2012-02-06, 17:59 | Link #81 |
reading #hikaributts
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You do know that some animes like penguin drum stand no chance at all with the mashing of categories?
By reducing the actual genres, you are creating very vague categories with very polarizing results. {A1} Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi In this category I have no idea if i should vote for madoka because it's fantasy or Steins;Gate because it's sci fi. Comparing those different genres is like comparing fruit with dairy products. Also if there is dislike for the amount of categories, why is there a distinction between best story for adaptions or orginal works. Best story alone is more than sufficient. It looks even more redundant than all those seperated categories to me. |
2012-02-06, 18:11 | Link #83 | |
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My own view is that genres, and how they are used, is ever-evolving in anime. Awards like this one probably need to similarly evolve regularly to keep up with that. Like I argued before in this thread, the days of Tolkien-style Fantasy is pretty much over in anime. It was a prominent anime genre in the 90s (especially the mid-90s), but not so much any more. This is the side-effect of the incredible modern domination of Japan/High School settings. Almost every modern anime has either Japan, or a high school, or both, as a primary or reoccurring setting. So having a category just for "Fantasy" is perhaps questionable given what the term tends to make a lot of people think of. Pure sci-fi isn't that common either. Steins;Gate is the exception, and not the rule, there. Looking at the current genre categories, it honestly makes me think that it was wrote up for 90s anime. It would have fit perfectly back then. Not so much now though.
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2012-02-06, 18:23 | Link #84 | ||||
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Steins;Gate had no fantasy elements in it. Madoka strictly did not have sci-fi in it, because time traveling is not a theme soley for sci-fi, but for other genres like fantasy as well. Those action scenes in steins;gate were hardly worth mentioning. Quote:
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The current genre distinction seems to the the general most used genres. Regardless if movies have changed over the several decade, you can still easily distinguish if it's sci-fi, horror, thriller, action, romance or a comedy. I still think it's the same for animes, because the movie industry has in my opinion made bigger changes in the last century than the anime industry. Last edited by hyl; 2012-02-06 at 18:44. |
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2012-02-06, 18:24 | Link #85 |
Yuri µ'serator
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Age: 36
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I am happy and disappoint with results , I am glad Madoka got what it did, though I would have liked Homura to beat Kurisu(while I like Kurisu, Homura is one of my favorite characters ever), though I suppose I can settle with Kyouko winning supporting. (I am in favor of keeping supporting characters, not removing it).
And as much I enjoyed Carnival Phantasm, I don't think putting Movie and OVAs together was the best idea still, nor did I want to see it beat Colorful or Redline. Also Mawaru Penguindrum I was hoping would at least win Drama/Tragedy, but I underestimated AnoHana's popularity it seems, so bit sad to see it win nothing. I am fine with most of the things winning except: <rant> I have to utterly disagree, I would rank at least 10 other shows with a large element comedy as more funny than Nichijou overall in the past year... Spoiler for some examples:
Nichijou simply won from the split vote caused by the tie in nomination round because there were so many good choices this year for comedy. And my negative opinion of the series is because of how dull a chain of middle episodes became before it became funny again, and far too many of the jokes were hit or miss compared to other series.</rant>
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2012-02-06, 18:29 | Link #86 |
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Well you can combine horror/sci-fi/fantasy for the best supernatural serie, but you will displease lot's of fans that wanted to vote for the other 2 genres.
edit: comedy was not weak this year as Konokaga has easily given some good examples (i don't agree with all of them , but with most of them). Sports and romance were quite weak this year though Last edited by hyl; 2012-02-06 at 18:41. |
2012-02-06, 18:47 | Link #87 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
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It's not creating vagueness to have fewer, unique (Can't be nominated in more than one {Ai} ) categories personally. It actually gives them more meaning and weight, and stream lines the process. It'll actually reveal to us what the AS community thinks the genre a show like Madoka fits in the best. To me there is not much difference between sci-fi and fantasy (In some cases the border between them becomes indistinguishable), and USUALLY action shows pass over in the surreal anyways (scifi and fantasy). Typically when they are not about the surreal, they're in a genre with more prominent elements, particularly tragic and dramatic ones. Also I don't particularly see the need to branch off slice of life from drama. Most slice of life series people typically think of like K-ON! would probably fit more into moe anyways. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To me the general attitude around here is along the lines of disappointment that XYZ could not win because they feel the categories are too general and want to break it off into more specific categories (Where the process starts to become vague and frustrating since it's hard to define these things in the first place), in the hopes that their favorite shows are able to pick up some kind of award. We have to realize that not everything is going to get an award. It's just a sense of entitlement, and I don't think that approach is going to be helpful for making these awards more clearly defined and easily approachable.
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Last edited by Reckoner; 2012-02-06 at 19:07. |
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2012-02-06, 19:04 | Link #88 | |
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I still really have to question the need for a 2 stage voting process and what benefit it's supposed to offer. To me the most democractic vote is the one where you just get to actually vote for your favorite show in a given category if it's eligible. It's all inclusive and doesn't force a poster to give a vote to a show simply because the show they actually wanted to vote for didn't get enough votes in the nomination phase to make it to the second stage. To me it's a hollow choice if it's not really the one you think deserves the nod and all you're really doing by narrowing the choices down is ensuring that only the most popular choices of the year have any chance at any sort of recognition around these parts and that people that haven't seen those hit shows are guaranteed to be left out of the loop during the 2nd stage of the voting process and that if they haven't seen or support the popular shows then they just plain don't matter. Granted the most popular shows are still the most likely to get the nod in an all inclusive FPTP one stage style vote, but at least your eliminating some redudancy from the process and ensuring that people will always get to vote for the show they think deserves to win a given category and that that vote will count at least somewhat in the long run. |
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2012-02-06, 19:54 | Link #89 |
Somehow I found out
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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To me, the way in which the genre ({A}) categories are divided isn't as important as the stipulation that each series should only be nominated for one genre category. Ideally this rule would mean that the voting community would be forced to come to terms with the ambiguities of a given title's genre and quickly make a decision about which category that title has a best chance of being nominated in and/or winning.
The genres themselves can probably be debated forever, but I think that if there's enough pressure on the organizers to limit the number of genre categories to a reasonable number, like 5 or 6, that Haak and coworkers will probably make a good enough decision about how they should be divvied up. The biggest problem with the genre categories in their current form is the ambiguity. I think it's important that the community be empowered to decide which category is best for which title, and I'd like it to remain that that decision happens during the nomination stage. But the rule each title can only be nominated for one genre category will hopefully help force the community to overcome that ambiguity and be decisive in their categorization. Edit: Also this is the post where I proposed this idea.
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Last edited by Sorrow-K; 2012-02-06 at 19:56. Reason: Shameless self promotion. |
2012-02-06, 20:20 | Link #90 | |
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2012-02-06, 21:44 | Link #91 |
Cross Game - I need more
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Well, I will say that we did have a thread in November with a poll to see what people wanted. Despite the constant complaints that we have too many categories, the majority seemed to prefer increasing the categories.
We're certainly going to be discussing the genre categories. felix has some really interesting ideas... if any of us can figure out how to make them work. As for limiting genre nominations that's certainly going to be something we'll discuss. Although I do want to ask, considering that Madoka managed to win only 2 genre categories and no other show won more than one- is it really as big a problem as people keep saying? Just asking because I checked the past awards and the most genre awards ever won by a show was 3- Sports/Romance/Drama. Won last year by Cross Game (a 52 episode show allows you to cover a lot of ground). And that was the only year any show won more than two genre awards. One other idea to bring up that is smaller, but I think might be a good idea. Perhaps we should deprioritize the genre categories by not listing them first? I mean Best Show should really be our first question shouldn't it? I actually think it might effect nominations and voting behavior. Anyway, other topics brought up... Oh yeah, nominations. The problem with nominations is that bluntly people are lazy and don't want to vote in a nomination free for all where they can vote for any show. They prefer to wait until there are fewer shows to pick from to pick the winner. So not having a nomination period means significantly less voters- as in 50% less. Additionally, the results are quite different. Here are the nomination results. I count no less then 9 categories then had results different then in the nominations. So basically we've gone with a two stage format to whittle the choices down to gain a greater participation rate. The nominations tell us what the most dedicated and passionate viewers think. The voting stage tells us what the more broad community feels. Might I point out that all of you were free to participate in the nominations. It's not like it's harder to vote in the nominations then it would be to vote in a one stage free for all. If you don't like the nominations, then please get more people to participate in them. And least you think I'm saying no to changing, I'm not. I'm just pointing out the reasons we're doing it as a two stage system right now. If there really is a large desire to go to a one stage system we'll certainly discuss it. It's been brought up before. I will say that if we do try to limit shows to one or two genre I'm not sure how we can do that without a nomination phase. I think I speak for all the people helping organize in saying that we really are not excited about the idea of us trying to decide which genre a show is eligible for- especially not for every show aired during the year. Overall I'd like to add that all of us really do pay a lot of attention to the ideas and desires expressed about how to improve the Awards. We want to reflect the desires of the community. Unfortunately the community often seems to be pulling in different directions. So if you don't like what we're doing feel free to let us know, and explain why. We actually have a list this year of suggestions to discuss for next year, and I've tried to get all of the items discussed in the various Award threads on it.
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Last edited by Sackett; 2012-02-06 at 22:11. |
2012-02-06, 22:02 | Link #92 | |
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Personally I don't have a problem with that method, or perhaps a method where a list of nominees in each category is proposed, then opened to discussion for a week or two, then a final list is determined.
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2012-02-07, 03:29 | Link #93 | |
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On a complete side-note, I think it's a damn travesty that Redline didn't win as much as a single category. #1 overlooked anime of the year, in my opinion. I don't think very many people even watched it, given what the voting was.
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2012-02-07, 05:29 | Link #94 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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These are my thoughts on some of the issues raised thus far. Just so everyone is clear these are personal opinions and are not official representative positions of the contest organisers (There's no such thing yet)
Fate/Zero Split Cour Spoiler for space:
Movies and OVAs Spoiler for space:
Sports and Hobbies Spoiler for space:
Fanservice and Moe Spoiler for space:
Genre categories Spoiler for space:
Category Minimalism Spoiler for space:
Miscellaneous Spoiler for space:
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2012-02-07, 08:41 | Link #95 |
Cross Game - I need more
Join Date: Apr 2009
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I'd like to say that I too find the nominations useful. It told me I needed to take a second look at Steins;Gate, and alerted me to Redline which I hadn't heard of before. Plus, how will Sorrow-kun write his AnimeSuki Choice Awards preview without it?
On the categories, I'd probably like something like this: Best Of: -{A1}- [TV series] -{A2}- [Movie] -{A3}- [OVA/Shorts] -{A4}- [Original Story] General Attributes (all shows across all genre are eligible): -{B1}- [Visuals/Animation/Art] -{B2}- [Opening/Ending Song] -{B3}- [Soundtrack] -{B4}- [Storyline/Plot] -{B5}- [Setting/World Building] -{B6}- [Fanservice] (Personally I'd rather cut this entirely, but since there does seem to be demand for it I think it's better as a general question rather then a genre category) Character Questions: -{C1}- [Female Lead Character] -{C2}- [Male Lead Character] -{C3}- [Female Supporting Character] -{C4}- [Male Supporting Character] -{C5}- [Antagonist] -{C6}- [Couple] (let the shippers go crazy) Genre: -{D1}- [Action/Adventure] -{D2}- [Comedy] -{D3}- [Drama/Tragedy] -{D4}- [Mystery] -{D5}- [Romance] -{D6}- [Fantasy] -{D7}- [Science-Fiction] -{D8}- [Slice of Life] -{D9}- [Horror] (I'm currently on the fence about splitting Horror and Mystery, but it seems like last year the category was hurt by being combined. Maybe this one should be split or combined depending on the number of shows in the respective categories that year.) I cut Sports entirely. Unfortunately there just aren't enough shows anymore, and I think it's better to cut it then try and mash it up with a bunch of other genre that don't really fit together all that well.
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2012-02-07, 09:09 | Link #96 | |
Me, An Intellectual
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Quite a lot of raeg in those comments... But there clearly are some legitimate concerns there too.
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2012-02-07, 09:25 | Link #97 | |
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About -{A4}- [Original Story] Does it mean the most innovative/creative story or simple means "not an adaption"? |
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2012-02-07, 09:50 | Link #99 |
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It's not always the case, take Steins' Gate and Madoka as an example. The timetraveling idea for fiction is pretty much old and hardly innovative (H.G. Wells, 1895 and possibly older if we look at folklores) and the idea of saving someone from a tragedic death is as ancient as the stories of the ancient greek (and also possibly older).
However the execution of this not very innovatve idea, either breaks or succeeds a story. Which in this case, both stories succeeded |
2012-02-07, 10:11 | Link #100 |
Cross Game - I need more
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Well the interest in having that category was to recognize Anime Originals.
So it means "Not an Adaptation"
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