[Anime-only] Naruto Shippuden Episode 206 Discussion

[monir]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Whatever happened to that patched old ruin? The story's kinda splitting up right now, there's Naruto&co, the alliance dudes, Hachibi&Kisame (and Enka mastah), Danzou running away, Sasuke in the interdimensional rift, team Taka...forgot about what happened to them too.

In that context there is indeed a lot going on and yet it doesn't feel so disjointed or overwhelming. Things are pretty organized so far even though this episode had three different events taking place simultaneously.

Yeah that pencil bullet was pretty neat. Killerbee still might be over his head this time around considering the massive depot of chakra won't be enough to overwhelm an opponent who thrives at nullifying the chakra flow.

Originally Posted by Fran

Let's see... Naruto understands that he is in a position where is no longer a kid, so to him, the Sasuke thing is even more than a promise to Sakura. Yes, it can be an obsession, granted, but furthermore, there is his conversation with Jiraiya and Yondaime about he hatred.

Very well put. Let's not also forget about Pain either who cemented his new found belief. Jiraiya is instrumental to Naruto's mental maturation, but it's Jiraiya's disciple, the Pain, who brought down the burden of understanding Naruto now shoulders. He still needs to realize that shouldering such burden all by himself isn't possible. He will have to allow others to carry the burden also. To me that was the whole point of Sakura's confession.

P.S. The manga chapter 469 thread was interesting...! The manga chapter 437 was even better!

['Pryde]

lee, kiba, and sai have fallen so low... takeing orders from sakura....

and of course kisame was awsome in this ep

[neshru]

Originally Posted by 'Pryde

lee, kiba, and sai have fallen so low... takeing orders from sakura....

Sakura volunteered to "break the news to Naruto" after the others had all agreed to kill Sasuke. Of course she needed a team to get out of the village and actually find him.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by monir

As for the episode, haha.... the "legendary confession" was not what I expected. Now I'm very curious to read through the discussion of that corresponding manga chapter just to see what prompted the massive amount of discussion on this subject of Sakura's confession.

There wasn't much about it (well something like eight hundreds posts but I try to forget about it!), the thread you are reffering to, I think, was about Hinata's confession and her subsequent "death" with Konoha's destruction on the background, not this so obviously fake confession that even someone as dumb as Naruto can see through it.

Originally Posted by monir

Naruto is the great hero of Konoha who came in when all was seemingly lost against their battle with Pain. He single handedly brought Konoha back from the brink of total extermination. The key point here is single handedly. Yeah, I understand he wants to carry the burden, but it can't be easy for his friends, especially the one who is closest to him the most next to Sasuke. Naruto needs to share his burden. He needs to show that he can rely on others too. At the moment he is putting a lot of pressure on other by creating these feelings of guilt, helplessness, and the inability to contribute. The end result was Sakura's confession. I admire her courage to put herself through this. She was quite pitiful, but the desperation of the situation wasn't lost on me where the only wish was to tell Naruto he didn't need to squarely put the burden all to himself. I hope Naruto gets it soon. Fortunately for him, Kakashi is still there thoughtfully watching over him.

It's not really the problem, they don't want Naruto to share the burden, they want him out of the way.
Naruto will never give up on Sasuke whereas Konoha -and the rookies along with it- is moving on and have to deal with Sasuke with extreme prejudice.
The problem is, and I'm going to shamelessly quote myself :

I mean, the guy put his arm through Naruto's body 3 years ago and that only convinced Naruto he needed more of him. Some time ago I said Sasuke could skin Sakura alive to make himself a leather jacket he could cheerfully streap off as he fight and Naruto would still try to get him back and truthfully I was only half joking. Seriously, does Sasuke really need to wear Kakashi's scalp as a new hat for Naruto to rethink his comitment? Because I'm not sure that would be enough.

The sad truth is that Sai was completely out of his mind if he thought Naruto was only going after Sasuke because he told Sakura he would.
Naruto will not give up on Sasuke, he will no stand by and let others do the deed (well try to anyway). Naruto isn't sharing his burden because he is become part of the problem.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by monir

Very well put. Let's not also forget about Pain either who cemented his new found belief. Jiraiya is instrumental to Naruto's mental maturation, but it's Jiraiya's disciple, the Pain, who brought down the burden of understanding Naruto now shoulders.

Just when Pain killed Jiraiya, Naruto could understand Sasuke's source of hatred. So, this isn't like when they fought at VotE. That's why his promise with Sakura isn't as important as the thing that burdens the post time-skip Naruto: The cycle of hatred. Sasuke is just a case, but the whole world is full of those examples, Neji, Gaara were among them.

Originally Posted by monir

He still needs to realize that shouldering such burden all by himself isn't possible. He will have to allow others to carry the burden also. To me that was the whole point of Sakura's confession.

Don't think so, because i believe that Kishi used Sakura as a bait, a very bad one, because he wants to show that Naruto isn't a kid anymore, he can be a fool, but he is growing and making his own vision of his world. He could deal with his anger and hatred towards Pain. That was a solid blow to the cycle of hatred.

Remember Shikamaru's words after Jiraiya's death, they aren't kids anymore, now is their turn to do the things and protect the kids from Konoha, same way Asuma and Jiraiya did with them.

The old Naruto would be jumping and doing faces because of that "confession", but the new Naruto can read between lines, he knew that Sakura wanted to protect him from "something" that he doesn't, but he did know that it wasn't nothing good (Basically, they will go and kill Sasuke... )

Originally Posted by Hunter

The sad truth is that Sai was completely out of his mind if he thought Naruto was only going after Sasuke because he told Sakura he would.
Naruto will not give up on Sasuke, he will no stand by and let others do the deed (well try to anyway). Naruto isn't sharing his burden because he is become part of the problem.

Yup. Pretty much this. Every person who is important to Naruto was part of that problem. So, he feels like is his responsability to prove that they are correct and the wrong one is Madara.

And that's why Madara resumed everything in the history of the Sage's sons... they are destined to be facing their point of views in the battlefield.

[Lumir]

Pretty solid episode. Sakura's attempt was not worth the effort. At least now naruto/kakashi/yamoto know something is up. They will find out sooner or later whats up. Naruto is no longer a child as we all have seen and his dedication for sasuke is not just for sasuke, its on a bigger scale then just "a bond" he has with him.

Killa bee and kisame, preview looked interesting. I think we saw kisame transforming or something lol.

[MidnightViper88]

With such a cute face like this, how can you say no to her?



Naruto, you ungrateful SON OF A BITCH!



Actually, with a brief bout of seriousness, this is like a literal conflict of interests...

Sakura obviously failed since she hasn't leveled her Speech abilities up with enough points, but I can tell she was desperately trying to drag Naruto back to Konoha to show him the reality that Sasuke is now an internationally-wanted criminal, and that Naruto shouldn't burden the guilty weight of Sasuke alone...Heck, almost everyone in Konoha of the same generation is torn between beliefs about this, especially with some like Shikamaru who took the mission failure much harder than the rest, although at the same time even Shikamaru took to rationale and ascertained the reality of Sasuke branded as a terrorist...Sakura is probably morally torn just as much in the triangle, worried too much about Naruto worrying too much about Sasuke...I'll be damned if she tries to force her way into things through means of force, though that would be like crossing a river between Scylla and Charybdis, or mugging the monster, depending on what happens...

At the same time in polar opposites, Naruto is still as stubborn as always, not giving a damn what the world tries to do with Sasuke because he has his "way" of resolution with Sasuke, which happens to be tied with his ideological epiphany of breaking the cycle of hatred...He's so devoted to it, that even when his best friend is lying just to persuade him to reality, I don't even think he's giving a serious consideration into what the rest of his friends actually think of the Sasuke situation...I wouldn't call it a type of self-centrism, but it is pretty arrogant, and also very idealistic to the point where it seems rationally impossible...But that's his "way", he's going to see to it until it's end result is realized, and damned if stark realities get in his way...

Anyway, the rest of this episode was just as great...After seeing A go so ape-S in almost every scene he's been in up until the previous episode, it's kind of weird seeing him delve into calm rationale...Who ever knew the big, burly guy was into poetry?

No, literally...Killer B, enka...Really? Jeez, even when he screws everything up and has such cheesy rhymes, Killer B is one of the few characters in the Naruto universe that truly epitomizes the meaning of cool...Here, an Akatsuki rolls on-screen, and he jots down notes about how passion can be used as well as the fact that Ponta is a raccoon, with a little sketch included... But then he gets serious with an attempted Kisame headshot with a pencil...Just like his brother, he is surely unpredictable in combat...

Just as unpredictable would have to be Kisame...Taka easily had their ass handed to them, and even when Sasuke used h4x cheatz, they still ultimately failed...Kisame, on the other hand, is perfectly suited as an opposite to Killer B, even with equal traits...Similar chakra levels, and even similar water animal themes, but he's also with a weapon that absorbs chakra, surely more than enough to be an equalizer in Kisame's favor...And if their standoff in close-quarters combat says anything, then when they go all-out with their respective powers, it's sure to reek absolute destruction from both ends inwards....

I can't wait for the next episode...It makes me wet just thinking about it...

Until then, I'll take my Sakura screencap and go back to my corner now, thank you...

Oh, but before I go...

Originally Posted by monir

He single handedly brought Konoha back from the brink of total extermination. The key point here is single handedly.

Speaking from personal experience, you don't want to say that, specifically with the specific wording of "single-handedly" referring to a specific incident between a specific Naruto specifically battling against 6 specific Paths of...some sort of ambiguous form of Pain...It just raises a crapstorm for some reason; People go on nerd rages, and they start screaming like chimps, except for the fact that they don't look cute doing it and they won't do a monkey dance for you...

So yeah, just a warning incase you get unnecessary backlash...

OK, now I'm going back...

[Kallen4life]

1) thank, you Studio Pierrot, for reminding me why Sakura-chan is The Scrappy


2) this is awesome

Spoiler for WHO LET THE DOGS OUT:

3) Kisame is even more awesome .. he's more badass the Killer Bee .. that likely makes him more badass then 99.99% characters of this manga


in retrospect, sometimes hard to believe that sick little Itachi was stronger then Kisame ^^

[Essenar]

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

1) thank, you Studio Pierrot, for reminding me why Sakura-chan is The Scrappy


2) this is awesome

Spoiler for WHO LET THE DOGS OUT:

3) Kisame is even more awesome .. he's more badass the Killer Bee .. that likely makes him more badass then 99.99% characters of this manga


in retrospect, sometimes hard to believe that sick little Itachi was stronger then Kisame ^^

Itachi was stronger than a lot of shinobi. We already saw Itachi could've killed Sasuke but chose to die instead. (He could've sliced him with Susan'oo when he was completely out of chakra) We also know Pain didn't attack Konoha until Itachi died because Itachi could've defeated him too. (Pain was vulnerable to genjutsu and Itachi's genjutsu's were unrivaled) It's easy to see even Tobi didn't want anything to do with Itachi.

[octaviahawk]

Itachi was truly the most bad ass shinobi. It's sad to see him go.

Am I the only one who thought Sakura thought she was telling the truth? I mean, look at the poor girl's face, she's trying so hard! We all know she's lying, but is she lying to herself as well? It will be interesting to see how the sh*t hits the proverbial fan next week, but however it goes down Naruto will probably forgive Sakura right away. That's the kind of guy he is- anyone else would rain down a hate storm. Poor kid, he should let himself get angry sometimes...

[Fran~]

I believe that Sakura wasn't telling just lies.

I do think that she was honest about how she saw Naruto's development from a prankster to the hero of Konoha. Sakura feels something for Sasuke, same as Ino, but what she told about that Sasuke is a criminal, that's true. If that wasn't the case and her love for Sasuke is really really deep, she wouldn't accept Shikamaru's petition. Did you hear her last words?: "Sorry Naruto"... i can bet that she is after Sasuke now and not for a kiss...

[wsheit]

Wow...despite being a character development heavy ep....just wow. Moments like this bring home how these characters have grown over the eight years the show has been running. And yet the growth feels earned. The execution of the Sakura-Naruto scenes was masterful- just the right amount of flashbacks to punctuate particular points, some nice direction, consistent animation...all-around awesome. Wish I could say the same for the OP, but maybe they're just doing their best to stay spoiler-free.

[DeDe]

Originally Posted by Fran~

i can bet that she is after Sasuke now and not for a kiss...

If that's the case she should head back to Konoha and get the others. If she intends to find and kill Sasuke on her own, then she is an idiot. And why drag Kiba, Sai, and Lee into this madness?

I believe Sakura still loves Sasuke. Ino doesn't. She is just messed up in the head due to the mangaka's confusion with her character at this point. But Sakura loves him. Who knows? Maybe she wants to betray every one and join up with him?

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by Fran~

I believe that Sakura wasn't telling just lies.

I do think that she was honest about how she saw Naruto's development from a prankster to the hero of Konoha. Sakura feels something for Sasuke, same as Ino, but what she told about that Sasuke is a criminal, that's true. If that wasn't the case and her love for Sasuke is really really deep, she wouldn't accept Shikamaru's petition. Did you hear her last words?: "Sorry Naruto"... i can bet that she is after Sasuke now and not for a kiss...

Now see, I think Sakura wasn't lying with her feelings, but she also didn't want to tell Naruto the entire truth of what she's really thinking...When I called Sakura out on her "lie", it's because it's a lie to deceive an ulterior truth deep in her mind...

The first "lie" was something of a deception, although it includes a (seemingly) honest confession of her feelings to Naruto, in an attempt let Naruto know that he's not the only one who has to carry the burden, and that he should stop pursuing Sasuke like a friend like this...Everything after the confession sounds like a last-ditch effort to convince the unflinching which, given Naruto's conviction to his new-found ideological ninja way, is an impossible task in and of itself...

And so with that having failed miserably, she's off to see to the "truth" of her thoughts that she conveniently kept to herself without telling Naruto, that is, her ulterior plan to directly confront Sasuke in some manner or form...She's obviously yet hiding even more inside of her; It remains to be seen whether she'll confront Sasuke by conflict as the terrorist he's been branded as or as a lover in another last-ditch effort to convince the unflinching...

The problem with either side is that, well, words don't work on them anymore...They've made up their minds, and trying to get between them is like getting between Scylla and Charybdis, except she probably will only get torn apart by one monster, and otherwise both sides are just simply beyond her reach...And it's a shame, really; She probably can't understand Naruto's conviction, and she probably can't fathom how cold Sasuke has gotten (Since only Karin has seen Sasuke transpire downwards into into darkness)...

Sakura might as well just dock her boat and watch from afar...

[Fran~]

My problem is that most of the posts in the thread are Sakura centered, when we must focus on Naruto.

He is the protagonist and Sakura's words need to be put in Naruto's context. Kishi made it clear when pre time-skip Naruto said that his word is his ninja way. Sakura went to deceive Naruto with one nasty trick, but it's so silly and absurd than even Naruto knew that there it was something fishy. That's why i think that Kakashi stopped Yamato's intervention.

What was Kishi's motivation?, to show Naruto not as your foolish young man, who can be deceived by a girl (there is tons of that kind of young men ).

To me this episode is pure gold because you can measure Naruto's commitment:
Naruto's ideals > A couple of months thinking that he is Sakura's Boyfriend.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Fran~

To me this episode is pure gold because you can measure Naruto's commitment:
Naruto's ideals > A couple of months thinking that he is Sakura's Boyfriend.

He still wants to be Sakura's boyfriend, but even Naruto can tell when a girl is lying to his face. Sakura overestimated how desperate Naruto is for her. Sometimes girls misjudge their sex appeal to guys.

Naruto wants Sakura to be Mrs. Uzumaki, but in a legitimate way

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

He still wants to be Sakura's boyfriend, but even Naruto can tell when a girl is lying to his face. Sakura overestimated her hotness. Only the prettiest of girls can get away with stunts like she just pulled.

Naruto wants Sakura to be Mrs. Uzumaki, but in a legitimate way

Nah... you don't need to be the hottest girl to pull that kind of tricks... she needs to know that the guy loves her. That's why she thought that she could do it based on Sai's speech.

Naruto doesn't want Sakura as Mrs. Uzumaki, he wants that Sakura will be the happiest girl on Earth... and i can tell that Naruto will sacrifice everything, including his love for Sakura, to achieve that.

My feeling is that Naruto will be like Jiraiya or Simon at the end of Gurren Lagann.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Naruto doesn't want Sakura as Mrs. Uzumaki, he wants that Sakura will be the happiest girl on Earth.

Well then he better get back to working on reuniting Sakura with Sasuke. Cause I can't think of anything that would make her happier.

Actually the greatest point for Naruto x Sakura being canon is her still loving Sasuke. How cliche would it be for Sakura to finally get what she wants, Sasuke back, and then she decides that it was really Naruto she loved all the time?

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by Fran~

My problem is that most of the posts in the thread are Sakura centered, when we must focus on Naruto.

He is the protagonist and Sakura's words need to be put in Naruto's context. Kishi made it clear when pre time-skip Naruto said that his word is his ninja way. Sakura went to deceive Naruto with one nasty trick, but it's so silly and absurd than even Naruto knew that there it was something fishy. That's why i think that Kakashi stopped Yamato's intervention.

What was Kishi's motivation?, to show Naruto not as your foolish young man, who can be deceived by a girl (there is tons of that kind of young men ).

To me this episode is pure gold because you can measure Naruto's commitment:
Naruto's ideals > A couple of months thinking that he is Sakura's Boyfriend.

Well, I won't speak for anyone else, but I'm sure as hell not taking anything away from Naruto...If anything, I could be indirectly saying Sakura is as meaningless as an ornament compared to Naruto's resolve and Sasuke's revenge, especially when she tries to butt in between the two powerhouses like this...

But, you know...When all is said and done and Naruto has cleaned house, it doesn't mean that ships can't sail again...But that's a long way from now...

[MikoKikyo]

How come in the fight with Pein, Hinata confessed to Naruto, then everyone forgot about it and it was like nothing ever happened. Now this. Wtf. This show has great characters and the potential for interesting romance plot development is there, but it ends up being weak in that department. They're like 16 yrs old and nothing ever happens. Although, it often makes for great comic relief (like the Sasuke + Karin scenes). On the other hand, I want to know who Itachi's lover was, who Madara mentions (in passing) on ep 141.

But I'm glad to see Sakura and Naruto split in their search for Sasuke. I'm always amused by Naruto's dysfunctional obsession to "save" Sasuke. It's so stupid, and yet it makes the plot strongly character driven. It keeps the show focused on the main characters in a unique way... It avoids the traditional good V evil cliches. Sasuke is kind of bad but not... Naruto is kind of good but is trying to save his criminal friend.. etc.

I mean, the guy put his arm through Naruto's body 3 years ago and that only convinced Naruto he needed more of him. Some time ago I said Sasuke could skin Sakura alive to make himself a leather jacket he could cheerfully strip off as he fight and Naruto would still try to get him back and truthfully I was only half joking. Seriously, does Sasuke really need to wear Kakashi's scalp as a new hat for Naruto to rethink his comitment? Because I'm not sure that would be enough

Haha... that's great.