Sword Art Online - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[zaz122]

Originally Posted by zRichard

Yeah, due to the lack of exposition on how the skill works, there are countless possibilities, such as. "Battle Regen only works while your HP is over 50%". Or "Battle Regen only works while on Battle Stance", with Battle Stance requiring the player to stand properly on it's two feet.

There are many MMORPG with skills that have weird requirements like that. For example.

Although I wont deny the possibility, I highly doubt it since the author has said that he was highly inspired from the mmo "Ragnarok Online" which had a similar if not the exact same skill on the Swordsman class. It would heal X amount every 10 seconds, which from my experience was nice to have to save on pots and reduce downtime, it didn't really "save" you most of the time. Since at level 99 with max VIT it only healed for 1500ish? if memory serves me right. And mobs were hitting a lot more and a lot faster than that.

[Adigard]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

SAQ since then has acted as if he doesn't have it. At the very least Kirito shouldn't be getting knocked down to 1HP so easily.

Technically he's being knocked down to 1+% HP, if you assume a linear progression on the HP bar... I don't know that we've actually seen his health totals in any of those scenes. Going off the notion that he's got 18000 HP (I think I saw that number bandied around somewhere here and in the anime) he's somewhere in the +/-180 HP range. And it could actually be higher, we don't know just how granular that bar is. Just a minor technicality is all.

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Sleep PK has yet to make an appearance again so we can't compare how it's used from one event to another at the moment.

I almost wonder if we're missing the forest, for the trees on that one. I'm thinking now it may be more of a "people learning to adapt in a MMO, and are finding new and creative ways to kill one another."

Rather than being a mechanic that needs to be fully explored.

In much the same way that we're introduced to the notion of green player's leading player's to a waiting pack of orange player's that will kill them, or orange player's using status debuffs to enable them to kill more powerful players.

Rather than being mechanics that need to be explored... it's more a natural extension of being trapped in-game, and seeking... alternatives, if I can be so crass.

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Speaking of that, I remember something else that was inconsistent, Griselda's ghost.

I was not a major fan of that moment in the LN... but as the anime was quite faithful in adapting it I think we're to see it as less of a mechanic, or a glitch in the system, and more of a 'sense of wonder' thing.

In a show that directly questions death / dying... showing a ghost is an interesting idea.

Originally Posted by zaz122

Although I wont deny the possibility, I highly doubt it since the author has said that he was highly inspired from the mmo "Ragnarok Online" which had a similar if not the exact same skill on the Swordsman class. It would heal X amount every 10 seconds, which from my experience was nice to have to save on pots and reduce downtime, it didn't really "save" you most of the time. Since at level 99 with max VIT it only healed for 1500ish? if memory serves me right. And mobs were hitting a lot more and a lot faster than that.

There's a snazzy blog out there about how SAO would be written if the author wrote it today (and not back in 2002 with the hardcore MMO's). The SAO novels inspired me to return to FFXI again (although that was short lived since it's a totally different game now). But it's also possible some of the confusion people are feeling in regards to the MMO setting is simply not having much relevant experience with the old hardcore MMO's.

Some of the posts (not yours) have me confused a bit... I'm almost wondering if certain folks are assuming Kirito is walking around at level cap, in full raid gear, and fully maximized stats from his gear. Since he's still (alongside everyone else) leveling... his gear / stats / etc are not going to be optimal. In point of fact he's probably only gained Mastery in a few skills.

[Wild Goose]

Regards pain, I think it's partly psychomatic - players expect pain and so react appropriately, even if there's no actual physical pain. Notice how Klein was writing away in agony from getting headbutted by the boars, until Kirito reminded him that there's no pain, and Klein went, "Huh, yeah, you're right."

Kinda thought Godfrey was trying to crawl away.

Also, while there's no pain per se, I think that's a matter of programming/fooling the pain and pleasure receptors - note that the senses of touch, taste, scent, sight are all simulated.

[GundamZZ]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Which brings us back to the question whether death in the game really means 'death'.
It could as well mean that you are trapped until you die or someone wins the game and its just similar to Diablo's Hardcore Characters.

or if they die they get ported to Plaxe X where the rest of the players can't enter and she was somehow allowed to shade into the PC world.

Then all those previous news were fake. I thought once players died in the games, they are electric executed in the real world. So, the players' mental states are manipulated by the system. The game cuts off their brain from their real life sensory system. So, Kirito passes out after beating(and always beating by) a level boss.

Spoiler:

If Kirito did it with Asuna, Kirito's real body will not show the difference.
Hospital staffs are relieved. They don't have to clean up Kirito's bed.

[Wild Goose]

Most likely explanation for seeing Griselda's ghost is that it's an echo of her Ghost (using the Ghost in the Shell definition of the concept). Somehow, through a glitch in the system, an echo of her self/presence/avatar appears at that site.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

I understand this myself as I have a minor MMO background, but Kirito's regeneration was healing him at crazy speeds for a pretty big chuck HP when he last showcased it. SAQ since then has acted as if he doesn't have it. At the very least Kirito shouldn't be getting knocked down to 1HP so easily. At this point I subscribe to the thought Kuradeel's paralysis probably nulled the HP regen temporally.

It wasn't healing him at crazy speeds for a pretty big chunk of HP when he last showcased it. It was healing him for 600 HP out of 14,500 HP every ten seconds when he last showcased it. In other words, for about 4.1% of his max HP every ten seconds. With his HP now apparently at 18,500 according to someone earlier, if we assume the battle healing has improved to 800 every ten seconds, it's healing him for 4.3% of his max HP every ten seconds. Helpful, but not instant salvation. Especially when we consider, that assuming that Kirito had 500 HP left when Asuna arrived, and Kuradeel was at it for about 30 seconds like some here have said, he was doing about 6000 damage every ten seconds. So, about 600 DPS, vs a skill healing an average of 80 HP per second. The increase needed to offset that only raises Kuradeel's damage output to 680 DPS.

Not difficult to believe seeing as Kirito isn't a tank build, and Kuradeel was basically getting free stabs in on him with a heavy two handed sword. Sure it sounds impressive, but it's still significantly lower than what Kirito and the floor 74 boss were putting out.

The bottom line is that battle healing is good, and likely made the difference between life and death when facing the level 74 boss, and when being attack by Kuradeel, but it's not something that's going to make him immortal vs something that he doesn't significantly outlevel.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Most likely explanation for seeing Griselda's ghost is that it's an echo of her Ghost (using the Ghost in the Shell definition of the concept). Somehow, through a glitch in the system, an echo of her self/presence/avatar appears at that site.

Or the game just saved her appearance and randomly shows her image near the spot designated as her grave. It's not like her character was deleted, even if she's dead.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Clarste

Or the game just saved her appearance and randomly shows her image near the spot designated as her grave. It's not like her character was deleted, even if she's dead.

Her ghost appearance is more like an RPG cut-scene after you finished a mission to me .

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Clarste

Or the game just saved her appearance and randomly shows her image near the spot designated as her grave. It's not like her character was deleted, even if she's dead.

Yeah, this occurred to me as well. There's no reason that this couldn't be a game mechanic (an AI-controlled ghost of a dead player's avatar appears randomly near designated grave sites), but based on the fact that Kirito and Asuna were both surprised, I take it that it's very rare (they probably also don't hang out around grave sites that much...). To see it given that timing is either a big coincidence, or the game pays attention to what's going on at some level. It's certainly plausible anyway.

[Rising Dragon]

Or maybe Kayaba is watching and screwing with their heads. Seems right up his alley, all things considered.

[Dark Wing]

Or it could have just been Grimlock hallucinating...

[Rising Dragon]

... so Kirito and Asuna have the ability to see another person's hallucinations?

[Utsuro no Hako]

Or it could really be Griselda's ghost. Just because the show's sci-fi doesn't mean the author can't throw in fantasy elements.

[zRichard]

That would be paranormal elements.... but yeah, people are taking what they see way more seriously than the anime thinks for itself.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

... so Kirito and Asuna have the ability to see another person's hallucinations?

It's a bug in the system.....

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Except that other characters like Godfrey writhed after each blow, so really it looks like the anime studio didn't receive the memo that you don't feel any pain in SAO.
It looks like another blooper like the axe dual wielder.

Conditioned response? I'm guessing they have been inhabiting their virtual bodies for a while and even if it doesn't hurt the thought of being stabbed might cause them to believe that they are hurt even for a moment.

Also @ points about passing out... Stress is one of the biggest killers in our modern world, and I would imagine the thought of imminent death to be a big trigger of stress.

[ronelm2000]

[Do you know the secret of this world, called Aincrad?]

Spoiler for Yes [in short, into the LN side of things; Vol. 1 comparison]:

Originally Posted by ronelm2000

WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA HAHAAAAAAA! HAAAAA..... HAAAAA...... Ha.....

I can't believe the television-style Brain Burst program living in Reki's TV shows have returned with a vengeance. Plus, the fact that Heathcliff's attack to be treated as a simple ZA WARDO was priceless. Plus plus, the fact that everyone who's innocent is practically saying nothing has happened between them. Well, that's easily arguable, but being the "There is but one ultimate way" fan, I approve of the Kirito x Asuna had uknowwhat part. Oh well.. ^.^

Okay, on the half-serious side of things, why did they not put Heathcliff to the point of having 50%? Isn't it kinda missing the point of him being nervous? If I remember correctly, he had the expression because he was nearly.... u know... that... not because of getting hit by a simple strike that might have not even reach into the yellow zone. Sigh. Also, what zone... is the yellow zone. How much percentage is it again? Isn't it 50%? Sigh...

Also, was Godfrey that... friendly...? And isn't it supposed to be 4 players or something? Oh well... Healing Crystal is instananeous and not on a 5 minute interval? Oh well...

Spoiler for No [Anime-only]:

Really, really, really... REALLY?! They manage to fit that... all of that... in 1 episode. Mother of Summaries... And apparently I thought only Accel World can Brain Burst their episodes...

Heatcliff's fight with Kirito is very interesting, to say the least. While it looks like more of a hack, I mean... it does remind you of that program right rather than an actual skill..., heh, to each their own. Plus, it's interesting to note that Kirito is merely the second one who had the Unique Skill. Well, I guess the first is the best.

On a note, Kirito in a white dress is something indeed. Wow. He looks... dull yet cool at the same time. On a non-serious note, Asuna should have changed his gloves and eye contacts. At first I was imagining a simple cloak and white t-shirt... not anymore!

Okay, I need to color-code everything right now: blue means teleport, red means heal... then... what is the green and yellow one again? At least I know (from this ep) that green is for status heal, I guess. Bonus points for Kirito missing Asuna's cooking. Now we're going somewhere with it...

You all know that Cradil was crazy, but boooy was he craaaaaaaazy. and dat face. He's awesome. It was a bit sad. and ironic. and stupid. that he died. But oh well... wait... why did he scream?! Doesn't pain not exist? Oh well, go my friend, and turn into Walpurgis Night! Hmm... so that's what your screen will look like when you're in the red zone. Quite scary indeed... Anyway, at least Asuna's stalkery saved him. (Remember that time with Liz? Asuna stalks EVERYONE! ) And then... damn Kirito lost his hand. Too bad it's only a debuff.

And...so...it begins. Oh God... Asuna saying "Yusho!" then strip. I lol'd. And so ends the ep.... XDDDDDD

On the gameplay side of things, Asuna has an Unarmed skill?

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by GundamZZ

Then all those previous news were fake. I thought once players died in the games, they are electric executed in the real world. So, the players' mental states are manipulated by the system. The game cuts off their brain from their real life sensory system. So, Kirito passes out after beating(and always beating by) a level boss.

Spoiler:

If Kirito did it with Asuna, Kirito's real body will not show the difference.
Hospital staffs are relieved. They don't have to clean up Kirito's bed.

He never directly stated that the evice would burn their brain if they died.
He stated it would burn their brain if they tried to remove it.
That combined with 'Death means death' could easily lead people into thinking that an ingame death would burn their head.

Its pretty similar to the mystery arc, where the cuöprits just had to twist the truth a bit to make everyone believe they died and where ghosts.

[Awrya]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

He never directly stated that the evice would burn their brain if they died.
He stated it would burn their brain if they tried to remove it.
That combined with 'Death means death' could easily lead people into thinking that an ingame death would burn their head.

Its pretty similar to the mystery arc, where the cuöprits just had to twist the truth a bit to make everyone believe they died and where ghosts.

In fact, he did, right in Ep.1

If your HP drops to zero, your avatar will be forever lost.
And simultaneously, the NerveGear will destroy your brain.

Subjected to change, depending on which fansubs you read.

Though it is an interesting point, even if they died in the game and they wake up in real life, they don't have any means to contact the players in the game. They will continue playing under the assumption that virtual death=real life death.

[zRichard]

And that's the excuse many PKs are using to justify their doings. If they had trustworthy evidence that their lives do end after their HP reaches 0, I'm sure that there wouldn't be that many PKs.