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winter45 · 2012-01-24, 18:36

@23 gundam fan

Correct me if im wrong here.

Is your recent posts in regards to viewers/fans being biased against Minerva? The more i read it the more it is coming off this way.

NoemiChan · 2012-01-24, 20:12

I've notice that the thread has another phase regarding AA, Orb and Minerva.

I'll try to be neutral but this is my thought ( I don't know if this has any relations)

Why AA protects Orb?

>To protect their friends and it's citizens
>To have a nation that continues to stand neutral between Zaft and EA (?)

Why AA fights Minerva?

>not intentionally at the start, but because Minerva is a lethal arm of Zaft. Minerva does Durandalls's every bidding (until the event where he sacrifice a fleet to be destroyed together with Orb's) that is why AA has to fight Minerva. Minerva's success is Durandall's as well. AA also attacks EA but majority are of against Zaft.

Why does AA attacks only Zaft and EA(?)
>Zaft becomes more aggressive than that of earth so AA's target was the Aggressor. EA was just dragged again into war and Blue Cosmos took advantage of it. For me, AAs target is stopping Durandall's and Blue cosmos evil palns

I praised the Minerva's ship captain (?), she knew something is wrong about Durandall's actions but sadly she is not in the position to go against him.

monster · 2012-01-24, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by genjichan

Why AA protects Orb?

>To protect their friends and it's citizens

Yes.

Quote:

>To have a nation that continues to stand against Zaft and Earth (?)

No, Cagalli doesn't want Orb to be involved with either ZAFT or EA.

Quote:

Why AA fights Minerva?

>basically Minerva is a lethal arm of Zaft. Minerva does Durandalls's every bidding (until the event where he sacrifice a fleet to be destroyed together with Orb's) that is why AA has to fight Minerva. Minerva's success is Durandall's as well.

No, it's because Minerva is attacking Orb.

Quote:

Why does AA attacks only Zaft and not also the Earth's(?)

But they do attack EA as well.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2012-01-24, 21:01

1 -

A.) The citizens at least. Don't know how many people they actually KNOW (that we know of) that live there though.

B.) As mentioned, Orb is meant to be neutral, as in not involved with the war at all with either side. It doesn't give any (official) aid to one or the other, but doesn't turn them away either. (Like Side 6 in Mobile Suit Gundam.) In terms of Side 6 anyway, their only rules were that neither side is allowed to fight the other or causing conflict while within Side 6's boundaries, which is why both sides, while they had their MS and weaponry READY to fire, neither side ever took any action until right after they left Side 6 airspace.

Of course, 0080 had Libot (part of Side 6) ending up breaking this by housing the Gundam Alex for completion and testing and the Zeon's Cyclops Team trying to destroy it and causing MS battles within.

2 -

A.) One can't also forget that, at the time (earlier anyway IIRC), Dullindal, to the eyes of most civilians, both Earth and space, was a saint while the EA was the tyrannical one trying to hold everything in an iron grip and, by joining with them (through Yuuno), Orb became a part of the EA war machine, thus becoming a legitimate military target for ZAFT to attack as it was no longer the neutral nation it was before.

This makes ZAFT's attack look far more justifiable than the EA's did in SEED, where they simply attacked Orb for not joining with them (because of their "join us or be declared an automatic ally of ZAFT and we'll attack you anyway") and wanting their mass driver.

3 -

A.) Also as mentioned, Kira and co. attack both EA AND ZAFT forces that are engaged in conflict with eachother or with them. This is what, earlier on, caused so much confusion on the battlefield. The clear lines of ally and enemy became blurred by a 3rd party just barging in and attacking everyone like that.

winter45 · 2012-01-24, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by genjichan

Why AA protects Orb?

>To have a nation that continues to stand against Zaft and Earth (?).

In destiny for the most part of the serie Earth's either neutral or have a super power allied with ORB so thats not really a problem. Its AA specifically Cagalli that has problem with the AF

Quote:

Originally Posted by genjichan

Why AA fights Minerva?

>basically Minerva is a lethal arm of Zaft. Minerva does Durandalls's every bidding (until the event where he sacrifice a fleet to be destroyed together with Orb's) that is why AA has to fight Minerva. Minerva's success is Durandall's as well.

For your first part

Minerva is at war with ORB

As evil as it sounds sacrificing personal to achieve a victory. Humans have been doing this long before current civilizations and is some cases still practice it today. Sucky as it sounds but to me that action itself is normal.

Im not saying Durandall's action are noble or anything of the like. When out of clean options youll have to take drastic measure(s) when situations doesn't favor you at extreme levels. So glady's having that doubt is to me is to enhance story drama.

Ive had a missile strike detonation 40m of my squad position once. Pissed and angry i was but at the same time im expendable like the next guy. Nor did i think something was shady.

Quote:

Originally Posted by genjichan

Why does AA attacks only Zaft and not also the Earth's(?)
>Zaft becomes more aggressive than that of earth so AA's target was the Aggressor. Earth was just dragged again into war and Blue Cosmos took advantage of it.

AA was shooting at everyone including orb forces

Quote:

Originally Posted by genjichan

I praised the Minerva's ship captain (?), she knew something is wrong about Durandall's actions but sadly she is not in the position to go against him.

For your information, any competent militant will question themselves the reasons why they entered the war or fight. People know not everything is black and white as politicians make things out to be. So to me that is a given. Its like when that Colonel of the orb fleet knew deep down that yuna was being shady.

Being a vet of 2 wars and peacekeeping i still question myself some of the big questions.

monster · 2012-01-24, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by genjichan

AA also attacks EA but majority are of against Zaft

That's not true. The two times Archangel interfered, they attacked both EA/Orb and Minerva. In Berlin, they attacked EA. And in phase 34, ZAFT attacked them, so of course they would be fighting ZAFT.

So, no, the majority of Archangel's attack is not against ZAFT.

23 gundam fan · 2012-01-26, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

Cagalli is a representative of Orb. Why would she not be on the side of Orb? That would be like complaining that Shinn is on the side of the Minerva.

but the truth of the situation should truff just blindly being on orb side when you are clearly in the wrong. while yes cagalli loves her nation and would want to defend it , but there is nothing to defend here as far as orbs actions. they were wrong period. i mean its like trying to defend a brother you love when they are a lock up for killing someone, you can still love them all you want but there is no defending them, so dont even try.

monster · 2012-01-26, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan

but the truth of the situation should truff just blindly being on orb side when you are clearly in the wrong. while yes cagalli loves her nation and would want to defend it , but there is nothing to defend here as far as orbs actions. they were wrong period. i mean its like trying to defend a brother you love when they are a lock up for killing someone, you can still love them all you want but there is no defending them, so dont even try.

You're delusional if you think a government would let another country's military wipe out their own forces just because they're in the "wrong."

winter45 · 2012-01-26, 19:04

@23 gundam fan

I can see your point of view as in a personal level relationship between siblings as well as a non official representative.

Problem is even *IF* orb is in the wrong, by default your still have to support your nation forces. Without them, your asking anyone without friendly intentions to invade your territory. Which is far worse scenario than not supporting your forces.

NoemiChan · 2012-01-26, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by winter45

Ive had a missile strike detonation 40m of my squad position once. Pissed and angry i was but at the same time im expendable like the next guy. Nor did i think something was shady.

That would be ok if you're informed of what is going to happen... but what happened to the fleet (I don't think they had an idea that the damned ray gun is focused at at their location) is far more "WTF" are you shooting at us?! Why didn't you at least told us to moved away even if it's impossible.

winter45 · 2012-01-26, 22:57

@genjichan

It does fall back to my *desperate measure*

But as far as Doctrine is concern is that you dont point a WMD at friendlies direction during a battle unless thers is decent amount of probability you are willing to destroy both Allie and foe. Which was the case in DESTINY.

Meaning to those in the firing path of the big ray gun would of known if things arnt going to well there is that possibility you'll be fried.

wingdarkness · 2012-01-26, 23:18

Worst Best review of Gundam Seed Destiny I ever watched...I literally almost wanted to punch this guy...It's sad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LftUI...830A4B7&lf=BFp

winter45 · 2012-01-26, 23:21

WD i totally agree with you.. there was another review of THAT review that just dissect it and pointed out all its flaws.. very funny to watch. Unfortunately i do not know where i can find it so you may have a great lol

wingdarkness · 2012-01-26, 23:26

^Awwww I'd like to see that...

Soaring Griffin · 2012-01-26, 23:30

Washu-chan already linked that video, the reply I think winter is talking about and a third video a few pages back.

winter45 · 2012-01-26, 23:31

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0kZx...eature=related

here you go...

Charred Knight · 2012-01-27, 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by winter45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0kZx...eature=related

here you go...

Honestly a lot of that is just mocking him without actually discussing Gundam. It just comes off as petty. For example take the talk about how Shinn isn't the main character, instead of actually talking about how Shinn is the main character for most of the series, the review just mock ONV and starts bringing up Amuro like their problems are the same (Amuro has problems being the main pilot protecting White Base, while Shinn suffers from PTSD)

winter45 · 2012-01-27, 06:08

So i guess its ok ONV telling me that i dont get it? Because i dont like the show?

Flip side of the coin

ONV is mocking Gundam fans who have rational thinking and concluded on why they dislike the show, which happens not everyone shares the same pov as he does. Which i find it very disrespectful and It comes off as petty. ONV has opened it doors to be challenged on these points.

Charred Knight · 2012-01-27, 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by winter45

So i guess its ok ONV telling me that i dont get it? Because i dont like the show?

Flip side of the coin

ONV is mocking Gundam fans who have rational thinking and concluded on why they dislike the show, which happens not everyone shares the same pov as he does. Which i find it very disrespectful and It comes off as petty. ONV has opened it doors to be challenged on these points.

If you want to challenge someone challenge someone don't make a video mocking them. Two wrongs don't make a right.

winter45 · 2012-01-27, 06:19

I believe he did, just not in a manner you agree with.

2012-01-24, 18:36	Link #2341
winter45 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Australia Age: 41	@23 gundam fan Correct me if im wrong here. Is your recent posts in regards to viewers/fans being biased against Minerva? The more i read it the more it is coming off this way. Last edited by winter45; 2012-01-24 at 20:31. Reason: major word corrections

2012-01-24, 20:12	Link #2342
NoemiChan Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Philippines Age: 36	I've notice that the thread has another phase regarding AA, Orb and Minerva. I'll try to be neutral but this is my thought ( I don't know if this has any relations) Why AA protects Orb? >To protect their friends and it's citizens >To have a nation that continues to stand neutral between Zaft and EA (?) Why AA fights Minerva? >not intentionally at the start, but because Minerva is a lethal arm of Zaft. Minerva does Durandalls's every bidding (until the event where he sacrifice a fleet to be destroyed together with Orb's) that is why AA has to fight Minerva. Minerva's success is Durandall's as well. AA also attacks EA but majority are of against Zaft. Why does AA attacks only Zaft and EA(?) >Zaft becomes more aggressive than that of earth so AA's target was the Aggressor. EA was just dragged again into war and Blue Cosmos took advantage of it. For me, AAs target is stopping Durandall's and Blue cosmos evil palns I praised the Minerva's ship captain (?), she knew something is wrong about Durandall's actions but sadly she is not in the position to go against him. Last edited by NoemiChan; 2012-01-24 at 21:03. Reason: I made fast conclusions

2012-01-24, 21:01	Link #2344
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply 1 - A.) The citizens at least. Don't know how many people they actually KNOW (that we know of) that live there though. B.) As mentioned, Orb is meant to be neutral, as in not involved with the war at all with either side. It doesn't give any (official) aid to one or the other, but doesn't turn them away either. (Like Side 6 in Mobile Suit Gundam.) In terms of Side 6 anyway, their only rules were that neither side is allowed to fight the other or causing conflict while within Side 6's boundaries, which is why both sides, while they had their MS and weaponry READY to fire, neither side ever took any action until right after they left Side 6 airspace. Of course, 0080 had Libot (part of Side 6) ending up breaking this by housing the Gundam Alex for completion and testing and the Zeon's Cyclops Team trying to destroy it and causing MS battles within. 2 - A.) One can't also forget that, at the time (earlier anyway IIRC), Dullindal, to the eyes of most civilians, both Earth and space, was a saint while the EA was the tyrannical one trying to hold everything in an iron grip and, by joining with them (through Yuuno), Orb became a part of the EA war machine, thus becoming a legitimate military target for ZAFT to attack as it was no longer the neutral nation it was before. This makes ZAFT's attack look far more justifiable than the EA's did in SEED, where they simply attacked Orb for not joining with them (because of their "join us or be declared an automatic ally of ZAFT and we'll attack you anyway") and wanting their mass driver. 3 - A.) Also as mentioned, Kira and co. attack both EA AND ZAFT forces that are engaged in conflict with eachother or with them. This is what, earlier on, caused so much confusion on the battlefield. The clear lines of ally and enemy became blurred by a 3rd party just barging in and attacking everyone like that. __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2012-01-26, 23:18	Link #2352
wingdarkness Retweet Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA	Worst Best review of Gundam Seed Destiny I ever watched...I literally almost wanted to punch this guy...It's sad... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LftUI...830A4B7&lf=BFp __________________ Fly since ↔...

2012-01-26, 23:26	Link #2354
wingdarkness Retweet Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA	^Awwww I'd like to see that... __________________ Fly since ↔...

2012-01-26, 19:04	Link #2349
winter45 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Australia Age: 41	@23 gundam fan I can see your point of view as in a personal level relationship between siblings as well as a non official representative. Problem is even IF orb is in the wrong, by default your still have to support your nation forces. Without them, your asking anyone without friendly intentions to invade your territory. Which is far worse scenario than not supporting your forces.

2012-01-26, 22:57	Link #2351
winter45 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Australia Age: 41	@genjichan It does fall back to my desperate measure But as far as Doctrine is concern is that you dont point a WMD at friendlies direction during a battle unless thers is decent amount of probability you are willing to destroy both Allie and foe. Which was the case in DESTINY. Meaning to those in the firing path of the big ray gun would of known if things arnt going to well there is that possibility you'll be fried.

2012-01-26, 23:21	Link #2353
winter45 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Australia Age: 41	WD i totally agree with you.. there was another review of *THAT* review that just dissect it and pointed out all its flaws.. very funny to watch. Unfortunately i do not know where i can find it so you may have a great lol

2012-01-26, 23:30	Link #2355
Soaring Griffin Member Join Date: Dec 2009	Washu-chan already linked that video, the reply I think winter is talking about and a third video a few pages back.

2012-01-26, 23:31	Link #2356
winter45 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Australia Age: 41	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0kZx...eature=related here you go...

2012-01-27, 06:08	Link #2358
winter45 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Australia Age: 41	So i guess its ok ONV telling me that i dont get it? Because i dont like the show? Flip side of the coin ONV is mocking Gundam fans who have rational thinking and concluded on why they dislike the show, which happens not everyone shares the same pov as he does. Which i find it very disrespectful and It comes off as petty. ONV has opened it doors to be challenged on these points.

2012-01-27, 06:19	Link #2360
winter45 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Australia Age: 41	I believe he did, just not in a manner you agree with. Last edited by winter45; 2012-01-27 at 06:47.