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OverNOut · 2013-04-13, 09:34

Denting its course is redirecting to a certain degree at least and keep in mind Misaka hasn't slept or eaten for days before she fought Mugino so she wasn't at her top form.
Also I doubt Meltdowner actually travels at the speed of light since Misaka still could dodge them. Although she could sense Meltdowner coming, if it was moving at the speed of light then even if she did sensed it coming it would have reached her already especially since she dodged them at point blank range.

kagato3 · 2013-04-13, 10:02

Misaka is just about the worst opponent that Mugino can have. Mugino fires negatively charged beams and Misaka at rest has a natural aura of negatively charged energy around her that is shown to get stronger as she gets stressed. So even at rest completly caught unaware the force of her atack will be dampend. It's pretty much magnet on a CRT with the right strength and field layout Mugino could never even be able to hit her. Oh and Misaka should also be able to tell exactly when and where Mugino is going to fire as her "radar" (it's more of being able to feel the EM fields around her) would detect it as soon as Mugino even starts building the charge to fire

tsunade666 · 2013-04-13, 10:22

^just like that.

Misaka can detect it and can analyze the course of fire so she can prepare before its actually fired. And I can't picture a ray of light not to travel as fast as light.

Its different from railgun who fires shells. Its just light or wave particle.

Haigon · 2013-04-13, 10:33

In the opening Mugino uses more than one beam once without the silicon card, so don't take it much serious.

OverNOut · 2013-04-13, 10:33

It may look like a ray of light but it is still electrons being fired and nothing except light can move at the speed of light.
Even if she could detect and prepare, I doubt the human reaction time is fast enough to avoid an attack at light speed unless there's a long lag time for Mugino to charge her Meltdowner.

@Haigon, Mugino can fire a few Meltdowners without the silicon card. It's a round 4 or 5.

desrtsku · 2013-04-13, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverNOut

It may look like a ray of light but it is still electrons being fired and nothing except light can move at the speed of light.

What do you think particle accelerators are for? O.o

Anyway, I too don't think her attacks are light speed but it's should still theoretically be really freaking fast ...

tsunade666 · 2013-04-13, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haigon

In the opening Mugino uses more than one beam once without the silicon card, so don't take it much serious.

the silicon card are used for scattering the beams of light. She can fire multiple of beams of light but with the silicon card she can scatter a one beam into multiple beam but it doesn't mean she can't fire multiples of it.

Haigon · 2013-04-13, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

the silicon card are used for scattering the beams of light. She can fire multiple of beams of light but with the silicon card she can scatter a one beam into multiple beam but it doesn't mean she can't fire multiples of it.

Really? I don't recall where she shoots many at once, only with the card

Spoiler for volume 15:

Awrya · 2013-04-13, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverNOut

It may look like a ray of light but it is still electrons being fired and nothing except light can move at the speed of light.
Even if she could detect and prepare, I doubt the human reaction time is fast enough to avoid an attack at light speed unless there's a long lag time for Mugino to charge her Meltdowner.

Even if they're at the speed of light, Mugino's Meltdown travels in a straight line, if Misaka knows hers and Mugino's position she can prepare in advance since the beam incapable of curving.
Just like how Touma picks up signs when and where she shoots her railgun, Misaka may sense where Mugino fires her beam.
If no human could react to her Meltdown, I'm pretty sure she'd have defeated Kakine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haigon

Really? I don't recall where she shoots many at once, only with the card

Spoiler for volume 15:

Railgun manga, Ch.29 and 30. Since Kamachi writes it, it can be considered canon I guess.
At the very least he'd write out Misaka vs Mugino in detail.

OverNOut · 2013-04-13, 11:33

^Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?
All I'm saying is that Meltdowner does not travel at the speed of light. It is probably faster than Misaka's Railgun but not light speed otherwise it would be near impossible to avoid.

@Haigon, Mugino probably only fired one Meltdowner at that time due to her arrogance.

desrtsku · 2013-04-13, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverNOut

^Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?
All I'm saying is that Meltdowner does not travel at the speed of light. It is probably faster than Misaka's Railgun but not light speed otherwise it would be near impossible to avoid.

Have you ever heard of the principle of aim dodging? I Miko can feel the attack coming a fraction of second before the actual shot was fired then it's doesn't matter how fast it is if it's aiming at the wrong place.

Awrya · 2013-04-13, 11:47

@OverNOut Agreeing, sorry, probably got some quotes from this and other threads messed up in my head.

Miraluka · 2013-04-13, 11:52

Mugino can fire about 4 beams or one big beam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awrya

If no human could react to her Meltdown, I'm pretty sure she'd have defeated Kakine.

Kakine is inmune to damage so even if Mugino hit him he will walk away as if a wind touched him.

Marina2 · 2013-04-13, 12:10

Okey, let me ask some reverse questions

1. Can Mugino bent Misaka's lighting attack?
2. Can Mugino Meltdown barrier/shield defend Misaka's lighting attack?
3. Can Mugino Meltdown barrier/shield defend Misaka's Railgun attack?

It seems many people are looking forward to Railgun vs Meltdown. I'm actually looking forward to Mikasa vs Frenda fight in animated version more. Especially, the part where Misaka get fooled by Frenda 's bluff and get kicked around. (LOL)

Haigon · 2013-04-13, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina2

Okey, let me ask some reverse questions

1. Can Mugino bent Misaka's lighting attack?

She shows to have limited control on Misaka's electricity.

Rovert10 · 2013-04-13, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverNOut

^Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?
All I'm saying is that Meltdowner does not travel at the speed of light. It is probably faster than Misaka's Railgun but not light speed otherwise it would be near impossible to avoid.

@Haigon, Mugino probably only fired one Meltdowner at that time due to her arrogance.

I would just throw the cinematic time excuse here.

Also she uses electrons as a means for her Meltdowner I believe.

Also havn't you heard of something called wave-particle duality.
Light has matter but it is also a wave. Light moves at 3.0x10^8 m/s in a vacuum.
Also Electrons move essentially at the speed of light. Okay maybe 99.999999% of light's max speed in a vacuum.

You can slow down light by a significant degree sure it's still 10^6-8 meters per second but still manipulative. The light surrounding you does not move at max speed as it is slowed by the air and glass but you arn't able to detect that.

Thus even if Meltdowner does not move at the "speed of light", it is still a very fast moving beam unable detected by the average human without any kind of warning system before hand. You are able to dodge if you can predict her movements. Isn't that what Hamazura does?

Awrya · 2013-04-13, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Kakine is inmune to damage so even if Mugino hit him he will walk away as if a wind touched him.

I mean the fight in Vol.15, before Kakine got a Dark Matter body.
I doubt he'd tank Mugino's attack with his human body.

Sumeragi · 2013-04-13, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awrya

If no human could react to her Meltdown, I'm pretty sure she'd have defeated Kakine.

Dark Matter > Electrons

Miraluka · 2013-04-13, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awrya

I mean the fight in Vol.15, before Kakine got a Dark Matter body.
I doubt he'd tank Mugino's attack with his human body.

I think he can. Accelerator throw a lot of different attacks on Kakine and he walked away from them unharmed.

Its been implied Mugino fought against him at least 3 times before and lost to him.

You know why?

Dark Matter is a game breaker power.

He just bends the laws of the energy behind Meltdowner and makes it useless so you would have Mugino endlessly firing beams at him and wondering what is he doing wrong while getting pissed off.

desrtsku · 2013-04-13, 12:45

It was even mentioned in v22 that Dark Matter can reflect metldowner back ... IIRC

2013-04-13, 10:02	Link #42
kagato3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	Misaka is just about the worst opponent that Mugino can have. Mugino fires negatively charged beams and Misaka at rest has a natural aura of negatively charged energy around her that is shown to get stronger as she gets stressed. So even at rest completly caught unaware the force of her atack will be dampend. It's pretty much magnet on a CRT with the right strength and field layout Mugino could never even be able to hit her. Oh and Misaka should also be able to tell exactly when and where Mugino is going to fire as her "radar" (it's more of being able to feel the EM fields around her) would detect it as soon as Mugino even starts building the charge to fire __________________ Higurashi: Its a bit like watching a trainwreck, except you keep getting to see different trains wrecking with roughly the same passengers, into a variety of different objects. Also, the trains are driven by monkeys. On LSD.

2013-04-13, 10:22	Link #43
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	^just like that. Misaka can detect it and can analyze the course of fire so she can prepare before its actually fired. And I can't picture a ray of light not to travel as fast as light. Its different from railgun who fires shells. Its just light or wave particle. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2013-04-13, 11:47	Link #52
Awrya U mad? Join Date: Apr 2012	@OverNOut Agreeing, sorry, probably got some quotes from this and other threads messed up in my head. __________________

2013-04-13, 12:10	Link #54
Marina2 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006	Okey, let me ask some reverse questions 1. Can Mugino bent Misaka's lighting attack? 2. Can Mugino Meltdown barrier/shield defend Misaka's lighting attack? 3. Can Mugino Meltdown barrier/shield defend Misaka's Railgun attack? It seems many people are looking forward to Railgun vs Meltdown. I'm actually looking forward to Mikasa vs Frenda fight in animated version more. Especially, the part where Misaka get fooled by Frenda 's bluff and get kicked around. (LOL) __________________

2013-04-13, 12:45	Link #60
desrtsku Nympholept Join Date: May 2011 Location: Wonderland. Age: 31	It was even mentioned in v22 that Dark Matter can reflect metldowner back ... IIRC __________________

2013-04-13, 09:34	Link #41
OverNOut The Obsever Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Classified	Denting its course is redirecting to a certain degree at least and keep in mind Misaka hasn't slept or eaten for days before she fought Mugino so she wasn't at her top form. Also I doubt Meltdowner actually travels at the speed of light since Misaka still could dodge them. Although she could sense Meltdowner coming, if it was moving at the speed of light then even if she did sensed it coming it would have reached her already especially since she dodged them at point blank range.

2013-04-13, 10:33	Link #44
Haigon Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Recife	In the opening Mugino uses more than one beam once without the silicon card, so don't take it much serious.

2013-04-13, 10:33	Link #45
OverNOut The Obsever Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Classified	It may look like a ray of light but it is still electrons being fired and nothing except light can move at the speed of light. Even if she could detect and prepare, I doubt the human reaction time is fast enough to avoid an attack at light speed unless there's a long lag time for Mugino to charge her Meltdowner. @Haigon, Mugino can fire a few Meltdowners without the silicon card. It's a round 4 or 5.

2013-04-13, 11:33	Link #50
OverNOut The Obsever Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Classified	^Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? All I'm saying is that Meltdowner does not travel at the speed of light. It is probably faster than Misaka's Railgun but not light speed otherwise it would be near impossible to avoid. @Haigon, Mugino probably only fired one Meltdowner at that time due to her arrogance.