Attack on Titan - Character Discussion - Mikasa

[kitten320]

Armin also cares just as much. But do you see how different he and Mikasa go about same subject?

I don't like Mikasa's ways, simple as that.

[darklegends8]

Annie's "ways" are much worse. Just saying.

[kitten320]

Let me remind you that Annie is a villain and Mikasa is not.

Because lots of people seem to forget this crucial factor.

And as I said I hate clingy people. Annie is not clingy, that alone is enough for me to like her more than Mikasa.

[DevilHighDxD]

^ And you said it yourself why so many people dislike her and like Mikasa more.

[kitten320]

I don't remember trying to convert Mikasa lovers into Annie lovers.

All I did is say why I don't like her same way as many people stated why they don't like Annie.

Pretty fair I think.

And now that I stated my opinion, I'll just leave this thread to Mikasa fans and your enjoyment.

[Eragon]

Oh stop fighting over who is the better character. They both already made up

http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.p...st_id=36039280

This is how you resolve arguments

[DevilHighDxD]

I like both Mikasa and Annie (Annie a bit more), I'm just asking him to hop off his fanboyism-bandwagon on Annie since it can get annoying sometime. Also image isn't working.

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

I like both Mikasa and Annie (Annie a bit more), I'm just asking him to hop off his fanboyism-bandwagon on Annie since it can get annoying sometime. Also image isn't working.

That boat can sail both ways

Put up the link since Pixiv doesn't like hotlinking.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

I like both Mikasa and Annie (Annie a bit more), I'm just asking him to hop off his fanboyism-bandwagon on Annie since it can get annoying sometime. Also image isn't working.

Excuse me?
When was the last time I talked about Annie? HUH?

I've been trying to avoid mentioning her as much as possible but people just keep bringing her in every time they get a chance like if they have no other arguments left to protect Mikasa.

So who is at fault again?

I've already have given Mikasa more points than originally and people are still not satisfied? GROW UP and accept that not everyone likes Mikasa same way as I accepted that not everyone likes Annie!

So stop calling me bias when you guys are ten times worse

The only problem I have with Annie haters is when they call her an ultimate evil with no redeeming qualities what is a complete bull crap.
There are 100 times worse villains out there in fiction. Joffrey is one of them. Voldemort also has no redeeming qualities either. They only killed and tortured people, nothing more. Joffrey is a crybaby coward to boot.

Yes Annie killed people, yes she is at fault, yes she needs to be stopped but she is not an ultimate evil. She did good things as well, something I can't say about those 2.
You can hate her and call her bad for most part but you can't call her the worst of the worst.

Mikasa fans on the other hand seem to have problem with every single minor detail people seem not to like.
The only thing I'm complaining about right now is her clinginess and you are still not happy?
I'm sorry to break it to you people but she is not perfect so deal with it.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Excuse me?
When was the last time I talked about Annie? HUH?

I've been trying to avoid mentioning her as much as possible but people just keep bringing her in every time they get a chance like if they have no other arguments left to protect Mikasa.

So who is at fault again?

I've already have given Mikasa more points than originally and people are still not satisfied? GROW UP and accept that not everyone likes Mikasa same way as I accepted that not everyone likes Annie!

So stop calling me bias when you guys are ten times worse

The only problem I have with Annie haters is when they call her an ultimate evil with no redeeming qualities what is a complete bull crap.
There are 100 times worse villains out there in fiction. Joffrey is one of them. Voldemort also has no redeeming qualities either. They only killed and tortured people, nothing more. Joffrey is a crybaby coward to boot.

Yes Annie killed people, yes she is at fault, yes she needs to be stopped but she is not an ultimate evil. She did good things as well, something I can't say about those 2.
You can hate her and call her bad for most part but you can't call her the worst of the worst.

Mikasa fans on the other hand seem to have problem with every single minor detail people seem not to like.
The only thing I'm complaining about right now is her clinginess and you are still not happy?
I'm sorry to break it to you people but she is not perfect so deal with it.

I like Annie as a character, but you have to realize that all she's done so far has been evil, there's not sugarcoating it. Annie kills in order to achieve some unknown goal. Mikasa kills to protect. In fact I think the only human mikasa has ever killed was that one thug who was involved in her parents' murder and was choking Eren...

[ahlecks]

So...all your apparent dislike for Mikasa is due to her clingy-ness? Alright got it, loud and clear. I guess people who obsessively tries to protect whatever family they have left after losing it twice and almost losing the last one, are worse than the people who obsessively pursue an ambiguous goal to change the world, even if you have to murder a lot of people for it.

Though I guess there's also the fact that all Annie ever did was give it everything that she has, to kidnap the only person that she needs to achieve her goals, murdering few nameless mooks aside from Levi's squad notwithstanding, while all Mikasa ever did was give it everything she had, to protect the only person she probably has, murdering a ton of titans and garnering the disdain of said protectorate. Million is a statistic indeed.

Also, you mentioned how Eren doesn't like Mikasa's mindset, but here's a question for you, do you think Mikasa likes Eren's mindset? No, don't answer that, Mikasa being who she is, most likely won't question Eren's mindset. But, you have to remember, Mikasa didn't really want to be in the military, she followed Eren, because she fears that his obsession with titans will cost him his life, which you know, barring his titan-shifting abilities, totally happened. And the reason he went all rage mode on the titan, he watched his friend die, which you know, is pretty similar to how another person will act on the same situation, and despite that, Eren is not being called out on it. I guess a difference of scale has everything to do with it.

I'm not saying I like clingy people, and no, despite my preference for yandere in media, I don't like them in real life. But that doesn't mean I don't see where they are coming from.

You know, while one could say that Annie's goal is sympathetic enough to excuse some of what she did, it's all still for something not entirely clear. It's a disconnect for me, sure she wants to probably change the world, but are all those deaths really necessary? Okay, in another anime or another game, when everything is shown, you can see why it's necessary, but until then, all you're seeing are dead bodies. It's the reason why, despite my sympathy for Annie's cause, her actions still leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

Mikasa on the other hand is simple, frustratingly so, all she wants is something trivial, to protect Eren, to stay by his side and probably even for him to return those same feelings. Sure she most likely gonna quit military if Eren quits, despite her capacity to help the whole world, but is that really so bad? Ah well, don't answer that, that's a whole different bag of worms, but for me, the reason I am much more empathetic with Mikasa, is that I'm the same as her at the end of the day, all I want is to protect that little world I have, I don't have lofty goals nor do I have ambitious dreams, as long as I can be with the people that constitutes that small world, I'm happy. Then again, this could garner me the disdain of the whole world for being selfish.

[kitten320]

And I'm cool with that because sadly I can't deny all those bodies. It's a fact which I can't argue and puts Annie on a bad side. Otherwise she would not be a villain.

However, as I said she is not as bad as those 2. She showed compassion, she showed she cares, she has her own ideals about the world which are worth considering, she coached Eren, she distanced herself from the victims and etc.

If she were like those two then Armin would be dead, she would not bother with Eren, she would not try to distance herself and her ideals about the world would be disgusting.

Feel the difference? She could be worse and that's a fact. The fact that she is not worse is why I like her. Once she crosses those lines, I'll lose interest as well.

Lelouch from Code Geass also killed bunch of people for his own selfish goals same as Kira who started with killing murderers and ended up just being a mass murderer by killing everyone who was in his way. Yet these 2 are probably the most loved characters in anime world.

Out of the 2 I actually dislike Kira. He started as someone with whom I agreed and then turned into just one of those killers he was trying to stop. He was ready to kill anyone with no hesitation.

Annie is more sympathetic than him.

Anyway this argument is useless because you guys only look at facts while I also look at possibilities. In my eyes there is a good reason for all of this because let's be fair. Humanity is miles away from being innocent, especially if you are familiar with the manga.

Until we know full truth there is no point talking about it.

If you have anything to answer to this, take it to Annie thread. Though I honestly see no reason for that since it doesn't look like we will ever agree in near future so I think it is better to just leave it at that.

P.S. What's wrong with somebody liking a villain? Almost everyone adores Akatsuki and everyone is fine with it. Why is it wrong for me to like a villain as well?
You can't compare positive charas and villains on the same grounds.
It is the same if I were to compare a brick with flower. You can't apply same rules to both.

[GoldenLand]

Originally Posted by kitten320

I've been trying to avoid mentioning her as much as possible but people just keep bringing her in every time they get a chance like if they have no other arguments left to protect Mikasa.

You bring up Annie vs Mikasa extremely often in this thread, actually, and I think that's how the topic got introduced to the thread in the first place and is the reason why it's continued on. But that said, Darklegends8 did bring Annie up again at #262 on this page. It'd be nice to see the hatchet get dropped all around and for Annie-centric discussions to go mostly to the Annie thread rather than bleed into the Mikasa one. The characters don't occupy the same role in the story and there's no particular reason why they should be the point of comparison for each other. Though, some of the discussions in the past few pages here have been interesting and worthwhile to read; I hadn't realised it before, but Mikasa and Annie are very similar characters in some ways.

Originally Posted by Eragon

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This is how you resolve arguments

Hear, hear.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

You bring up Annie vs Mikasa extremely often in this thread, actually, and I think that's how the topic got introduced to the thread in the first place and is the reason why it's continued on. But that said, Darklegends8 did bring Annie up again at #262 on this page. It'd be nice to see the hatchet get dropped all around and for Annie-centric discussions to go mostly to the Annie thread rather than bleed into the Mikasa one. The characters don't occupy the same role in the story and there's no particular reason why they should be the point of comparison for each other. Though, some of the discussions in the past few pages here have been interesting and worthwhile to read; I hadn't realised it before, but Mikasa and Annie are very similar characters in some ways.

Spoiler for save space:

No, he/she started it way back in post 226.

I won't deny that I did talk about Annie at first and was bias but that was whole MONTH ago! Just look at the dates!

After that argument my first post here was 222! And if you read it, I'm not protecting Annie. I actually am blaming her and disagreeing with person who tried to "protect" her.

That post is followed by me actually giving Mikasa some credit! What response did I get to this? 226!

I responded, though I didn't word that argument properly. Me and lateraldeath sorted it out in PM though. She/he can confirm it.
It is the only Annie heavy post! If you read all my other responses, you'll see that I'm not fully agreeing with it any more.
I admit that I gave Mikasa less credit back then and my wording was off.

After that me and others talked purely about Mikasa but hey, guess who is back with another Annie post? And even with bigger hate?

The more credit I gave Mikasa the more flame Darklegends8 and others seem to throw at me and Annie for no reason other than clearly being butt hurt!

Same thing happened in Annie thread. Everyone said why they like/hate Annie and when I stated my opinion guess whose there?
All I said is that by my speculations (not a fact) Annie has a good reason and that she is not 100% evil. 70%-80% yes, 100% no.

Seeing that it goes nowhere I stopped responding. Since then I barely ever mentioned Annie at all in any threads. That was whole week ago!
Hey, but guess who still remained butt hurt in post 226 and can't give it a break till post 262?

If you look closely, the only times I mention Annie since then is when I'm responding to posts with her name in them, directed at me. And even then I try to keep it at minimum with every following post.

I did everything in my power to keep Annie out of this, to blame her where she clearly deserved it and even changed my opinion towards Mikasa for better.

I'm sorry but I don't see how exactly am I at fault here?


At least one good thing came out of those comparisons, people start to realize that the difference between the two is not as big as some might think. I am included among those people. Originally I saw them far more apart than I do now.

There is only one last comparison I want to make which is purely based on possibility and speculation, not a fact so take it easy.

Spoiler for manga until last episode is aired.:

Let's say that Titan shifters goal are selfish, unforgivable with no good purpose.
BUT!
If Annie does not follow the orders, something bad will happen to her father. Heck, we don't even know what happened to her mother! What then?

Technically it makes Mikasa/Annie exactly the same. Just as many Mikasa fans stated, Mikasa would kill anyone to protect Eren. And as Mikasa fans said it is fine to protect her loved one at any cost.

Are you still going to call Annie the worst? Because she killed to save her dearest person?

The only difference will be that Mikasa got lucky and never had to go to such extremes like let's say back during canon attack.

As I said it is just a speculation but one that I think should be thought about and considered before final judgement is done.

Because if it happens to be true, you'll be forced to dislike Mikasa as well or accept Annie. Your choice.

So I would really appreciate if you we could stop Annie flame here and not bring her into every freaking topic out there unless it's actually relevant.

[kitsunisan]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Anyway this argument is useless because you guys only look at facts while I also look at possibilities. In my eyes there is a good reason for all of this because let's be fair. Humanity is miles away from being innocent, especially if you are familiar with the manga.

I think that's the biggest disconnect you have with other people on the subject, most people look at what has happened, and you're looking for a reason it happened. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it's a problem when talking about it. I know you and I got into it at one point, but I think we both left the topic in good humor. Annie is an interesting character, no doubt, but whatever her reasons won't ever excuse what she's actually done in my eyes. For you, you're hoping there is a rational reason that can somehow mitigate what she's done, something that may redeem her. I can understand that. I most likely won't ever agree with you on it, but I do understand where you're coming from.

As for Mikasa's clinginess, keep this in mind with her, hopefully it'll make you a bit more understanding of her - she's had everyone she's ever loved in her life taken from her. She lost her parents when she was 10, and lost her adoptive parents soon afterwards. Eren is the only family she has left. When they're inside the walls, she's not obsessively following Eren, it's only when there's the possibility of danger that she follows him, because she knows she's stronger than he is and can protect him. She's also trying to protect herself from losing one more person. That's why I have a lot more sympathy towards Mikasa on this issue. I know if I were in her place I'd be doing the same thing.

[darklegends8]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Spoiler for save space:

No, he/she started it way back in post 226.

I won't deny that I did talk about Annie at first and was bias but that was whole MONTH ago! Just look at the dates!

After that argument my first post here was 222! And if you read it, I'm not protecting Annie. I actually am blaming her and disagreeing with person who tried to "protect" her.

That post is followed by me actually giving Mikasa some credit! What response did I get to this? 226!

I responded, though I didn't word that argument properly. Me and lateraldeath sorted it out in PM though. She/he can confirm it.
It is the only Annie heavy post! If you read all my other responses, you'll see that I'm not fully agreeing with it any more.
I admit that I gave Mikasa less credit back then and my wording was off.

After that me and others talked purely about Mikasa but hey, guess who is back with another Annie post? And even with bigger hate?

The more credit I gave Mikasa the more flame Darklegends8 and others seem to throw at me and Annie for no reason other than clearly being butt hurt!

Same thing happened in Annie thread. Everyone said why they like/hate Annie and when I stated my opinion guess whose there?
All I said is that by my speculations (not a fact) Annie has a good reason and that she is not 100% evil. 70%-80% yes, 100% no.

Seeing that it goes nowhere I stopped responding. Since then I barely ever mentioned Annie at all in any threads. That was whole week ago!
Hey, but guess who still remained butt hurt in post 226 and can't give it a break till post 262?

If you look closely, the only times I mention Annie since then is when I'm responding to posts with her name in them, directed at me. And even then I try to keep it at minimum with every following post.

I did everything in my power to keep Annie out of this, to blame her where she clearly deserved it and even changed my opinion towards Mikasa for better.

I'm sorry but I don't see how exactly am I at fault here?


At least one good thing came out of those comparisons, people start to realize that the difference between the two is not as big as some might think. I am included among those people. Originally I saw them far more apart than I do now.

There is only one last comparison I want to make which is purely based on possibility and speculation, not a fact so take it easy.

Spoiler for manga until last episode is aired.:

Let's say that Titan shifters goal are selfish, unforgivable with no good purpose.
BUT!
If Annie does not follow the orders, something bad will happen to her father. Heck, we don't even know what happened to her mother! What then?

Technically it makes Mikasa/Annie exactly the same. Just as many Mikasa fans stated, Mikasa would kill anyone to protect Eren. And as Mikasa fans said it is fine to protect her loved one at any cost.

Are you still going to call Annie the worst? Because she killed to save her dearest person?

The only difference will be that Mikasa got lucky and never had to go to such extremes like let's say back during canon attack.

As I said it is just a speculation but one that I think should be thought about and considered before final judgement is done.

Because if it happens to be true, you'll be forced to dislike Mikasa as well or accept Annie. Your choice.

So I would really appreciate if you we could stop Annie flame here and not bring her into every freaking topic out there unless it's actually relevant.

No, you are trying to protect her because you keep pushing her redeeming qualities while ignoring her bad traits or trying to see them in a good light. And the punchline - you're still doing it. By the way Kira is a terrible example because it's been stated multiple times he never aims for the cockpit, so he doesn't just go around slaughtering people. As for Lelouch, that's true, however we know his motives, as for Annie, we still don't. So you should wait until we at least know why she's crazy before riding in to protect her.

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by kitsunisan

I think that's the biggest disconnect you have with other people on the subject, most people look at what has happened, and you're looking for a reason it happened. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it's a problem when talking about it. I know you and I got into it at one point, but I think we both left the topic in good humor. Annie is an interesting character, no doubt, but whatever her reasons won't ever excuse what she's actually done in my eyes. For you, you're hoping there is a rational reason that can somehow mitigate what she's done, something that may redeem her. I can understand that. I most likely won't ever agree with you on it, but I do understand where you're coming from.

As for Mikasa's clinginess, keep this in mind with her, hopefully it'll make you a bit more understanding of her - she's had everyone she's ever loved in her life taken from her. She lost her parents when she was 10, and lost her adoptive parents soon afterwards. Eren is the only family she has left. When they're inside the walls, she's not obsessively following Eren, it's only when there's the possibility of danger that she follows him, because she knows she's stronger than he is and can protect him. She's also trying to protect herself from losing one more person. That's why I have a lot more sympathy towards Mikasa on this issue. I know if I were in her place I'd be doing the same thing.

Why is this argument brought up so many times ? She isn't anything special. There are boatloads of people who have lost everything and still are nowhere near as obsessed as her. Her impulsiveness cost Levi his combat ability.

I don't hate her or some such. I'm just irritated that her character is being wasted in such a way. She was on the brink of becoming a compelling character after Eren's "death" but they had to ruin it. I still don't get why they just didn't transition from Eren to her as a protagonist. She fits the bill anyhow. Argh, stupid cliche's ruining everything.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by kitsunisan

I think that's the biggest disconnect you have with other people on the subject, most people look at what has happened, and you're looking for a reason it happened. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it's a problem when talking about it. I know you and I got into it at one point, but I think we both left the topic in good humor. Annie is an interesting character, no doubt, but whatever her reasons won't ever excuse what she's actually done in my eyes. For you, you're hoping there is a rational reason that can somehow mitigate what she's done, something that may redeem her. I can understand that. I most likely won't ever agree with you on it, but I do understand where you're coming from.

As for Mikasa's clinginess, keep this in mind with her, hopefully it'll make you a bit more understanding of her - she's had everyone she's ever loved in her life taken from her. She lost her parents when she was 10, and lost her adoptive parents soon afterwards. Eren is the only family she has left. When they're inside the walls, she's not obsessively following Eren, it's only when there's the possibility of danger that she follows him, because she knows she's stronger than he is and can protect him. She's also trying to protect herself from losing one more person. That's why I have a lot more sympathy towards Mikasa on this issue. I know if I were in her place I'd be doing the same thing.

Finally! Someone with whom I can shake hands.

Even though our views/opinions differ they still are acceptable.

I accept what you say and have no issues with your opinion, thank you very much!

If only everyone were so understanding about this subject and differences in opinion.

[GoldenLand]

Originally Posted by kitten320

No, he/she started it way back in post 226.

Ah, yeah, point taken, I do see now it wasn't you who re-started the topic last time.

Originally Posted by kitsunisan

When they're inside the walls, she's not obsessively following Eren, it's only when there's the possibility of danger that she follows him, because she knows she's stronger than he is and can protect him.

I agree with that. I think that the situation the characters are in lend themselves towards making Mikasa look clingier than she is. Plus, an awful lot of the missions Mikasa's been on have been focused on Eren anyway by design, like the wall-blocking mission and the expedition to draw out traitors. And Eren has been in constant peril, pretty much.

On a different note, I think I've seen people in some places saying that the reason Mikasa is protecting Eren is romantic love and romantic love alone. But I have to strongly disagree with that. The parts of the narrative which focus on Mikasa seem to place a strong emphasis on her attitude towards family. I'm not commenting on whether Mikasa does or does not like Eren romantically, but on what her driving force is, and it seems to me that family is what drives her.

Her statistics from one of the official guidebooks seems to bear that out: the characters have various ratings for the same stats, but each of them has a specific stat of their own which is personalised in some way. For example, Eren's has a rating for passion, and it's 10/10. Levi has a cleanliness stat of 10/10. Mikasa has a kindredship or kinship stat of 10/10.

[Anh_Minh]

Her impulsiveness isn't anything special either. Look at Eren. Or the idiot Levi gave a badge to.