2013-04-11, 05:45 | Link #141 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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If he set it up, that is. We still don't know the precise circumstances of Rin's death, but I agree it was very convenient for Madara that it happened that way.
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2013-04-11, 06:47 | Link #143 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Rochester NY
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The 10tails is free from Madara and Obitos control last we seen.I wonder if it will go crazy and attack everyone.I for one would rather see Sasuke and Naruto team up then fight again.And even though i like the four hokages i think it would be lame if they are the ones who ultimately save the day.
Something tells me that Sasuke,Madara,and Obito will die.Then no one will have to forgive them. |
2013-04-11, 07:33 | Link #146 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Good chapter, but what is with all the Naruto cry babies?
Now naruto can't save sasuke....now naruto has to watch the hokage fight...yadda yadda yadda. Honestly, Naruto is not the strongest character in this series...Anyone who thought a 16 year old KID would become the strongest person to ever live has their heads in la la land. Naruto is still just a boy, just like everyone his age. Naruto's power won't even reach its max potential for another 10-15 years. So yeah, if you thought he could stop the legendary madara, obito, and the most destructive power to ever exist in the 10 tails without the help of the hokage, sasukes crew, and a entire army....Then you must be living in Madara's dream world already. |
2013-04-11, 08:19 | Link #147 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: U.S
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2013-04-11, 08:40 | Link #148 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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First of all, no. There are actual laws that prevent this in most civilized countries. If your commanding officer tells you to kill children and civilians, then not only are you allowed to object, you are required to. Instead, Itachi not only completed the job, but mentally tortured and abused his brother in the process...then he came back and did it again.
Second of all, you can't so casually dismiss such monstrous actions simply because Itachi was following orders, or because the end results were better because of his actions (arguably or not). Itachi is certainly a pitiful figure, placed in a no-win situation beyond his years or experiences to solve, but he is not a sympathetic figure in the slightest. Itachi did egregious injury to Sasuke for reasons that, while clear, are not really acceptable and should not be acceptable. Itachi, right now, is literally getting away with murder and torture for baffling and somewhat stupid reasons (Sasuke's love/obsession and because Itachi had the "will of fire"). Quote:
No, that is a fanatic (or just a sociopath). Being a soldier is not a clean job, but it is not a soulless job either. Last edited by james0246; 2013-04-11 at 09:19. |
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2013-04-11, 09:25 | Link #150 | ||
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Now Itachi wanted to stop a war, and Danzo only gave him the option to kill all the people that he loved so save a village and peace that he cherished. The Uchiha were the "bad guys", they wanted to start a war and end the peace that Hashirma dream about. I do agree that he didnt' have to mess his brother up in the way he did, but his intentions were good. So I guess the real question that we need to pose is " does the intent justify the means?" Quote:
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2013-04-11, 09:38 | Link #151 |
a random Indonesian otaku
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Xanadu
Age: 32
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I'm waiting for lots epic Kagami Uchiha's fanfic
although this is VERY lame.... I mean isn't it funny that we won't see Sasuke-Naruto's battle to death? maybe they will do it after this war but it just won't be same anymore well, forget about that... at least Itachi got a very big part in Naruto series from birth to death and even after-death.... I can't hide my excitement when I see 4 Hokages are standing on their own faces epic Sasuke-Naruto combi is coming |
2013-04-11, 10:02 | Link #152 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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There is really no need to draw the real world into the discussion. Kishimoto has specifically pointed out in the past that strictly following orders is not always ideal (in fact there are few times when strictly following orders was ideal). Specifically, Sakumo (Kakashi's father) was derided for not accomplishing his mission solely because he felt that preserving/saving his own troops was of greater importance than following orders. And while he was vilified by the nation for his actions, Kishimoto has spent a great deal of time arguing that Sakumo's decisions were not only the correct ones but what every shinobi should follow. So, Kishimoto has actually spent quite a large amount of time telling us that simply following orders means nothing in regards to the "Will of Fire" (which greatly undermines everything Itachi did).
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2013-04-11, 10:17 | Link #153 |
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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I kind of blame Kishi for his handling of the antagonists (its been terribly shortsighted and flipfloppy)
Granted, writing a compelling/convincing antagonist is not an easy thing to do. You can have the antagonist be a;
My main dissatisfaction with the manga has been Kishimoto’s handling of his protagonists. Orochimaru - Sociopath/Greed (when this became weak, Kishi muddied up the archetype by trying to give him hidden motivations. Whether this turns out to be idealist or revenge is not yet known) Pain – Was clearly a revenge based protagonist. Again kishi tried to spice up the character by giving him idealist dynamics. And this ruined pain’s character because the logic failed. (im felt pain, so I want to inflict maximum pain on other innocents so they stop fighting? Righttt). Itachi – Sociopath antagonist at the start, and then morphed into a protagonist. Mixed feelings here. The idea that Itachi would murder his clan to protect Konoha is believable. It was a very interesting twist. But the problem is that it is quite obvious Kishi made this decision retroactively once he had seen how popular Itachi was. As a consequence, the whole sasuke story went to dog-shit because Itachi’s actions were utterely nonsensical with regards to Sasuke himself. “I’ll mentally torture you so that you can ... what?” Sasuke – Protagonist who turns into antagonist with a clear and compelling revenge based story. Due to the retroactive re-write mentioned above, this later turns into an illogical sociopath story once he finds out the truth about Itachi. Madara – Revenge/ideogical. Cant make any judgements on him yet because I have a feeling more Madara information is forthcoming. Right now hes still an intriguing antagonist. That’s why the story has gotten so goofy. Kishi has no clear vision for his antagnosits. As I mentioned at the start, the best antagonists are those who are actually semi-antagonists which introduce a grey-area into the cheerleading section and make the story more compelling. Naruto-world is a fascinating one. Would have loved the manga to have been based Naruto’s ultimate destiny to unite the entire ninja-world into a unified whole that stopped fighting. All the antagnoists could have come in the form of semi-antagonists various ninja from other countries who opposed him for various revenge/greed/sociopath reasons. Within that greater framework, the tailed beasts, and sasuke’s revenge arc (etc) could have all been resolved nicely and still leave plenty of intriguing stuff. My 3 cents. |
2013-04-11, 10:21 | Link #154 | |
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There is no way I would keep a back stabber anywhere near me especially when he back stabbed EVERYONE he ever worked/met with. He doesn't give a shit about anyone except Itachi and could easily back stab again whenever he feels like it. He is an ass and needs to be punished in one way or another.
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2013-04-11, 10:37 | Link #155 |
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Seems like we may have a possible reason for the lack of Senju finally. The 2nd Hokage's dream was to have all clans disseminate into Konoha and be 'from' Konoha rather than say Uchiha or Senju for example.
He may have disbanded his own clan in the hopes that the others would follow his lead.
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2013-04-11, 12:25 | Link #156 | |||
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2013-04-11, 13:35 | Link #158 | ||
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
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I guess an insanity plea could be made indeed.
More seriously I'm not even going to start a Nuremberg defense/superior orders debate because it doesn't even apply to the situation. It wasn't a war, it wasn't a lawful order and most of what Itachi did to Sasuke wasn't an order at all and just something he set up to do by himself. The fact that he had no "ill-will" has also no bearing whatsoever on what he's done. If I were convinced that raping kids is good for them for whatever sick reason my demented mind could come up with it wouldn't excuse me in the slightest and wouldn't change the horror of my actions. As it is the only reason Itachi isn't regarded with the revulsion he deserves is because the author keeps stating through his others characters that he's a hero and a saint regardless of moral dissonance, because he did it for the sake of the side the readers are supposed to identify with and because he did it to the side people like to hate -mostly by association with Sasuke. Oh and he's a bishounen, were he an ugly bloke full of warts and an ugly smile we probably wouldn't even have this conversation. Quote:
Of course it also doesn't apply to the situation considering the killer in this case was his very brother and not some unknown figure in a foreign uniform. Quote:
I think we don't share the same definition of creative is all. |
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2013-04-11, 14:09 | Link #159 |
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People jump to conclusions too easily. Just because Sasuke wants to prevent the end of the world it does not mean he suddenly became friends with Naruto and konoha. I guess when the war ends he will face Naruto in a very similar way that Madara faced Hashirama. The only thing that was made clear in this chapter is that Sasuke is mentally much stronger than Obito, he didn't choose to run away into a dream world instead of dealing with reality.
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2013-04-11, 14:22 | Link #160 | |
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weekly spoiler discussion |
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