One Piece - Chapter 623 [manga]

[upiro]

I’d be shocked if Jimbei’s bounty raise to over 200 million is because he attacked a Tenryuubito. In a world where attacking the World Nobles is one of the greatest, most forbidden crimes, there’s no way he’d be accepted as a Shichibukai. That would allow future pirates to think that they too could get away with doing something like that. Unlike Arlong, who wanted to kill the villagers who betrayed Tiger, I’m guessing that Jimbei will directly attack the ones responsible for killing Tiger: the Marines. The Government would be more tolerant of accepting attacks on Marines as opposed to attacks on World Nobles. Fighting soldiers would also give the Government a good idea of Jimbei’s combat capabilities.

That’s why I’m pretty certain that Luffy will never be invited into the Shichibukai. His bounty is already higher than the original bounties of the other Warlords (of course, we still don’t know what Mihawk’s bounty is) and he’s strong enough to belong in that group. But, having punched ol’ Charlos in the face, I don’t think the Government’s going to call Luffy to Mariejois any time soon.

[james0246]

I expect that the next chapter will reveal the Queen’s assassination, which will in turn lead to Fishman Island starting to revolt against the Humans. To prevent this, Jinbei will ask the World Government to become a Shichibukai in order to provide an outlet for Fishmen rage as well as to provide protection for his island (ala Hancock's protection for Amazon Lily).

[valk0v]

623 does it count for this week, or there will be 624 in the end of the week ?

Edit: Ok, 10x Freya

[Freya]

Originally Posted by valk0v

623 does it count for this week, or there will be 624 in the end of the week ?

623 was this week. it was just early due to last weeks break.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by james0246

I expect that the next chapter will reveal the Queen’s assassination, which will in turn lead to Fishman Island starting to revolt against the Humans. To prevent this, Jinbei will ask the World Government to become a Shichibukai in order to provide an outlet for Fishmen rage as well as to provide protection for his island (ala Hancock's protection for Amazon Lily).

I don't think so. From what we know Fishman island never got the protection that amazon Lily did. It did not need it because Whitebeard was its protector and the WG refused to mess with whitebeard. If Jimbei's status was providing protection to fishman island it would have been brought up during his betrayal in the war. Though i do recall it being said that part of the reason they made Jimbei a schickbukai was to help smooth over relations between humans and fishmen... though thinking about it, it could be that it might have been to smooth over things after the death of Tiger, since that might also spark a lot of angry since he was seen as a hero.

Besides, for fishman island to revolt against the humans over her death seems like it would mean that the WG had a definite hand in it and i don't see what the WG would gain form killing Otihime of all people

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by upiro

I’d be shocked if Jimbei’s bounty raise to over 200 million is because he attacked a Tenryuubito. In a world where attacking the World Nobles is one of the greatest, most forbidden crimes, there’s no way he’d be accepted as a Shichibukai.

And yet it's okay for pirates who hurt/killed several high-ranking military officers to be granted amnesty?


But yeah, I guess I agree that assaulting the nobles would be too severe a crime for the WG to overlook. That is, unless they decide to hush it up or something (hey, they sure as hell had no problem with hushing up a mass prison break)......

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

I was thinking that maybe human pirates are the culprits to Otohime's death. She advocates the co-existence with humans, and yet it is that very same species that brings about her end. That would be a truly tragic end, and would preserve the friction/tension fishmen/merfolk have towards humans. Infuriated by this incident, Jimbei vows to fight off piracy from that day onward (do recall that the government knows him as a pirate-hating pirate). He then accepts the WG's offer to become a shichibukai. Amnesty and Arlong's freedom are just added incentives to do so.

[SilverSyko]

Um, wasn't it already said that it was Decken who killed Otohime?

I might be wrong of course but I swear I read/heard it somewhere.

Then again, Oda did lead us to believe Tiger was killed by humans and in this chapter he actually killed himself, so I guess it could be another twist.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko;3599298T

hen again, Oda did lead us to believe Tiger was killed by humans and in this chapter he actually killed himself, so I guess it could be another twist.

Well, in a round about way humans did kill Tiger.

[Rawrz]

Well even if he is a small time boss, Arlong can still save his ass from Kizaru.All he has to do is to jump back to sea and swim like hell
Still dont get why Kizaru's interested in him.Maybe he is looking for an easy promotion by stirring fishman stuff.

[mr.muscles]

personally i think kizaru will warp arlong into thinking that it was the queens fault for tigers death, and he kills her in revenge. or kizaru tells him to kill the queen if he wants to live

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Um, wasn't it already said that it was Decken who killed Otohime?

I might be wrong of course but I swear I read/heard it somewhere.

Otohime's killer was never specified. And to be honest, I kinda doubt that Decken or his family had anything to do with the murder at this point.....

Originally Posted by mr.muscles

personally i think kizaru will warp arlong into thinking that it was the queens fault for tigers death, and he kills her in revenge. or kizaru tells him to kill the queen if he wants to live

That.... would be kinda twisted, but admittedly I kinda wouldn't put it behind the WG to pull off that kind of twisted stunt (especially when you remember how Akainu manipulated one of Whitebeard's own allies to attack him during the war).....

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by mr.muscles

personally i think kizaru will warp arlong into thinking that it was the queens fault for tigers death, and he kills her in revenge. or kizaru tells him to kill the queen if he wants to live

Originally Posted by marvelB

That.... would be kinda twisted, but admittedly I kinda wouldn't put it behind the WG to pull off that kind of twisted stunt (especially when you remember how Akainu manipulated one of Whitebeard's own allies to attack him during the war).....

Agree that it's not something WG won't do (just look at existence of CP and other twisted stuff so far), but I don't think that is the case. If it is, Akainu should appear in this flashback instead of Kisaru, since that's more of his thing. Kisaru to me is by-the-book type of guy who will not do anything more than required nor anything less, compare to Akainu going all out of his way and Aoikiji's bending-rule ways.








Also after read the discussion for last couple of chapter, it seem there are a few people think Arlong shown in flashback doesn't explain his later action, I have to disagree this that. Here is what I see of Arlong in these chapter.

Granted Arlong is not a former slave and seem ill supported in his later actions, and obviously what he did was still wrong , but I did notice something interesting that might worth being touch up on.

Didn't know if anyone noticed and it didn't seem the fact was brought up in the discussion, but at the end of 621 Arlong was shown to be the one that stopped the others from beating on the unconscious Marines while Jinbe was the one holding the unconscious body up for questioning. It could be said that at the beginning of the Sun Pirate, Jinbe was the more aggressive of the two. It's in the next chapter that we start to see Arlong's kill-them-all attitude and was disciplined by Fisher Tiger, and keep in mind that it's not just him, Jinbe was alongside been lectured by Fisher Tiger as well. That's not the Jinbe we see right now.

It after three years when Kaola came aboard we see Jinbe showing some concern from him as well as Arlong's physical abuse. Than in this chapter Arlong noted that how everywhere they went, they were been discriminated on and even mentioned that Jimbei has changed somewhat.

To me it points out something really interesting. Jimbei started out skeptical of Otohime's view and and said as such in 621 and after join the Sun Pirate he was shown as the more aggressive of the two and seem seem to view human as enemy more so than Arlong at the end of the chapter. He changed in those years on the sea and became more open to the idea of learning more about human. He sees the fear from the humans they met and realized that are also decent human beings.

On the other hand, being on the same ship for couple years Arlong took a different turn. He was the one who had shown more restraint at the end of 621, but instead of seen what Jinbe has seen during their voyage, he saw something entirely different. From his view, he only saw the distrust and despise, as well as being looked down upon. Helped by his own short temper, he became more violent towards human.

Of course that still doesn't justify what he did, but on contrary to some people think and mention in last chapter's discussion, I think this flashback does show how Arlong become what he is now and in addition how Jinbe become who he is now. If you view both of them as
on the brink of deciding what to do for their race's future Jinbe somehow was sway back to Otohime's ideal while Arlong solidifies the stereotypical fishmen/mermaid view.

[marvelB]

^While I pretty much agree with your post, I just have to point out a little error: Koala wasn't with the Sun pirates for three years. Rather, they met her 3 years after the crew was first formed. Otherwise, exactly how much time she spent with them was never specified (though I'm pretty sure it was for less than ONE year, let alone three).....




Anyways, there's something that recently occurred to me: Since Tiger was revealed to be a former slave himself, does this mean that other former slaves like Aladdin were aware of his secret from the beginning? I mean, it's probably just me, but Aladdin didn't seem as shocked as the other non-slave members did during the confession. I kinda wouldn't be surprised if him and the other former slaves kept their mouths shut out of respect for their captain......

[Hisoka??]

Originally Posted by marvelB

^While I pretty much agree with your post, I just have to point out a little error: Koala wasn't with the Sun pirates for three years. Rather, they met her 3 years after the crew was first formed. Otherwise, exactly how much time she spent with them was never specified (though I'm pretty sure it was for less than ONE year, let alone three).....




Anyways, there's something that recently occurred to me: Since Tiger was revealed to be a former slave himself, does this mean that other former slaves like Aladdin were aware of his secret from the beginning? I mean, it's probably just me, but Aladdin didn't seem as shocked as the other non-slave members did during the confession. I kinda wouldn't be surprised if him and the other former slaves kept their mouths shut out of respect for their captain......

Not quite. It is entirely reasonable that they didn't know. Being a slave isn't like being a celebrity. Him being a slave won't have been announced to the whole slave community and there was no central slave storage area where rumours among slaves will spread.

Each slave/ herd of slaves were probably kept with their masters with no outside news other than the snippets they overhear while being tortured/used/displayed. I certainly don't see them reading the list of slaves for sale or the newspapers.

Not to mention that as slaves, they probably didn't care to find out or remember the list of slaves caught. Their concern would be either staying alive/unscath or escaping. Or for those who no longer have the willpower, nothing matters.

[shankss]

This arc surprisingly forced me to show Arlong some sympathy.We all knew him as a racist sick psychopath and I hated him since then, but now he has enough reasons.Even that he was rushy and careless, he never went up against Fisher Tiger when it comes to human slaying and thats impressive.After seeing him gone all the way back to island to avenge Tiger...he must've really respected Tiger and his ideas to the point of forgetting his own racist ideals.Maybe Arlong had the potential to become the next Fisher Tiger if only their alliance survived longer.

Now I know why Jinbei had that Arlong flashback at Marineford gates.Merman Island arc can become my personal fav if Oda decides to go deeper into Arlong's mind and maybe adding him in later on.

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by marvelB

^While I pretty much agree with your post, I just have to point out a little error: Koala wasn't with the Sun pirates for three years. Rather, they met her 3 years after the crew was first formed. Otherwise, exactly how much time she spent with them was never specified (though I'm pretty sure it was for less than ONE year, let alone three).....




Anyways, there's something that recently occurred to me: Since Tiger was revealed to be a former slave himself, does this mean that other former slaves like Aladdin were aware of his secret from the beginning? I mean, it's probably just me, but Aladdin didn't seem as shocked as the other non-slave members did during the confession. I kinda wouldn't be surprised if him and the other former slaves kept their mouths shut out of respect for their captain......

Must of been mis-type, I meant after those threes years and then when Koala come aboard...



As for Fisher Tiger's confession, I don't know if the other former slave knew, but I start to question the whole "scale up the Redline" thing itself. IMO, to accomplish that feat, it'll take at least same level of strength as say Rayleigh, Garp, 3 Admirals, if not the level of WB and Roger, and from what we are shown so far, Fisher Tiger is not at that level, even if he is stronger than current Jinbe. (and even that's arguable considering all this happened well over 10 years ago and Jinbe should be stronger now compare to then.)

After all, Fisher Tiger was captured and sold as slave, and was then seriously injured by the Marines. Granted it was an ambush, but it was not Buster Call and it didn't seem to be that large a force (no worse that what Luffy, Kid and Law faced in Shanbody and all three were confident they can escape even without the help of the other two.) Not to mention there was no big-name marine other than Strawberry who, IMO, is more or less second-rate marine behind likes of Aoikiji, Garp, etc.

It is hard to think that Fisher Tiger was able to assault Majorie and release all the slaves by himself if he can't handle Strawberry and break through the ambush with relative ease (or at least with less injuries).

With the way WG are handling things and how former slave tends to try to cover up those shames like Hancock and himself did. I'm begging to think what was being described as "assault & rescue" by Fisher Tiger was actually Fisher Tiger escaping, and during his own escape he decided to free other slaves as well similar to the way Luffy escapes Impel Down.

Originally Posted by Hisoka??

Not quite. It is entirely reasonable that they didn't know. Being a slave isn't like being a celebrity. Him being a slave won't have been announced to the whole slave community and there was no central slave storage area where rumours among slaves will spread.

Each slave/ herd of slaves were probably kept with their masters with no outside news other than the snippets they overhear while being tortured/used/displayed. I certainly don't see them reading the list of slaves for sale or the newspapers.

Not to mention that as slaves, they probably didn't care to find out or remember the list of slaves caught. Their concern would be either staying alive/unscath or escaping. Or for those who no longer have the willpower, nothing matters.

Except Fisher Tiger is pretty well known among Fishmen, evidently from the reception he got when he returned and the fact he seem to able to gain audience with Neptune with ease and both Neptune and Otohime appear to know him personally. Not to mention based on what was said back by that old Tenryuubito back in Shabondy, they seem to like to use Fishmen as mounts it won't suprise me if "some" of former fishmen slaves knew but was hush about it due to both respect and shame.

Originally Posted by shankss

This arc surprisingly forced me to show Arlong some sympathy.We all knew him as a racist sick psychopath and I hated him since then, but now he has enough reasons.Even that he was rushy and careless, he never went up against Fisher Tiger when it comes to human slaying and thats impressive.After seeing him gone all the way back to island to avenge Tiger...he must've really respected Tiger and his ideas to the point of forgetting his own racist ideals.Maybe Arlong had the potential to become the next Fisher Tiger if only their alliance survived longer.

Now I know why Jinbei had that Arlong flashback at Marineford gates.Merman Island arc can become my personal fav if Oda decides to go deeper into Arlong's mind and maybe adding him in later on.

I won't go that far though, Arlong might have some reason for his actions later, the problem still lies that he choose to ignore the possible good in human during their travel while Jinbe (and other crew members) learns the opposite. I can understand the reason of his action, but I still don't sympathize him. It's like I can understand why Hitler or Mao or other dictator/tyrants did what they did, but I don't sympathize them one bit.

That reminds me, that Fishermen Karate guy who ended up with Arlong was also in the flashback, and I didn't remeber he been "too much" of an ass back in Arlong Arc as well. Maybe other than Arlong himself, none of his Key members were really that far gone and the only reason they followed Arlong was as Hachi said because they grew up together.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

It is hard to think that Fisher Tiger was able to assault Majorie and release all the slaves by himself if he can't handle Strawberry and break through the ambush with relative ease (or at least with less injuries).

Well, remember that Strawberry didn't even attack Tiger, it was a bunch of grunts that pumped him full of lead. If Strawberry were solo, Tiger should be more than able to handle him since we DID see him beat up a RA just last chapter......




But enough of that for now. It's that time of week again..... I believe you guys know the drill by now.

[Undertaker]

True, but when did those leads ever bother mid-to-top tier characters in OP? Not counting Luffy, Zoro, Franky, and Brook. I can see Sanji and even Robin and Chopper breakthrough that ambush or at least made a run for it pre-timeskip. (minus Strawberry)

[paradox13]

Well, remember that Strawberry didn't even attack Tiger

Since the assault was mostly half off panel, we wouldn't know if Strawberry attacked him.

I would think that its plausible he would, or else I don't believe FT would've been taken down so easily.