AnimeSuki Forums

speedyexpress48 · 2013-05-23, 01:53

God, I just love how people on ANN dismiss series as "harming anime's reputation in the mainstream" or whatever. Makes me laugh my ass off.

In all seriousness, anime as a medium was never "mainstream". People are deluding themselves in thinking it ever was. And cutting up a show 4kids style doesn't make a show mainstream, it just pisses off the fanbase.

The problem is that in order for something to be really mainstream, you have to have lots of cash, something that a lot of the public can accept, and lots of luck after. That first part doesn't exist for anime, and no one wants to make it exist because of part 2. No one's going to invest a lot in anime when it's probably gonna fail.

0utf0xZer0 · 2013-05-23, 02:41

Personally, I'm not averse to the idea that the content of many current show, as well as their marketing, has the potential to cause the fandom serious image problems. Explaining OreImo to people with little experience in anime is not a comfortable experience and OreImo is hardly outrageous compared to many shows.

However:
a) These shows are irrelevant to the mainstream.
b) Sensationalizing them doesn't help keep them that way.
c) Sensationalizing the negative elements of these shows generates negative stereotypes about fans. Including me. Which is annoying.

(Also, to be honest I tend to find ranting and sensationalism annoying in and of itself regardless of the image it generates and I've gotten wearier of it over time.)

Tl;dr I'm not sure what the solution to protecting the fandom's image is, but it sure as hell isn't sensationalizing the content of shows.

cyth · 2013-05-23, 02:58

Maybe you guys need to take a chill pill. As much as you want the fandom to be a collection of jolly fellows who hold hands together while fapping to the latest Saber figures that Danny Choo posted about, "they" have the right to express whatever criticism they wish to express. Most of the time it's self-degrading as well because "they" can't help being part of this fandom, so they joke about it. Like, I think Zac Bertschy is a pile of goal-post-moving sack of hypocritical shit, but there's something genuine about when he says people take opinions about cartoons too goddamn seriously.

Sheba · 2013-05-23, 03:27

there is also the part about "fun". Your idea of fun is likely NOT "their" fun. Maybe "they" derives much fun from watching Tyrion Lannister trolling people than watching Takeshi Castle style of warfare. I am more than sure that "they" have watched what you want them to watch in hope to understand what is "your" fun. But, it's all lost on them, because they cannot bring themselves to be entertained by it. Moreover, I'd like to ask you, the ones who want "them" to get along with you, if you have given a chance and the time to watch what they do? As for myself, I have watched anime from both sides of the spectrum. So I can understand what "they" are getting at and I empathize with them.

Archon_Wing · 2013-05-23, 03:35

I agree that people should be allowed to express any criticism, no matter how stupid it sounds. But one must reap what they sow.

0utf0xZer0 · 2013-05-23, 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyth

Maybe you guys need to take a chill pill.

If only such a thing existed. Granted, I seldom get worked up - especially now that I've grown weary of so many of the usual debates - but I have a bad habit of feeling compelled to give my opinion and spending far, far too much time making sure I articulate it very well. Even though it's seldom worthwhile to do so - realistically, nobody I've ever meet at a real life event has gone "Wow, you like anime x? What a creep!". Only people who were weirded out by my being an anime fan in general

(That said, I still feel compelled to say more about one thing. I find it extremely odd how some fans can express stereotypes about the fans who like certain shows, when none of the people they know in real life who watch those shows match the stereotype. It's like, don't these people notice anything wrong with this picture?

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

there is also the part about "fun". Your idea of fun is likely NOT "their" fun. Maybe "they" derives much fun from watching Tyrion Lannister trolling people than watching Takeshi Castle style of warfare. I am more than sure that "they" have watched what you want them to watch in hope to understand what is "your" fun. But, it's all lost on them, because they cannot bring themselves to be entertained by it. Moreover, I'd like to ask you, the ones who want "them" to get along with you, if you have given a chance and the time to watch what they do? As for myself, I have watched anime from both sides of the spectrum. So I can understand what "they" are getting at and I empathize with them.

I seldom hear anyone really rip into Game of Thrones in a rant. Maybe that's a matter of the circles I frequent, but I think it has more to do with GoT not being consider uncool and effemminate like the stuff I like is (okay, some of the stuff I like since I'm a GoT fan too) and hence an accepted target. Geekdom has it's hierarchy too and sore losers are an inevitable outcome.

Midonin · 2013-05-23, 18:26

I understand that late night anime is a collection of niches. (And even some anime that doesn't fall into that category can be a niche), but my complaint has nothing to do with the content of the shows, but more the way the shows are enjoyed. The ones linked to in that post have things that the shows I like don't - they fit the percieved cultural definition of "coolness", they have cultural cache, critical acclaim - it's "okay" to like them, even if people may look at you weird for being an anime fan.

But when one is being looked down at by other anime fans, that's what I have a problem with. I express my love for what I like with the same passion that fans of anything else would - I see what memes pixiv creates, enthuse about the music and try to analyze the content no matter how much of a curio it seems to be. (And I like curios, though even my definition of what a "curio" is would be someone else's "generic" descriptor.)

I don't want the things I enjoy to be called "guilty pleasures" at best or only enjoyed if they're a "parody" or the previous "can be taken seriously", "realistic", etc. It feels like posturing. I don't want my taste for light hearted and comedic works (that, yes, have a primarily, if not entirely, female cast, I'm not going to lie about that) to only be able to be enjoyed by the greater fandom through a lens of ironic detachment. I'm not asking for everyone to love them, but I am asking to be treated with a greater level of respect.

Sheba · 2013-05-23, 20:05

How about you watch them and understand that they fit another kind of fun?
Also, there is consistently complains about being looked down. But is painting the more "serious" side of the anime fandom as a bunch of joyless grumpy old men who lost the meaning of "having fun" really any better? I think they really gets entertainment from something else, that is not as "frivolous". i.e : The guys who are playing chess are having as much fun as those who plays Twister, because their fun is about outsmarting the other guy, trying to adapt the plan to the other guy's plan. It's a whole another brand of fun.

0utf0xZer0 · 2013-05-24, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

How about you watch them and understand that they fit another kind of fun?
Also, there is consistently complains about being looked down. But is painting the more "serious" side of the anime fandom as a bunch of joyless grumpy old men who lost the meaning of "having fun" really any better? I think they really gets entertainment from something else, that is not as "frivolous". i.e : The guys who are playing chess are having as much fun as those who plays Twister, because their fun is about outsmarting the other guy, trying to adapt the plan to the other guy's plan. It's a whole another brand of fun.

I don't paint people as angry old men because of the shows they watch. I paint them as angry nerds because of the vitriol they throw.

I don't hate everyone whose attitude I find caustic. For example, Reckoner and I have managed to negotiate a mutual respect of sorts, in part because he takes my positions seriously. I'd say that's the exception and not the rule though.

2013-05-23, 01:53	Link #101
speedyexpress48 Boo, you whore Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Smokin that CO bong	God, I just love how people on ANN dismiss series as "harming anime's reputation in the mainstream" or whatever. Makes me laugh my ass off. In all seriousness, anime as a medium was never "mainstream". People are deluding themselves in thinking it ever was. And cutting up a show 4kids style doesn't make a show mainstream, it just pisses off the fanbase. The problem is that in order for something to be really mainstream, you have to have lots of cash, something that a lot of the public can accept, and lots of luck after. That first part doesn't exist for anime, and no one wants to make it exist because of part 2. No one's going to invest a lot in anime when it's probably gonna fail. __________________ Your Friendly Bitcoin Trader\|Go Avs/Broncos

2013-05-23, 02:41	Link #102
0utf0xZer0 Pretentious moe scholar Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver, Canada Age: 37	Personally, I'm not averse to the idea that the content of many current show, as well as their marketing, has the potential to cause the fandom serious image problems. Explaining OreImo to people with little experience in anime is not a comfortable experience and OreImo is hardly outrageous compared to many shows. However: a) These shows are irrelevant to the mainstream. b) Sensationalizing them doesn't help keep them that way. c) Sensationalizing the negative elements of these shows generates negative stereotypes about fans. Including me. Which is annoying. (Also, to be honest I tend to find ranting and sensationalism annoying in and of itself regardless of the image it generates and I've gotten wearier of it over time.) Tl;dr I'm not sure what the solution to protecting the fandom's image is, but it sure as hell isn't sensationalizing the content of shows. __________________ Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.

2013-05-23, 03:27	Link #104
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	there is also the part about "fun". Your idea of fun is likely NOT "their" fun. Maybe "they" derives much fun from watching Tyrion Lannister trolling people than watching Takeshi Castle style of warfare. I am more than sure that "they" have watched what you want them to watch in hope to understand what is "your" fun. But, it's all lost on them, because they cannot bring themselves to be entertained by it. Moreover, I'd like to ask you, the ones who want "them" to get along with you, if you have given a chance and the time to watch what they do? As for myself, I have watched anime from both sides of the spectrum. So I can understand what "they" are getting at and I empathize with them. __________________ Last edited by Sheba; 2013-05-23 at 03:38.

2013-05-23, 20:05	Link #108
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	How about you watch them and understand that they fit another kind of fun? Also, there is consistently complains about being looked down. But is painting the more "serious" side of the anime fandom as a bunch of joyless grumpy old men who lost the meaning of "having fun" really any better? I think they really gets entertainment from something else, that is not as "frivolous". i.e : The guys who are playing chess are having as much fun as those who plays Twister, because their fun is about outsmarting the other guy, trying to adapt the plan to the other guy's plan. It's a whole another brand of fun. __________________

2013-05-23, 02:58	Link #103
cyth Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Age: 38	Maybe you guys need to take a chill pill. As much as you want the fandom to be a collection of jolly fellows who hold hands together while fapping to the latest Saber figures that Danny Choo posted about, "they" have the right to express whatever criticism they wish to express. Most of the time it's self-degrading as well because "they" can't help being part of this fandom, so they joke about it. Like, I think Zac Bertschy is a pile of goal-post-moving sack of hypocritical shit, but there's something genuine about when he says people take opinions about cartoons too goddamn seriously.

2013-05-23, 18:26	Link #107
Midonin Last Engage Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Florida	I understand that late night anime is a collection of niches. (And even some anime that doesn't fall into that category can be a niche), but my complaint has nothing to do with the content of the shows, but more the way the shows are enjoyed. The ones linked to in that post have things that the shows I like don't - they fit the percieved cultural definition of "coolness", they have cultural cache, critical acclaim - it's "okay" to like them, even if people may look at you weird for being an anime fan. But when one is being looked down at by other anime fans, that's what I have a problem with. I express my love for what I like with the same passion that fans of anything else would - I see what memes pixiv creates, enthuse about the music and try to analyze the content no matter how much of a curio it seems to be. (And I like curios, though even my definition of what a "curio" is would be someone else's "generic" descriptor.) I don't want the things I enjoy to be called "guilty pleasures" at best or only enjoyed if they're a "parody" or the previous "can be taken seriously", "realistic", etc. It feels like posturing. I don't want my taste for light hearted and comedic works (that, yes, have a primarily, if not entirely, female cast, I'm not going to lie about that) to only be able to be enjoyed by the greater fandom through a lens of ironic detachment. I'm not asking for everyone to love them, but I am asking to be treated with a greater level of respect.