2012-08-02, 09:10 | Link #801 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cyberjaya, Malaysia
Age: 38
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There are another two people who believed that Yoshiharu came from the future (Frois and Bontenmaru).
Spoiler for Vol 3:
<----------Currently at vol 4. How the hell did you guys find the time to read?
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Last edited by justpassingby; 2012-08-02 at 11:27. Reason: grammars :P |
2012-08-02, 11:23 | Link #805 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: U.S.
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Quote:
Well, in my case, I've been interested in the series since last year and has been reading the Chinese fan-subs for a while in hope of the series to get picked up. Finally I my wish when the anime starts, now I just need to wait until they release a few volumes and I can order them online.... Quote:
As far as I know: Spoiler for 1::
Spoiler for 2::
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2012-08-02, 12:12 | Link #806 | |
100% Tsun... 0% Dere
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Quote:
The time traveler hence then can cause paradoxes. The key word is paradox. You light a fire in a forest and accidentally burn it down... go back to the future, the forest is gone. The tiny match u accidentally dropped has lead a ripple effect which changes history in your personal timeline. Ie.. the small flutter of a butterfly wing, can cause a typhoon on the other side of the world. (this only holds in single universe) In a multi-verse, time has already accounted for the MC to travel into a different universe and his actions were already recorded. Hence no paradox or butterfly effect. Its best not to even think of the multiverse as time travel, which is what the MC realized when people that should of died, didnt die. The multiverse (or meta-universe) is the hypothetical set of multiple possible universes (including the historical universe we consistently experience)that together comprise everything that exists and can exist: the entirety of space, time, matter, and energy as well as the physical laws and constants that describe them. Because time has already RECORDED his actions. And we are watching his story in the new universe which already recorded his actions. Time travel is a PITFA. There are too many rules you have to be bound by. Hence why paralell or multiverse rules tend to be easier to write about. Because the person who controls the multiverse is the author himself, and not history. |
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2012-08-02, 14:49 | Link #807 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
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Uh... What?
I'm sorry, but I don't think I quite understood just what your main point is... My assertion is that the butterfly effect is a mathematical phenomenon, as part of Chaos Theory, pertaining to cause and effect relationships. While it is popularly invoked in fiction depicting time travel, there is no actual direct relationship. If your argument is to establish that this novel depicts a parallel universe rather than any real time travel, then I do agree with that (the fact that it's Nobuna and not NobunaGA is a dead giveaway there). Are we arguing about the particularities of the definition of the term "butterfly effect" as pertaining to multiverse theory and temporal mechanics? If so, then I'll be retiring from this argument, since I do not actually see any direct connection between the two in the first place (nor do I actually have any real education on the later two subjects to be able to formulate an argument)... |
2012-08-02, 16:06 | Link #808 | |
Emperor of the Expected
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Butterfly Effect one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect Butterfly Effect two http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterf...opular_culture |
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2012-08-02, 16:10 | Link #809 |
100% Tsun... 0% Dere
Join Date: Jan 2012
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The butterfly effect.
you modify the past so when you go into the future things are different. The ripple of your actions has changed the outcome of the future in short. Multi-Universe It doesnt matter what you do, because the future isnt written yet. Nor does it matter what you do, because the future has already accounted for you being there. For the butterfly effect to apply, the MC needs to be in his own universe, with nobunaga a male. Where his actions changes the future he's in. The fact History is different B4 he even went back in time is what kills the butterfly effect. Because him being there or not wouldnt effect his real timeline, because its not even his world. Thats not the case, the MC is in a completely different universe, where the future isnt written, so him tinkering whatsoever doesnt matter. The MC is in short an Alien more so then a Time Traveler, and he ended up on a world just like the earth, with near history events, but that ISNT the MC's earth. |
2012-08-02, 16:23 | Link #810 | |
Emperor of the Expected
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Florida
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2012-08-02, 17:26 | Link #812 | |
100% Tsun... 0% Dere
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Quote:
Did the MC go back in time? YES he did... However... Its not the time he's from. Hence he himself might not even exist in the future because its not his future. Hence the butterfly effect doesn't work because we don't know if the time and universe he's from was already drafted with him being there. Its not a butterfly if time has already recorded it. theres also that one occurance where a general was suposed to die, yet she ran away to China! this was one of the points according to the spoiler which lead the MC to believe, maybe things arent exactly like the universe he came from, and his foresight might be over. In short.. and last comment about this time thing.. as its complicated. For it to be a butterfly effect, it has to be his future, not a random future on a world far far away. Which multipul universe states he is. Basically the butterfly effect only works if ur on the same disk as your real universe, and breaks apart the moment u step onto a different universe. The ripples wont reach the other disk. And we dont know if history has recorded him coming onto the other disk and him being part of that universe which was already written. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mu...-_level_II.svg Because Physics can even change once u step onto a different disk. Even Magic is possible, hence the term, alternate universe. You can even see a Purple Flying Hippo once u change disk, or Barny the purple dinosaur could be a serial killer even. Last edited by aigomorla; 2012-08-02 at 18:15. |
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2012-08-02, 19:11 | Link #814 | |
Emperor of the Expected
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Florida
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The butterfly you speak of isn't the one I am talking about. You did read my post closely right. |
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2012-08-02, 23:57 | Link #815 | ||
100% Tsun... 0% Dere
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Quote:
yes i did reaper... Your going off this notion here: Therefore, no one who travels into the past could ever return to the same version of reality he or she had come from and could have therefore not been able to travel back in time in the first place, which would create a phenomenon known as time paradox. However... my point is, he never went back in time in his own reality. (he's not a true time travel, but a multiverse hopper? slider?) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliders He showed up at a completely different reality in which the past he went to never existed. So the butterfly effect in both definitions cant happen because ur not the start of the ripple, instead ur being forced to ride a pre-existing ripple, because your not keeping to the same disk of reality at origin. (im gonna call each universe a plate) In order for the butterfly effect to happen, it has to be his reality originally which he went back to. Instead the MC is taken to a reality which isnt his own, meaning its not his past, and therefore its not his original future. Also you cant say the MC doesnt exist in history in the current reality at present. Meaning... there is no "proof" that the plate he's on right now wasn't already written with him coming from a different plate, and the MC just following destiny as history recorded it on that plate. In short you need to stay on your original plate, and fiddle with the past to warp the future for the butterfly effect to happen, creating a branching plate from the original plate with different results. Not be taken to a completely new plate where the MC was dumped at start. Hence the MC is free from any consequences with the future, or even paradox, because once again, he NEVER existed nor did he come from the future on the current plate. It was the future from another plate, which this plate shares similarities. Gah... u made me talk about this again. Quote:
Meh dont worry, it was mostly a debate with time paradox's and time theory in which people assumed the MC was bound by. Last edited by aigomorla; 2012-08-03 at 00:27. |
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2012-08-03, 00:59 | Link #816 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
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Sigh...
Okay, I think I see where this argument is originating... It seems that your assertion is that the term "butterfly effect" is something that only applies in cases of time travel... My assertion is that the term "butterfly effect" has nothing to do with time travel or multiverse theory. Rather, it is a conceptual term within the bounds of Chaos theory, which is a field of mathematical study (which also has nothing to do with temporal mechanics or multiverse theory). Is this where the breakdown in understanding is coming from? |
2012-08-03, 02:05 | Link #818 | |
100% Tsun... 0% Dere
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Quote:
Because ur saying his actions are causing a ripple which will effect the future as he knew it. Even if we ignore time travel aspect, you still need to start at the same foci and branch out. The problem is, the future in the plate he's at never existed, nor did he come from the future in the current plate. Its a completely new plate where his existance never occured until he was dropped in. (unless the author later tells us, history (literature) was changed over the time and forgotten and made those females into male.) <--- then yes butterfly effect and grandfather paradox, and tempist fugit would apply Chaos theory states A can goto Z T Y D Z but the thing is your starting point is always A where it branches in a random and unpredictable pattern. The MC is not anywhere close to A, nor Z T Y D or any letter for that matter. He is at 1. Hence why i said its best to think he didnt really time travel, but universe warp. |
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2012-08-03, 02:16 | Link #819 | |
Happy-End Totalitarian
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Quote:
I will agree though that in the case of the specific initial conditions, that enough deviations exist that chaos theory and its derivatives may not be applicable here. |
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Tags |
action, alternate universe, ecchi, fake harem, fantasia bunko, ga bunko, harem, historical, romance, sengoku jidai, shounen, true harem |
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