[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 4 Alliance of the golden witch

[rogerpepitone]

Is Beatrice's initial letter the same in all episodes? ISTR it was different in episode 3.

[izmosmolnar]

Never mind guys no big deal, I kind of had a hunch when she started going all sulky, girly and uhm, how should I say, "likeable" .

Well then it's obvious since she was the first to solve it and so she gets the inheritance, because she was first.

Spoiler for up to ep3:

So you reckon even though she inherits the position, she doesn't inherit the achilles-heel with it (I mean how she has to pass up on being Beatrice for whoever finds the hidden gold)?
Or every scenario can change Beatrice only once - when the gold is first discovered -?

Or it just crossed my mind: only Beato Beatrice has to pass, because she herself wrote it like that in the letter, but her heir has no obligation regarding that, therefore she/he can totally ignore it and keep the title?

[Kitsu]

Spoiler:

Why does Beato need to do it that way...because Beato wanted to be resurrected. It's part of a ritual to resurrect herself. Eva-Beatrice doesn't it because she was "alive" to begin with.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by izmosmolnar

Spoiler for up to ep3:

Or it just crossed my mind: only Beato Beatrice has to pass, because she herself wrote it like that in the letter, but her heir has no obligation regarding that, therefore she/he can totally ignore it and keep the title?

Spoiler for episode3:

It's not really clear but it looks like she do have such obligations. What it's not clear is if she has to make Battler accept witches to gain more powers or if that's just a moral obligation to continue her predecessor's last mission. A certain fact that happens later (i won't spoil it) suggests that Battler's opinion does have some influence on Eva-Beatrice's powers.

[Kitsu]

Spoiler for @Jan-Poo/Spoiler for the very end:

That certain thing is mentioned before...if people don't believe in witches they don't appear so and don't have Power. Because it was unclear who the culprit was and because it was "impossible" she was Eva-Beatrice. That's why she began to turn into Eva the first time Battler decided to solve everything with the help of Kyrie's hint.
So as long no one, or at east Battler doesn't know the truth the culprit is always a witch
This is what I think

[izmosmolnar]

Well fair enough, my curiousity is satisfied for now, thank you (For some reason usually I strangely feel excited due to a bad habit of my: how I always look for plot-flaws, logic-flaws in everything I watch/read. The more complex something, but still perfectly explainable and filled with interesting plot-twists the more I truly enjoy something).
Edit: No hard feeling Kitsu, but I'm going to avoid that spoiler now .

[Kitsu]

That's why I've written @Jan-Poo and for the very end, so you don't click on it. I know how it is to be spoiled...the first Episode was spoiled by a friend of mine and I couldn't enjoy it so much (I still did)

[tcaz2]

Well since I'm not sure exactly where to post this, I'll post it here for now, sorry if it's wrong.

I remember hearing of a novel that does something similar to Umineko's red text, where the author gave a list of things that 'are true' at the beginning of the novel. Does anyone know the name of the book or the author?

Or if my friend that told me this is messing with me (because I was wondering if it's been done before).

[rogerpepitone]

I mentioned previously that John Dickson Carr did something like that a few times; for example, in The Three Coffins, he stated right up front that a certain set of witnesses were being accurate to the best of their ability. In The Nine Wrong Answers, he had footnotes responding to theories readers were likely to have.

[Kitsu]

I was just rereading Episode 1....

Spoiler for Episode 1/2:

could it be that the chapel doesn't exist in that one? How come Genji said that the study is the only save place he knows of? They could easily go to he servants room and look if the key of the chapel is there, take it and then go there. There aren't any other keys to the chapel, so they would be totally save. The study wasn't that safe because like Natsuhi said the murder of Kinzo was still unclear (he was found but it was still unclear how and where he was killed while being shut down in the study). I mean it would be okay if they after mention all safe places go there. But Genji said that there is only one safe place.

Also...could it be that the corpse in the boiler room was Hideyoshi? It was mentioned that he had six fingers by birth (which were operated), so maybe there is a chance that he has also six toes. They physics would match an so~

No screw this theory....

Spoiler for Truth?!?!:

While reading Episode 1 I noticed how often it was mentioned that it's All humans or Beatrice wins. And that all will survive if they win. Could it be possible that the deaths until the last twilight are all fake and said sacrifices and victims are still alive only unconscious or so for the time being? Maybe took to that hidden Mansion or so? Because how can they come back if there are dead? Then when no one found the gold and solved the riddle all are killed. And the place were the supposed "dead" people wait is the said Golden Land?!
Just thinking xD That would also explain the times were we see dead people walking around *coughKanoncough2timescoughShannon*

[tcaz2]

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

I mentioned previously that John Dickson Carr did something like that a few times; for example, in The Three Coffins, he stated right up front that a certain set of witnesses were being accurate to the best of their ability. In The Nine Wrong Answers, he had footnotes responding to theories readers were likely to have.

Well he must of got it from reading your post that I missed then. Thanks.

[rogerpepitone]

Spoiler for Kitsu's question:

The chapel might have only one door key, but the windows can be broken from ground level. IIRC, Kinzo's room is upstairs, so getting in through the window will take a ladder and is precarious.

[Kitsu]

Thanks rogerpepitone it was really bugging me

[rogerpepitone]

Spoiler for your episode 1 question:

Does episode 1 Beatrice ever state outright that she is going to kill them? At one point in the first message, she mentions "preserving your fortunes", but doesn't mention "preserving your lives". I think that the person who wrote that note is not involved in the murders.

[Kitsu]

Spoiler for yeah I thought something like this...but:

After the first killing I think about two letters came after that, with the same seal and it's to assuming all letters had the same handwriting. One with "Praise my name" or something and then another one which again clearly states the All human or Me win and the thing with giving all back if you win.

Spoiler for Episode 4:

Well it would be really nice to know if the handwriting of "Beatrice" in Maria's book/diary thingy, which is the same as the ones of the bottle's is the same as the letters

[rogerpepitone]

Spoiler for And?:

Do any of the other letters in episode 1 conclusively mention killing? ("Giving back" even the dead is a rather unusual thing to claim; it makes more sense if the author of the message only intended an inheritance fight.) I suggested elsewhere that the whole epitaph was a trap to solve the mystery of 1968!Beatrice's death / disappearance.

[Kitsu]

Spoiler:

After deaths and such and after it was openly assumed that collect interests means killing any person with a freaking common sense of a 12 years old would stop giving out those letters if I didn't meant killing.

Well in Episode 4 it's hinted that Eva found the gold in Kumadorian (the hidden mansion was called that or). It was said that while she found the gold the others were killed and that she was in that hidden mansion the whole time.

[rogerpepitone]

Spoiler for And?:

True, a person with common sense would stop giving them out, if he/she were able. But did the author have the ability to do so? Maria distributed the first "Beatrice" letter. She was in a good position to give out the "discord" letter in both eps. 1 and 2. Maybe the writer gave Maria more letters, or somehow had her to distribute them. After the writer is killed, those instructions couldn't be retracted. (Alternately, the writer had prepared some letters. In ep. 1, the killer found those letters but couldn't find the ring, so decided to gamble on the contents being confusing enough.)

One of the big traps in Higurashi was assuming that two events were connected when they were independent.

Spoiler for endings to eps 1 / 3:

The epilogue of episode 1 implies the bodies were found (the kids' bodies unidentifiable but present). Episode 4 implies that the other 17 bodies disappeared. Why the difference? Which one

[Kitsu]

Spoiler:

True, but in Episode One Maria just could have said that she gave that letter like she did with the first one, also someone most have told her to put the Letter with "Praise my name on high" to the corpses of Hideyoshi and Eva

Spoiler for "Episode 1/3:

Wasn't it aid somewhere that all corpses were you know made unidentifiable? I'm not sure though. But if you ask me we should believe the one of Episode 4. Doesn't the new truth rewrite the old truth ^^

[Varion]

Excellent news, Ryuukishi's finally put Rewrite on hold to get back to working on Umineko. Apparently it's quite difficult switching from school life stuff back to witch mysteries, heh. He's only just resumed though, and is still working on dreaming up plot details for episode 5.