(L+CR) Cross Ange

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

Aside from calling the cavity search scene rape

It was rape as far as Ange is concerned, which is what matters in this context really. I agree with the rest though.

[Fimbulvetr]

Originally Posted by Elazul

People judge everything so harshly nowadays. To understand Angie's actions, I believe we must put an effort to understand her social and cultural environment first. Angie was basically raised in a golden cage. People told her what to do, what to dress and even what to think, and she doesn't feel the need to disagree, because she was loved by everyone and she was perfectly happy with her life. Plus, she was a princess, and as a princess her only job was to please her people. So, the whole world told her that Norma are evil beings, and must be disposed of all costs, and everyone she knows thought the same way. Also, she never had any contact with a Norma before. Therefore, when she allowed the baby's detention she thought it was the right thing to do.

IRL, people often commit suicide after being cheated, or when they lose their jobs, or even for more trivial reasons, simply because they can't withstand the pain. In Angie's case, she fell from Heaven to Hell, she lost everything she loved and now she is experiencing a truly painful situation, so her denial is absolutely plausible. I even can say that her psychological resilience is definitely above average, because a normal person could have acted worse. What do you expect of a pampered princess, who lived her whole life on a perfect peaceful world, after being abandoned, throw in prison, raped, beaten, and now ordered to fight vicious winged monsters?

Thanks for writing that, so I didn't have to.
The princess might have been a bit "out of touch" but she never harbored any ill will against anyone, at least not before being mistreated like that.


She was taught that Norma are dangerous. You can all be high and mighty and say you wouldn't have simply believed what everyone you ever knew is saying. I just doubt it.
She allowed the detention of a baby because as far as she knew that was the right course of action to ensure the safety of her citizens. I don't think she enjoyed it, it just had to be done.
Hypocrisy, where exactly?
She abandoned a mission - that she never accepted in the first place. And she was only there to observe anyway, if I understood that correctly.
She is not resposible for the death of those 2 bimbos who suddenly try to follow her like lemmings.
And Zola had it coming, rapists will never get any pity from me. I admit, I don't understand why anyone would think that grabbing the mecha of an ally during a deadly fight and thus limiting both their movements could ever help anyone, but I have to remind myself that the princess was panicking so it doesn't really have to make that much sense. So yeah, her actions, but not her fault, nor her resposibility.

Who had the great idea to put someone who just tries to escape in the cockpit of a flying mecha anyway? Even if it was Salia or Zora, Jill should have known better and prevented that. So yeah, if we're pointing fingers to place the blame for those 3 deaths then I pick the one who was actually in charge of that operation. Jill probably knows that well, which is why she lost no time to blame hospitalized Ange. Which makes her just one more evil bitch.

[DuelGundam2099]

as Ange is concerned

Strange, I don't remember here say- Nope, stopping here.

She allowed the detention of a baby because as far as she knew that was the right course of action to ensure the safety of her citizens. I don't think she enjoyed it, it just had to be done.

This is a detail I'm amazed more people have not picked up on, her empire is told "these people are friggin dangerous", even if not as babies it would be assumed they would cause serious conflict when they got older and the mode of thinking would be "catch them early". If I may quote the Syfy classic movie Snakehead Terror: "Babies grow up". This is not something limited to just Ange, her entire society thinks this way.

Also for the rookie pilots, unlike Ange they were given education on the DRAGONs and para-mils much longer than she did, they failed at what they were much better trained for. What happened to those two was their own fault.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I enjoyed that episode quite a bit, despite the fact that Ange suddenly powered up due to a deus-ex-machina ring I thought she had had taken from her, and switched from determined escapee to determined fighter so quickly it made my head spin.

[Redhazard]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

Also for the rookie pilots, unlike Ange they were given education on the DRAGONs and para-mils much longer than she did, they failed at what they were much better trained for. What happened to those two was their own fault.

Now, let's be fair. Ange is not entirely free of responsibility. Her actions did cause chaos in the battlefield.

That said, sending Ange out in the first place was not a good choice. Following Ange when she decided she wanted to escape was also not a good choice nor was spacing out because your friend was killed.

So really, plenty of blame to throw around.

[bakato]

So it took only three episodes for the bitch to get it together. Not bad.

[HandofFate]

lol @ episode 3.
Just starting it now.
I expectd Coco to die since she was hitting flags all over, but expected the other to live for at least another episode.

Then she gets mul-luv alternative'd and it was great. Now that's the kind of fanservice I want.

Later on in the episode, Ange peeing herself lol.

Is it really possible for a girl with long hair to cut it all in one stroke and look like she just came out of a salon?

[vic-vic]

Guys you've been to hard on poor Miranda and Coco - don't forget they're JUST 12 years old girls. It's really hard to blame them for their behavior - while they were raised on Arsenal it's still doesn't change the fact they're just children.

Also, from what we saw, they both started to get lessons of actual piloting and combat at the same time as Ange. So if we can feel for her panicking on her first battlefield why don't pity pair of young girls - Ange IS older. After all NO amount of teaching can really prepare them for a true battlefield.

[ChampDream]

so after a cavity search /rape, almost getting rape by Zola and being responsible of the dead of 3 people, Ange manage to change. I'm curious about what happen to her country, specially her little sister.

[Arya]

What can I say, I really enjoyed the episode It was so over the top at any level but still it worked for me. Well, mostly in a hilarious way, I mean, when the eye dropped on her I thought I was already mesmerized but the close sequence of the events So the clothes transparency passed by almost unnoticed, but then the subsequent fight happened with the pee and the erect nipples ... and the completely absurdness of that transformation from a junk mecha to a shining Akatsuki. All in all a glorious episode. The icing in the cake pudding her remark about how awful was it, yeah, the pudding. We could debate that it was good but felt disgusting as a metaphor of what it represented and all, but well, I prefer to believe that she found it disgusting for some reasons
In any case I'm liking Ange's characterization and path all in all. hopefully she won't stop being a bitch, but just a whining bitch.

[Anh_Minh]

No rape scene! So... progress?

Also, don't they have people watching the situation? They should. A bunch of small dragons + Ange shouldn't have gotten that close without someone warning Zola.

[Kazu-kun]

We have one rapist less in the team. I'd call that progress.

I could do without watersports, but perhaps that's too much to ask.

[Anh_Minh]

Also, funny how cool everyone was with Ange flying behind them. I'd really rather not turn my back on her, if I was them.

[ImperialKnight]

Originally Posted by vic-vic

Guys you've been to hard on poor Miranda and Coco - don't forget they're JUST 12 years old girls. It's really hard to blame them for their behavior - while they were raised on Arsenal it's still doesn't change the fact they're just children.
Also, from what we saw, they both started to get lessons of actual piloting and combat at the same time as Ange. So if we can feel for her panicking on her first battlefield why don't pity pair of young girls - Ange IS older. After all NO amount of teaching can really prepare them for a true battlefield.

Well technically speaking they weren't suppose to be on the front lines they were suppose to be the reserve and learn from the veterans. Ange deserting pretty much destroyed all of that and there was little Zola could do but finish the mission.

We have one rapist less in the team. I'd call that progress.

I could do without watersports, but perhaps that's too much to ask.

One less? Who's the other one?

What can I say, I really enjoyed the episode It was so over the top at any level but still it worked for me. Well, mostly in a hilarious way, I mean, when the eye dropped on her I thought I was already mesmerized but the close sequence of the events So the clothes transparency passed by almost unnoticed, but then the subsequent fight happened with the pee and the erect nipples ... and the completely absurdness of that transformation from a junk mecha to a shining Akatsuki. All in all a glorious episode. The icing in the cake pudding her remark about how awful was it, yeah, the pudding. We could debate that it was good but felt disgusting as a metaphor of what it represented and all, but well, I prefer to believe that she found it disgusting for some reasons

I found it weird that when she was going through an epiphany all she was thinking back to was Zola...I mean really...Zola really did read her well despite her intentions.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Elazul

People judge everything so harshly nowadays. To understand Angie's actions, I believe we must put an effort to understand her social and cultural environment first. Angie was basically raised in a golden cage. People told her what to do, what to dress and even what to think, and she doesn't feel the need to disagree, because she was loved by everyone and she was perfectly happy with her life. Plus, she was a princess, and as a princess her only job was to please her people. So, the whole world told her that Norma are evil beings, and must be disposed of all costs, and everyone she knows thought the same way. Also, she never had any contact with a Norma before. Therefore, when she allowed the baby's detention she thought it was the right thing to do.

IRL, people often commit suicide after being cheated, or when they lose their jobs, or even for more trivial reasons, simply because they can't withstand the pain. In Angie's case, she fell from Heaven to Hell, she lost everything she loved and now she is experiencing a truly painful situation, so her denial is absolutely plausible. I even can say that her psychological resilience is definitely above average, because a normal person could have acted worse. What do you expect of a pampered princess, who lived her whole life on a perfect peaceful world, after being abandoned, throw in prison, raped, beaten, and now ordered to fight vicious winged monsters?

There is one thing that can't be imprinted by upbringing, it's inability think for yourself. Even if everything is served on silver plate to you, whether you look on your surrounding and use your head it's all up to you. I don't blame Angeline for her prejudices, she would be realy special to avoid that, but that's only thing she can be excused for.

And for suicide people who does it are cowards, but Angeline is even greater coward than them as she can't even follow through with it

It's good Angeline died and I hope Ange will be able repay her dept.

Originally Posted by Elder

She is still a terrible terrible person. She got all those people killed and in the end there was no contrition. She still thinks the world revolves around her whether it be going kamikaze to regain her real name or now killing for survival. The only major realization is she finally accepts that she is Norma scum.

There is nothing wrong on being Norma scum, and accepting that is actualy great improvment, especialy if she wil get enough determination at least kill for own life, which she couldn't until now. As long as she will be at least as decent person as Zola was she will be fine character.

Originally Posted by kirasama

wait a dragon attack >> take the fleet run >> go live somewhere >> let they deal with the dragons without weapons.
why not ?

because fuel.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

I found it weird that when she was going through an epiphany all she was thinking back to was Zola...I mean really...Zola really did read her well despite her intentions.

She didn't read her at all. She was just projecting her view of Norma on Ange. Ironically, what she says isn't any different than how the whole world see them. Zola tells Ange that Norma are violent and wild. Unless Zola was being ironic, which I doubt, she probably believes this because they have been taught since childhood that all they're good for is fighting.

Ange remembers this during her battle because she starts to feels exhilarated in her desperation. Like the rest of the world, she doesn't see Norma as human, she sees them as wild beasts, and in that moment, as she feels ecstatic while killing the dragon, Ange starts to think that she's a monster after all, that she's a Norma. Because only a beast could feel so alive and ecstatic while killing.

That's her conclusion. Her view on Norma still hasn't changed. They're still non-humans monsters to her. What changed is how she sees herself.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

And for suicide people who does it are cowards

That's just your opinion.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

There is one thing that can't be imprinted by upbringing, it's inability think for yourself.

There's no such a thing as thinking for yourself, not completely at the very least. Your way of thinking can never completely escape the influence of the world around you. Not just your upbringing but culture and society as whole have an effect on your thought process whether you like it or not.

[Tenzen12]

Of course it's my opinion. Label it as such says nothing about it's credibility though

And for thinking for ownself, of course you can't escape COMPLETELY to influence of world around, that's why I never blamed her for her prejudices. But not even make effort that's something she can blamed.

[ImperialKnight]

Originally Posted by Fimbulvetr

She was taught that Norma are dangerous. You can all be high and mighty and say you wouldn't have simply believed what everyone you ever knew is saying. I just doubt it.
She allowed the detention of a baby because as far as she knew that was the right course of action to ensure the safety of her citizens. I don't think she enjoyed it, it just had to be done.

Correct me if I'm wrong but she did asked her mother about "Normas" and that she would find a way to get rid of them all to bring peace to the world and that was with a smiling face...

Hypocrisy, where exactly?
She abandoned a mission - that she never accepted in the first place. And she was only there to observe anyway, if I understood that correctly.
She is not resposible for the death of those 2 bimbos who suddenly try to follow her like lemmings.

For the record Miranda was trying to talk sense into her in that there was absolutely no way she could escape due to fuel issues.

[Esclair]

The real question is why does her ring power up the mecha? Maybe she's actually some kind of SUPER NORMA. I'm guessing Jill knows about whatever secret it is behind Ange's ring and that special mech, hence why she is considerably more lenient towards her than she should be.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Label it as such says nothing about it's credibility though.

It's easy to dismiss something that makes you uncomfortable, but you can't understand others if you don't try to put yourself in their place.

In a way, that's why Ange is so disliked. Her context is different and uncomfortable. It's easier to project our values and blame her from that point of view. But that's meaningless.