2013-11-16, 02:04 | Link #1 |
miragecoordinator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Right there
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Will 4K have an impact on the fansub-scene?
I read that Japan wants to start broadcasting anime in this new high resolution format in 2015, you guys think fansubs will adopt to this or just stay with he old resolutions?
It would also be interesting to know if CR has any plans with 4K.
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2013-11-16, 05:10 | Link #2 |
Aegisub dev
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 39
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The studios are not even producing at the full HD resolutions. A 1080p broadcast/encode of anime today has more pixels encoded than were original drawn or rendered. Until they start producing material in higher source resolution than that there's no advantage to going higher. (And also 1080p streams/downloads are waste of bandwidth.)
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2013-11-16, 12:29 | Link #3 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
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I don't think fansubbers will be able to capture the 4K broadcasts for a good while because there definitely is a new copy protection scheme coming along with it. Not to mention, first 4K channels probably aren't even going to air anime. Fansubbing might die off completely before you see first genuine 4K encodes anyway.
Last edited by 8426753; 2013-11-16 at 12:40. |
2013-11-17, 12:02 | Link #4 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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My guess is that Japan's 4K broadcasts have more to do with Sony's need to re-establish itself in the home video industry as they do with popular demand. Remember, too, that the size of video streams and files are a function of the square of the dimensions, so a 3840x2160 resolution video is four times larger than one at 1080p. With download sizes for anime episodes now pushing 500 MB in some cases, 4K downloads would be on the order of 2 GB per episodes.
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2013-11-18, 15:43 | Link #5 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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The real problem with 4k for me is lack of computer displays with such (or higher) resolution. |
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2013-11-18, 16:16 | Link #7 |
大巧不工
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I don't think 4k displays would be the driving force, but rather multi-display setups (I personally do not see a reason why a 24 inch 4k display is a logical object of existence). Instead of how anime is right now, with the characters taking maybe 40% of the screen size, they would take up maybe 10% of screen size, with the extra spaces being part of the environment to help with immersion as if you are "inside the anime". Think IMAX films.
Who knows, maybe 20 years from now the prices of displays would be so cheap that everyone can afford to have an IMAX theatre in their living room. Which reminded me: rmb all those 3D TVs a few years ago? Those never took off even though the manufacturers keep trying to turn them into the next big thing. |
2013-11-20, 23:55 | Link #9 |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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To be honest, anime would benefit much more from either 10 bit or 4:2:2 (or both) consumer formats combined with displays which also can handle that color depth.
You wouldn't even have to change most of the animation process/software for that, and it would give an appreciable increase in quality of anime, especially gradients and linework. But there's no move to that in the consumer space at all because... Well personally I think it's because it's harder to market. Consumers understand "4K", 'cause it's simple. More pixels, better picture, duh. Try explaining the difference between 8 bit and 10 bit color or 4:2:2/4:2:0 to your average consumer and their eyes will glaze over.
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2013-11-21, 02:51 | Link #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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... Actually, scrap that. Increasing the detail level of an image is the same as drawing that many more images, so again money are going to be the limiting factor. Since budgets are not likely to increase, only computer effects are going to add any extra bulk to the file sizes. |
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2013-11-21, 08:44 | Link #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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We'll still have to wait to see which format(s) will prevail in the market/discussions. I heard hardware makers want to keep 8 Bit to make their job simpler, i.e. chips smaller/cheaper. |
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2013-11-21, 12:31 | Link #12 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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2013-11-21, 13:49 | Link #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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They are talking about delivery to the consumer but I don't know what will come out of it. I think it's too early to say and may very well end up with a foul compromise. Though even it it turns out to be optional it doesn't necessarily mean we won't be seeing it of course. If consumers lose interest in more pixels the industry might opt for additional features to sell their 4K format.
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2013-11-21, 19:30 | Link #14 | |
Senior Member
Fansubber
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Even disregarding extra detail, though, I'd say that you'd be looking at a 50% increase in file size at the very least to maintain the same quality when upscaling a 1080p anime to 4K. Increased resolution, even if it's not any more detailed, still eats a ton of space. |
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2013-11-22, 00:51 | Link #15 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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If you switch from mpeg2 to mpeg4 I suppose you can maintain the same quality then since that should give at least a 2x efficiency increase to compensate for the 50% increase in "data".
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2013-11-22, 05:00 | Link #16 |
Senior Member
Fansubber
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Well, the issue was download sizes, so I was referring to sizes of reencoded broadcasts. Say, if a native 1080p anime were upscaled and broadcast at 4K, encoding that broadcast at its full resolution vs. downscaling it back to 1080p.
But yeah, I think they'd have to switch to H.264 for 4K broadcasts or else it would be completely unwatchable at the current bitrates. MPEG2 is already bad enough at 1080i. |
2013-11-22, 06:26 | Link #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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They usually opt for the newest codec that's available. Japan is probably using MPEG2 because they were a fast adopter of HD. Countries that adopted HD later on already use H.264. I guess using at least H.264 for 4K is a sure bet, probably even H.265 if encoders are ready by the time Japan starts 4K (or 8K, remember reading somewhere that they're thinking about skipping 4K*).
/edit: * http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/8k-ol...1309133322.htm They have enough terrestrial bandwidth for 30 Mbit/s per channel? Wow. |
2013-11-22, 13:25 | Link #18 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Last edited by TheFluff; 2013-11-22 at 13:37. |
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2013-11-24, 10:29 | Link #20 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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If they were to think outside of the box, they can adopt Vector format for animation, something similar to Flash. In that case, resolution becomes irrelevant. |
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