Psycho-Pass - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'm not sure what being a full cyborg entails in GitS. Do they even have an organic brain left? That doesn't keep them from having relationships.

Full cyborg means only your brain remains.

But really that is irrelevant in this case. There is absolutely no reason to be a brain in a box. The Sibyl system is only trying to pretend it is a computer when it isn't. The system could have worked just as well with partial cyborgs who occasionally wire up themselves via the back of the neck to a network.

To have the brain removed and put into a cluster is just an elaborate means of hiding the organic nature of the system. It exists to deceive. A new system can be made that works just as well or better without needing to do brain surgery on anyone.

[Mad Pierrot]

Why would Sybil give cybernetic enhancements to Akane if she can defeat Makishima with a pizza?


Also this for Psycho Pass's third opening

[orion]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Full cyborg means only your brain remains.

But really that is irrelevant in this case. There is absolutely no reason to be a brain in a box. The Sibyl system is only trying to pretend it is a computer when it isn't. The system could have worked just as well with partial cyborgs who occasionally wire up themselves via the back of the neck to a network.

To have the brain removed and put into a cluster is just an elaborate means of hiding the organic nature of the system. It exists to deceive. A new system can be made that works just as well or better without needing to do brain surgery on anyone.

It's prob easier to switch out a cannister than a person. Also, without a body, those brains can't escape that easily if they don't like what they are doing.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by orion

It's prob easier to switch out a cannister than a person. Also, without a body, those brains can't escape that easily if they don't like what they are doing.

If you need to imprison your politicians and force them to work for you, you probably got the wrong politicians. Also you also seem to have the insane idea that you want to give real political power to prisoners, including writing new laws. I have no idea what possessed you to think that made an once of sense.

You seem to be under the impression that the Sibyl system is worth keeping.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

If you need to imprison your politicians and force them to work for you, you probably got the wrong politicians. Also you also seem to have the insane idea that you want to give real political power to prisoners, including writing new laws. I have no idea what possessed you to think that made an once of sense.

You seem to be under the impression that the Sibyl system is worth keeping.

They kept the crime down. They can't be bribed. They just made a mistake with Makishima that's all. They just need to be tweaked. I'm not into total society ruining with consequences that reach to other countries, like mine.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by orion

They kept the crime down. They can't be bribed. They just made a mistake with Makishima that's all. They just need to be tweaked. I'm not into total society ruining with consequences that reach to other countries, like mine.

And at what point do you think it is a good idea to imprison people and then give them the power to wreck shit?

No, seriously, please don't avoid the question; why do you think it is okay to imprison someone against their will, then give them power over society so they can extract their revenge on you?

[Dengar]

Orion, are you also implying that the Sibyl system is ran by something else, when clearly it is ran by the Sibyl system?

[Cosmic Eagle]

The melancholy in this ep....I loved it when Kou finally armed himself with a proper weapon. One that is wielded by the wielder alone.

[Dengar]

He can only do that because he went rogue though.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Exactly....going rogue in this kind of system is every bit a worthy act

[ThereminVox]

Some great parody images this week.

I'm really late to the party, but I loved this episode. Thought it was phenomenal. Though yes, it was QUALITY Central.

Division 1 absolutely shines when the chips are down. There's no one on that team playing the fool, as I'd rather expected there would be. Everyone knows something reeks, but none of them are fool enough to step outside the law, save for Kougami, who might just be badass enough to pull it off. I can't help but notice that they are all willing to stick their necks out and bend the rules to help each other. Even Ginoza goes to bat for Kougami despite Masoka advising him to ride this out, and leave the dirty work to the enforcers who have nothing to lose.

I loved how nearly all of the conversations this week were working on multiple levels, with some being outright conspiratorial. In particular, Shion's scene with Kougami was great. Love how he asks her if she's been taken off the case, and she responds (essentially) with a "I dunno, I haven't checked my messages in a while..." Division 1 is staging a unspoken rebellion, and the Chief is actively antagonizing them. Both sides know full well that they're enemies, but they have to keep up appearances. It's a delicious dynamic to watch. I'll actually miss the tension when the fists start to fly.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Exactly....going rogue in this kind of system is every bit a worthy act

I dunno about that. I find it more badass when someone manages to win against the machine while still within the scope of the law.

[Ultramarinus]

The horrible animation and drawings unfortunately weren't my biggest gripe with the episode but how non-sense the story is progressing with not much hopes of a recovery.

The stunt of chief in the carpool, really? It was totally stupid on her part to antagonize the people she's relying on so openly, it was like "we cannot think of a situation to make the team realize she's bad so here it goes". Why the hell would she do that? And last and not least, total lack of response from everyone else to the situation. Until Akane intervenes in a way that wasn't even necessary to begin with.

I was loving the series until the second part and had so much hopes yet it's headed to pretty much certain doom now. What a shame.

I just hope they won't mess up GitS Arise like this.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by orion

They kept the crime down. They can't be bribed. They just made a mistake with Makishima that's all. They just need to be tweaked. I'm not into total society ruining with consequences that reach to other countries, like mine.

A mistake that they are continuing to make.

[Dengar]

Remember that these brains are also the guys who are hiding the truth from the public: Mainly that apathy is becoming a lethal disease.

[GoldenLand]

I think discussions about whether Sybil is a good system or not are hampered by the revelations in the last few eps, because they've been shown to have so many flaws.

I mean, Sybil has a god complex, and this appears to cause them to arrogantly overlook risks to the system and then fail to fully learn from experience. Makishima criticised Sybil-run society as so very easy to knock down, and he was right. When Sybil had Makishima captured, it was its own fault that he escaped, because they took such inadequate precautions. In order to cover up its own weaknesses (which it should have prepared for) and continue with its (stupid) plan to recruit Makishima unharmed, Sybil has apparently murdered Kagari and has made an attempt to murder Kogami. And the latter took place in front of a bunch of Inspectors.

Even if we could argue that Sybil has potential in some form, the system as it is is presented is seriously incompetent.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

And at what point do you think it is a good idea to imprison people and then give them the power to wreck shit?

No, seriously, please don't avoid the question; why do you think it is okay to imprison someone against their will, then give them power over society so they can extract their revenge on you?

Because taking them down will affect other countries. If Japan falls, how many other countries are going to be in financial problems or ruin because of Japan? It's a domino effect. You're not just affecting Japan by taking out Sibyl.

They're using human brains. It sucks. Tweak it and live them alone imo.

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

I mean, Sybil has a god complex, and this appears to cause them to arrogantly overlook risks to the system and then fail to fully learn from experience. Makishima criticised Sybil-run society as so very easy to knock down, and he was right. When Sybil had Makishima captured, it was its own fault that he escaped, because they took such inadequate precautions. In order to cover up its own weaknesses (which it should have prepared for) and continue with its (stupid) plan to recruit Makishima unharmed, Sybil has apparently murdered Kagari and has made an attempt to murder Kogami. And the latter took place in front of a bunch of Inspectors.

Well, the thing here is that Sybil first needs to assimilate Makishima's brain into the system to be able to understand the way he thinks. It's kinda self-defeating. Sybil is completely incapable of comprehending Makishima's way of thinking, which is why he was designated as an asymptotic individual in the first place. That's pretty much why the system is so desperate to get it hands on his brain. In addition to that, in its reckless arrogance, it refuses to acknowledge that they might be underestimating Makishima, or perhaps they simply don't about about anything aside from capturing him.

In any case, there's little doubt that Sybil was presented to be a "bad" system, as is the usual reaction to any authoritarian mode of governance. Even so, despite being a monstrous(?) system that subjugates human freedom, you can't deny that it's considerably efficient at what it does.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by orion

Because taking them down will affect other countries. If Japan falls, how many other countries are going to be in financial problems or ruin because of Japan? It's a domino effect. You're not just affecting Japan by taking out Sibyl.

They're using human brains. It sucks. Tweak it and live them alone imo.

We don't know anything about other countries. Until we see them, I will assume that Sybil lied about the state of the planet the same way they lied about everything else.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

I think discussions about whether Sybil is a good system or not are hampered by the revelations in the last few eps, because they've been shown to have so many flaws.

I can understand why some people want to debate over whether Sybil is a good system or not. It can, at times, be interesting to argue if a particular fictional societal system is closer to an utopia, closer to a dystopia, or something between the two. Playing Devil's Advocate for something that looks bad at a surface level can also be a good intellectual challenge, and so that's something I appreciate.

I'll also admit that I generally like debating against Sybil defenders just because Sybil runs so very contrary to any governmental/societal system that I'd ever want to live under that it's a love-to-hate system for me. In other words, I admit I take personal enjoyment out of critiquing Sybil.


But all of the above being said, I don't think that Gen intends for Sybil to be particularly ambiguous when it comes to how desirable it is as a societal system. In other words, I think the audience is intended to view Sybil in a largely negative night.

So I think that it's far more likely that Gen intends Sybil to be some sort of metaphor for something that exists in real life, and that through Sybil, Gen is making social commentary critiquing whatever that real life something is. Perhaps it would be more productive if discussion shifted to trying to determine what Gen is making social commentary about here. We have hinted a bit at this in recent weeks, but nowhere near as much as we've debated over "Is Sybil 'good' or 'bad' overall?".

Originally Posted by orion

Because taking them down will affect other countries. If Japan falls, how many other countries are going to be in financial problems or ruin because of Japan?

Nothing short of a world superpower dissolved back in 1991, just a little over two decades ago. This happened in the real world. Much of the world just continued to go about its business, more or less. There was no major and lasting "domino effect" resulting from the fall of the USSR.

If the real world could handle the fall of the USSR, I would think that the world of Psycho-Pass could handle the fall of Japan.

And in some ways the real world USSR of the 80s and early 90s might be a good comparison to the Japan of Psycho-Pass.

Communism had somewhat isolated the USSR from most of the rest of the developed world. The Sibyl system might have done much the same for Japan in the world of Psycho-Pass.

They're using human brains. It sucks. Tweak it and live them alone imo.

Presuming that the America in the world of Psycho-Pass is pretty close to the America that we know, I'm not arguing that America should invade Psycho-Pass' Japan and forcibly remove the Sybil government and put into place some sort of puppet regime answerable to Washington. Nor would I want some UN-based force doing this.

No, it's much, much better if Sybil is taken out, or at least reformed, by the Japanese people themselves. Government revolutions tend to be longer lasting, and more beneficial to the people, when they are due to uprisings started by the people themselves, rather than as "liberations" 'given' to them by foreign nations.