are a lot of things that support this -her kindness to Ranka, her concern for Galaxy, even her apologizing to Alto for being forgetful in Episode 6. Meanwhile there are almost no scenes that I feel provide solid evidence of a truly nasty personality. She should probably have been nicer to Cathy during Episode 2 for instance, but her actions then are understandable given that she's upset about a missing family heirloom. I'm not about to consider her a genuinely nasty person because she got upset about something like that.

The reason I say I feel almost no scenes provide evidence of a genuinely nasty personality is because there is one scene that does, namely the infamous confrontation with Cathy in Episode 1. Sheryl's behaviour in that scene seems inconsistent with her portrayal in pretty much every other scene she's in, and it bothers me because of that. I feel like maybe the writer pulled a cheap trick on the audience -that maybe he wanted them to jump to the wrong conclusion about Sheryl and made her act out of character in order to make sure they did. It's fine if a scene is written in a misleading way, but it shouldn't rely on a character acting out of character in order to mislead the audience.

I also wonder whether a translation issue could be at play here -I noticed some significant differences between the Thora and Central Anime subs for that particular scene.

So what do people think? Am I misinterpreting things somehow? Did the writer pull a cheap trick by having a character act out of character in order to give us the wrong impression? Or is a translation issue at fault here?

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

So what do people think? Am I misinterpreting things somehow? Did the writer pull a cheap trick by having a character act out of character in order to give us the wrong impression? Or is a translation issue at fault here?

Can it be none of the above? Look at it this way: she's just arrived at Frontier, it's established that she doesn't feel well, she has no attachment to or interest in the place and its people yet... why is being a little snappish so out-of-character?

[Lancel]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

So what do people think? Am I misinterpreting things somehow? Did the writer pull a cheap trick by having a character act out of character in order to give us the wrong impression? Or is a translation issue at fault here?

I say she was just having a bad day (which got worse). She was feeling unwell to start with, got on Frontier and probably spent just about every moment from crossing the airlock to the concert in interviews or in front of cameras or going places FOR interviews and has to give a concert to top it all off. I more so think she snapped because she expected a professional stunt pilot group, not high school kids, and probably expected Frontier was either being cheap on her show or were plugging their academy on her show, that's some premiere advertising space. Sheryl takes her job very seriously, and everything must be top notch, and she was likely quite annoyed that she wasn't briefed on who would be doing the stunts, though this is implied to partially be her fault as she didn't ask.

And as I so enjoy pointing out to people, a bunch of fly boys running around could also construe a safety hazard for herself and her fans if they weren't up to the task, I mean one of them might knock her off the stage and nearly send her plummeting to her death- oh wait!

And now I'll play devil's advocate by offering this theory: She's a teenaged woman, why do you think she's in a bad mood~?

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Can it be none of the above? Look at it this way: she's just arrived at Frontier, it's established that she doesn't feel well, she has no attachment to or interest in the place and its people yet... why is being a little snappish so out-of-character?

It's not being snappish that's out of character... its perfectly in character for her to chew out someone she feels isn't doing their job properly. She takes her performances seriously and she expects the people she works with to take them seriously as well. But the impression I got from one version of the subs was kind of along the lines of "You hired amateurs for one of my live performances?" It came across as if she took offense at the very idea that she could be expected to work with such lowly people. And while Sheryl obviously has a high opinion of herself, she usually doesn't act like other people are completely beneath her like that. The way she ends the conversation doesn't help matters.

That's the part that seems inconsistent with the rest of her portrayal to me. She is somewhat arrogant, but not to the point where she feels she's somehow innately superior to everyone else. Admittedly it's just one scene, but it's also one scene in the very first episode, so it has some significance.

Edit: Response to Lancel's post.

Originally Posted by Lancel

I say she was just having a bad day (which got worse). She was feeling unwell to start with, got on Frontier and probably spent just about every moment from crossing the airlock to the concert in interviews or in front of cameras or going places FOR interviews and has to give a concert to top it all off. I more so think she snapped because she expected a professional stunt pilot group, not high school kids, and probably expected Frontier was either being cheap on her show or were plugging their academy on her show, that's some premiere advertising space. Sheryl takes her job very seriously, and everything must be top notch, and she was likely quite annoyed that she wasn't briefed on who would be doing the stunts, though this is implied to partially be her fault as she didn't ask.

And as I so enjoy pointing out to people, a bunch of fly boys running around could also construe a safety hazard for herself and her fans if they weren't up to the task, I mean one of them might knock her off the stage and nearly send her plummeting to her death- oh wait!

And now I'll play devil's advocate by offering this theory: She's a teenaged woman, why do you think she's in a bad mood~?

Well I guess the Central Anime version could have her being concerned about safety given what the subs there say (she complains about amateurs participating rather than being hired, for instance) though the scene didn't really give me the impression that was the main thrust of her argument.

I'm not totally sure if I buy them at this point but the "being cheap" or "using her show as advertising" bits do seem to make some sense. Something obviously rubbed her the wrong way for her to react the way she did.

Gyah, my thoughts are getting muddled...

[Swampstorm]

You'll have to keep in mind that if Sheryl is giving a performance, she has an obligation to her fans to ensure that they get the best possible experience. That's also why we also get scenes of her overseeing every detail of her concerts later on, in episode 6.

It's convenient enough for Frontier to hire amateur pilots; after all, it's not really Kathy's problem if the performance turns out poorly. It's a bit like hiring a decorator for a big celebration only to find out that they bought everything from a dollar store. And in all fairness, Sheryl's judgement was spot-on; Alto caused an accident that nearly killed her and could potentially have injured people in the audience as well. It's difficult to complain about Sheryl's choice of pleasantries when the fears that she expressed were ultimately borne out. If you're the one holding the reins of responsibility on someone else's behalf, then I think you reserve the right to be critical of their decisons.

[wisteria233]

@Darthtabby well one way one way to look at it is in another scene she also takes out one of their stunts citing the fact that they are amateurs in her reasoning (she ended up being right anyway, so there you go).

Though for the record Grace does establish the fact that Sheryl is in fact tired and is having a bad day before she even arrives to the concert hall, so Yot-chan is right.

[Darthtabby]

See while I can acknowledge that there was good reason for her to have safety concerns, I didn't get the impression that safety concerns were what she was complaining about in that scene. Though that could be a translation issue. The subtitles in the Central Anime version do seem more consistent with the idea that she has safety concerns than the subtitles in the Thora version of the episode, though neither one really seems to have her directly state that safety concerns are what's bothering her in that scene.

I guess it's not really that big a deal if she acts in an unjustifiably nasty fashion for one scene (since she generally seems to be nice) but it kind of bugs me that her portrayal in that scene seems inconsistent with her portrayal in other scenes. Especially since the scene has extra significance due to it being one of the first ones Sheryl is in. I want to make sure I've got a solid understanding of it because it feels like a big gap in my understanding of the character.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

The reason I say I feel almost no scenes provide evidence of a genuinely nasty personality is because there is one scene that does, namely the infamous confrontation with Cathy in Episode 1. Sheryl's behaviour in that scene seems inconsistent with her portrayal in pretty much every other scene she's in, and it bothers me because of that. I feel like maybe the writer pulled a cheap trick on the audience -that maybe he wanted them to jump to the wrong conclusion about Sheryl and made her act out of character in order to make sure they did. It's fine if a scene is written in a misleading way, but it shouldn't rely on a character acting out of character in order to mislead the audience.

Wasn't Sheryl suffering of fatigue and jet lag in the first episode? She was a perfect sweetie in the flight then Grace said she was enduring this after the landing. Among the symptoms it could include:

- Headaches
- Fatigue, irregular sleep patterns, insomnia
- Disorientation, grogginess, irritability
- Mild depression
- Constipation or diarrhea

I'll say Sheryl was a perfect angel for enduring the interviews, the concert and the stress of the attack all and being only slightly bitchy if she was suffering from a jet lag. When I suffered jet lag, I was insufferable (and I didn't have the strength to do anything but bury myself under blankets) and I didn't travel across space like she did.

[Swampstorm]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

See while I can acknowledge that there was good reason for her to have safety concerns, I didn't get the impression that safety concerns were what she was complaining about in that scene. Though that could be a translation issue. The subtitles in the Central Anime version do seem more consistent with the idea that she has safety concerns than the subtitles in the Thora version of the episode, though neither one really seems to have her directly state that safety concerns are what's bothering her in that scene.

It doesn't even need to be a safety concern. If you were creating a dance troupe, you'd want to hold auditions and pick out the best dancers that you could afford to hire. If you were running a play, you'd want to hold auditions and pick out the best actors. Sheryl isn't just responsible for performing in her own show; she has a stake in producing it as well.

Cathy doesn't have a stake in the success of Sheryl's show, so any mistakes that she makes in this regard have no real personal consequences - it's not her problem if the show doesn't do as well. As such, I feel that Cathy needed that rebuke, even if it had to come from a woman who is her junior (albeit still her superior, in this circumstance). It was Cathy's choice to take it personally.

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

I guess it's not really that big a deal if she acts in an unjustifiably nasty fashion for one scene (since she generally seems to be nice) but it kind of bugs me that her portrayal in that scene seems inconsistent with her portrayal in other scenes. Especially since the scene has extra significance due to it being one of the first ones Sheryl is in. I want to make sure I've got a solid understanding of it because it feels like a big gap in my understanding of the character.

I think the operative word is "unjustifiably". It really comes down to whether you personally feel that Sheryl should have ignored Cathy's mistake, or called her out on it.

Remember that characters aren't portrayed as "nice" or "nasty", but rather interpreted that way, on a moment to moment basis. It's difficult to find any 'real' person who acts in complete concordance or discordance with your personal views (unless you're planning on using splitting as your primary defense mechanism, of course).

[Darthtabby]

I would like to believe the best about Sheryl with regards to this scene, but I have trouble shaking the impression that she's acting (if you'll excuse the language) like a bitchy prima donna. I realise there are things she has legitimate reasons to be upset but the subtitles often makes it seem like she's complaining about other things that she isn't so justified in complaining about.

I suspect this may be due to the translation choices some fansubbers made, but I'm not about to just assume that that's the case. I like to have solid grounds for my opinions. I have trouble convincing myself if all I've got to go on is my own wishful thinking.

As for why I'm so wrapped up in this one scene... it goes against the general impression I have of Sheryl's character. And because of that it feels like it represents a gap in my understanding of her. Since she's one of my favorite characters, I dislike feeling like I have this glaring gap in my understanding of her.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

I would like to believe the best about Sheryl with regards to this scene, but I have trouble shaking the impression that she's acting (if you'll excuse the language) like a bitchy prima donna. I realise there are things she has legitimate reasons to be upset but the subtitles often makes it seem like she's complaining about other things that she isn't so justified in complaining about.

I suspect this may be due to the translation choices some fansubbers made, but I'm not about to just assume that that's the case. I like to have solid grounds for my opinions. I have trouble convincing myself if all I've got to go on is my own wishful thinking.

As for why I'm so wrapped up in this one scene... it goes against the general impression I have of Sheryl's character. And because of that it feels like it represents a gap in my understanding of her. Since she's one of my favorite characters, I dislike feeling like I have this glaring gap in my understanding of her.

Again, is Sheryl not allowed to have a bad day?

[Darthtabby]

It's not the fact that she's irritable that bothers me. It's the fact that she comes across as if she's really full of herself in that scene (at least in certain fansubs). Sheryl may have a high opinion of herself, but she normally doesn't seem full of it like that (in fact she often comes across as being remarkably down to earth for someone in her position).

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

It's not the fact that she's irritable that bothers me. It's the fact that she comes across as if she's really full of herself in that scene (at least in certain fansubs). Sheryl may have a high opinion of herself, but she normally doesn't seem full of it like that (in fact she often comes across as being remarkably down to earth for someone in her position).

She's feeling like crap (see jet lag), endured an interview and as soon as she arrived to the concert hall spotted amateurish mistakes all over the place. Of course that, to people who don't know she's having a bad day, she'll come across as entitled but I gotta agree. Cathy's lack of professionalism who she hired put at risk her life, her performance and the audience safety. Then once again, she was proved right about Alto's unnecessary heroics. She might not have been as pleasant as usual (see how she felt, she got gutsier to deal with her weaker health as the story progressed), but she wasn't on the wrong: she was being a pro. More pushy than she usually is, naturally, but there IS a good reason of why she's behaving that way.

One Alto or Cathy don't know because Sheryl's a stranger to them.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

It's not the fact that she's irritable that bothers me. It's the fact that she comes across as if she's really full of herself in that scene (at least in certain fansubs). Sheryl may have a high opinion of herself, but she normally doesn't seem full of it like that (in fact she often comes across as being remarkably down to earth for someone in her position).

I know, but she may be acting full of herself because she's having a bad day.