[Manga] Chapter 258 Discussion

[lommm]

no. i wasn't asking who they were in the pic. i know who they are. I was just pointing out that Kubo draws that pink-haired guy an awful lot like Ishida and Ryuken.

i should have put some space or something in between those two paragraphs.

i was asking who Cirucci and Dordonie (and whoever Chad is fighting) are equivalent to in SS. I get that Espada are like Captains+1/2Vaizards and Numeros are like Vice-Captains or maybe even like number threes who just know their shikai. I'm still trying to figure out where Cirucci and Dodonie fit within the rankings/equivalencies.

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by lommm;

no. i wasn't asking who they were in the pic. i know who they are. I was just pointing out that Kubo draws that pink-haired guy an awful lot like Ishida and Ryuken.

He does look similar to Ryuuken the glasses and the hairstyle . He is Zaera-Polo (ザエルアポロ) . He was monitoring Ichi during Ichi Vs Dor Battle . He ordered exquias to strike once Dor was defeated . I am more intrested in knowing more about the old geezer as always Old Geezer is going to be really powerful .

You already know this probably just in case

Spoiler for Zera Polo:

Zaera-Polo is an average size Espada with shoulder-length, pink hair and red-orange eyes. He wears silver-framed glasses which give him an intelligent appearance. His arrancar outfit is slightly different from others in that he wears shorter hakama that expose a type of sock covering his shins. The Exequias that appeared before Dordonii after he was defeated were ordered by Zaera-Polo without Aizen's approval. Zaera-Polo, expecting to be punished for his unapproved action, apologized deeply to Aizen, who chose not to punish Zaera-Polo for his decision because it was not destructive.

He seems to do scientific work due to the fact that he was asked by Aizen to extract information on Ichigo's reiatsu from Dordonii's body. Although Zaera-Polo is very polite to Aizen, later gestures he makes when his back is turned make it appear that he resents him. No remains of a hollow mask are visible on his body (though some fans speculate that his glasses are actually his mask), nor has he been shown to carry a zanpakutō yet. The position of his hollow hole also has yet to be confirmed.

Nothing is know regarding Tres Cefres Hierarchy . IMO they are stronger than Numeros .

[lommm]

i think so too. especially considering the thrashing all of the numeros took from Ikkaku, Rukia and others. In comparison, Cirucci and especially Dordonie seemed to be more on Luppi's level. Their release forms certainly look similar.

[nitraw]

Originally Posted by Zek

This chapter makes me wonder how it is that the Quincy were so easily annihilated by the Shinigami. Did they send a bunch of captains to the real world or something?

I think it was mentioned before that the density of spirit particles in Soul Society and Hueco Mundo exceeds that of the real world. So Ishida has far more particles to his disposal than the Quincies in the real world had.
Besides that it was also said that he has incredible potential (Mayuri said so if I'm not mistaken).

Originally Posted by lommm

and technically "schneider" would not be a blade so much as scissors (though the words are still different). Sword in German is "Klinge" while scissors in German are "Schere" so Schneider is a little closer to scissors. Anyway, I guess my point is that Soul Cutter doesn't actually mean a sword, just something that cuts.

"Seele Schneider" is quite a good german translation for "soul cutter". It's not perfect, though. If you're into language stuff read on otherwise just skip the rest of my post

The most common translation for "Schneider" would be "tailor". While that doesn't make much sense in regard to a weapon, it's probably a pun on Ishidas tailoring skills (and it was stated before that the "Seele Schneider" looks a lot like a needle). Also it should be "Seelenschneider". "Seele Schneider" feels more like "Soul. Cutter.", ie two separate words.
"Schneider" is only closer to scissors than a blade in that a tailor mainly uses a scissor
Also sword is "Schwert" while "Klinge" is "blade". Just for clarification.

[Zek]

Originally Posted by lommm

i think so too. especially considering the thrashing all of the numeros took from Ikkaku, Rukia and others. In comparison, Cirucci and especially Dordonie seemed to be more on Luppi's level. Their release forms certainly look similar.

I think Luppi must have been a Tres Cefres originally, and was brought back in as a temp when Grimmjow lost his position.

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by The Small One

When was this said? I can't remember, that it was ever said, that Espada have a second release.

Its a simple deduction from the fact that Numeros are compared to Fuku Taichos . The Requisite or the seprating factor of a Taicho is Bankai ie second release . So it would be safe to deduce That espada as having a higher rank than Numeros may have a second release .

How should this work? They are already merged with their sword after the first release.

The second release may further enhance their bodies and increaase in size . We have seen only one Menos in Bleach and well he is huge . Vasterodes and Adjucas class are smaller in size . But none of the first releases seen amounted to even size of hollows inclusing Yami . They are relatively bigger but not huge

IMHO second release may lead to further increase in size .

[AmbiDextrose]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Its a simple deduction from the fact that Numeros are compared to Fuku Taichos . The Requisite or the seprating factor of a Taicho is Bankai ie second release . So it would be safe to deduce That espada as having a higher rank than Numeros may have a second release .



The second release may further enhance their bodies and increaase in size . We have seen only one Menos in Bleach and well he is huge . Vasterodes and Adjucas class are smaller in size . But none of the first releases seen amounted to even size of hollows inclusing Yami . They are relatively bigger but not huge

IMHO second release may lead to further increase in size .

I don't think so. Considering that a taicho-level shinigami in bankai-mode (Hitsugaya) barely defeated a released substitute Espada (Luppi) and Grimmjow wasn't the least bit interrested in Ichigo until the latter went bankai, you could probably compare a non-released Espada to half-way between taicho-level shikai and bankai. This would put a released Espada somewhat above a bankai taicho, which supports Hitsugaya's theory.

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by AmbiDextrose

Considering that a taicho-level shinigami in bankai-mode (Hitsugaya) barely defeated a released substitute Espada (Luppi) .

Toshiro is a green horn taicho using him as measure of Espada power would be wrong .

I dont know what you said might be true we have not seen or witnessed the true power of Espada . So I said IMO
( In My Opnion ) , also those Espada which Aizen plans to take over SS are diffrent . He did say it to Gin after Tosen Grim altercation

[AmbiDextrose]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Toshiro is a green horn taicho using him as measure of Espada power would be wrong .

Well, so was Luppi so they should have been on equal footing as far as combat experience goes. Luppi's only mistake in that fight was that he didin't follow through and finnished-off Hitsugaya before turning his attention to the other remaining shinigami (i.e., arrogance and inexperience). Otherwise, Toshiro would have been a head shorter- and I don't mean figuratively. Plus, Luppi was a replacement Espada- I don't think even Aizen planned to keep him in the ranks of Espada for long.

In any case, it would be interesting to see if the Espadas have a second release. Probably the first one would just be an increase in raw power while the second one reverts them to their natural form.

[lommm]

@nitraw: thanks for the clarification. good to know that there was a pun about sewing in there. i wasn't crazy in thinking it looked like a giant needle.


as to this discussion about luppi, etc. I am wondering if Yami is the lowest ranking of the espada. he seems not much different from Dordonie, Cirucci, and Luppi.

also, this is off topic from this chapter, but is there anyone in SS who we think might be vaizard? i mean, if ikkaku was able to hide a big ass bankai from everyone, couldn't someone be hiding a mask? (Mayuri seems a good candidate, but i don't want to see him too much again)

[Lendial]

hah vizard mayuri would be sick, his bankai is alreayd pretty nasty imagine what the hollow version would be like.

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by lommm

I am wondering if Yami is the lowest ranking of the espada. he seems not much different from Dordonie, Cirucci, and Luppi.

Yami is the lowest ranking Espada , Rank 10 or Espada no 10 . Espada rank is expressed with a number tatoo like Grim and Lupi had 6 or Sexta Espada =]

[lommm]

i know that. i'm just stating that with yami being a suck-ass and lupi eating it with a cero from grimjow, i'm guessing that old guy, Ulquiorra, and one or two of the others are going to be ridiculously powerful. i mean, like to fight them, shinji will actually have to release to shikai. lol


oh, i just had a vision: when SS and HM clash in Karakura town 100 chapters from now, Old Man Yamaji and Old Man Espada will have an old-timey coot-off! yee haw!

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Yami is the lowest ranking Espada , Rank 10 or Espada no 10 . Espada rank is expressed with a number tatoo like Grim and Lupi had 6 or Sexta Espada =]

Was it actually stated that the Espada number equals rank among themselves? I can't seem to remember. If I had to guess I'd say the numbers don't indicate rank. Remember the not nice looking scars/burns Grimjow retained when his number got removed?

Imagine this situation: A new Espada shows up, who's powerlevel would rank him 3rd. Then all numbers below him (old #3-#9; #10 is kicked out) would have to get together for a little tatoo session to fix up their new numbers. Seems a little impractical to me.

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Was it actually stated that the Espada number equals rank among themselves? I can't seem to remember. If I had to guess I'd say the numbers don't indicate rank. Remember the not nice looking scars/burns Grimjow retained when his number got removed?

Imagine this situation: A new Espada shows up, who's powerlevel would rank him 3rd. Then all numbers below him (old #3-#9; #10 is kicked out) would have to get together for a little tatoo session to fix up their new numbers. Seems a little impractical to me.

Yeah it does indicate the rank and hierarchy of an arrancar in espada , Aizen himself gives ranks . When Grim slayed Luppi the 6 tatoo reappeared .

Synopsis of Grim

EDIT : Junichi Suwabe ( Greed FMA ) maybe Grim's seiyu , he played Grim in Bleach Wii: Shiraha Kirameku Rinbukyoku , Heat the Soul 4 may get the part

[AmbiDextrose]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Yeah it does indicate the rank and hierarchy of an arrancar in espada , Aizen himself gives ranks . When Grim slayed Luppi the 6 tatoo reappeared

Just a little correction- Grimjow asked Orihime to restore his rank/number tatoo before running through Luppi and obliterating him with a Cero.

[striderm]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Yeah it does indicate the rank and hierarchy of an arrancar in espada , Aizen himself gives ranks . When Grim slayed Luppi the 6 tatoo reappeared .

Synopsis of Grim

EDIT : Junichi Suwabe ( Greed FMA ) maybe Grim's seiyu , he played Grim in Bleach Wii: Shiraha Kirameku Rinbukyoku , Heat the Soul 4 may get the part

He also played Seymour in FFX. If he's in even 1 game he'll be the anime but he's in 2, he's dead set into the anime.

[ritalman]

And prince of tennis' Atobe Keigo? Yay, I love this VA!!
Not sure it fits Grim's character though, but we'll see.

[Zu Ra]

On the same note

Grim : Junichi Suwabe

Spoiler for list:

Fuuma Monou in X/1999
Yoshiyuki Kojima in Chobits
Toshimaru Yoshida in Peacemaker Kurogane
Atobe Keigo in The Prince of Tennis
Michel/Great Michel in Demashita! Powerpuff Girls Z
Hirofumi Nonaka in DearS
Ren Maaka in Karin
Sting Oakley in Gundam Seed Destiny
Greed in Full Metal Alchemist
Seymour Guado in Final Fantasy X & Final Fantasy X-2(flashback)
Tseng in Last Order -Final Fantasy VII- & Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children
Tim in Transformers Galaxy force
Katana in Gad Guard
Koji Fujiyoshi in Great Teacher Onizuka
Archer in Fate/stay night (TV)
Friagne in Shakugan no Shana
Nakita Kuramitsu in Tenchi Muyo! OVA 3rd series
Alex Smith in Gravion Zwei
Otori Kyouya in Ouran High School Host Club drama CDs
Takakura Kyosuke in Nana (anime)
Omega Zero in Mega Man Zero 3 and Mega Man ZX.
Grimmjow Jaggerjack in Bleach Wii: Shiraha Kirameku Rinbukyoku
Grimmjow Jaggerjack in Bleach: Heat the Soul 4

Ulqi : Daisuke Namikawa ( Kami Sama Saiyuki Reload )

Spoiler for list:

Agatha Christie's Great Detectives Poirot and Marple (Constable Hearst, Chibo)
Arc the Lad (Elk)
Bakumatsu Kikansetsu Irohanihoheto (Akizuki Yōjirō)
BECK (Yukio Tanaka)
Beyblade G-Revolution (Hitoshi Kinomiya)
Black Lagoon (Rock)
Detective Conan (Shiro Ogata)
Dokkoida?! (Suzuo Sakurazaki/Dokkoida)
Full Metal Panic!: The Second Raid (Leonard Testarossa)
Gantz (Kei Kurono)
Gilgamesh (Tatsuya Madoka, Terumichi Madoka)
Hi no Tori (Phoenix) (Masato Yamanobe, Takeru)
Honey and Clover (Rokutarō)
Ikki Tousen (Toutaku Chuuei)
Kero Kero Chime (Aoi)
Kyo Kara Maoh! (Ryan)
Maburaho (Mitsuaki Nanba)
Naruto (Sumaru)
Okusama wa Joshikousei (Sonoda-sensei)
Onegai Twins! (Maiku Kamishiro)
Prince of Tennis (Chotaro Otori)
Ray the Animation (Koichi)
Saiunkoku Monogatari (Eigetsu To)
Saiyuki Reload (Kami-sama)
SD Gundam Force (Guneagle, Hogaremaru)
Utawarerumono (Benawi)
The Third (Iks)
Tsubasa Chronicle (Fay D. Flourite)
Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters (Ryota Kajiki)

[Lotiman]

Ishida sure powered up! I wonder what will Sado shows us?