Toradora! - Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced Toradorians only)

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

I asked this in the B-T forums once but here it goes again:

Spoiler:

Does she ever really get over her crush on Kitamura or is it more that she just learns to accept that he doesn't share her feelings?

Spoiler:

Taiga gets over the crush in volume 7.

[wistfulloner]

Would I be wrong to say that in Ep7 there's some sort of prom going on?

[kyomagi]

Spoiler for Light Novel Vol 9:

This story has always and will end as ryujixtaiga. In the 9th vol of the light novel, and early on in the manga, Taiga realized she wants to stay around Ryuji.

Spoiler for Manga:

[houkoholic]

The manga scene doesn't show Taiga likes Ryuji romantically at that point at all, and of course from what happens in volume 7 proves plenty that she doesn't realise it at that point in time either during the confession as that scene was just lifted from the novel.

[kyomagi]

Right it just proves something just simmering at the surface. But it shows she likes being around Ryuji more than anyone

[roan]

Episode titles for 15-17

第15話「星は、遠く」 [The star is far]
第16話「踏み出す一歩」 [One step forward]
第17話「クリスマスに水星は逆行する」 [Mercury turns retrograde in Christmas]

15-16 will be handling volume 6, and 17 should mark the start of volume 7.

[Tyabann]

Oh thank god 14 is the only filler episode. YES.

Filler for this show so far has actually been pretty good, so I say bring it on.

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by roan

Episode titles for 15-17

第15話「星は、遠く」 [The star is far]
第16話「踏み出す一歩」 [One step forward]
第17話「クリスマスに水星は逆行する」 [Mercury turns retrograde in Christmas]

15-16 will be handling volume 6, and 17 should mark the start of volume 7.

If you read the novels, you will find those titles VERY familiar...

Very expected whats gonna happen in the first few episodes

[typhonsentra]

So.... they might actually try to cover book 10 even though it's not out yet. Kinda depressing as that implies they're confident the series will end there.

[Tyabann]

I'm pretty sure it will, actually, if it's as long as Book 5...

[typhonsentra]

It seems strange though, normally you'd think giving the ending away would hurt book sales.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

So.... they might actually try to cover book 10 even though it's not out yet. Kinda depressing as that implies they're confident the series will end there.

One volume dedicated to Taiga and Ryuji cementing their relationship is more than I can ask for already. There really isn't anymore to it from what volume 7,8,9 all builds up to. Unless we are talking about Clannad's style of a story, which ToraDora most definitely isn't, then I really don't see a need to further extend the story.

For the majority of the time, the best stories are told when there is a definite end/goal in the author's mind. The structure of ToraDora shows that it is a prime example of this kind of a story. If artificially extending the story's length to a second season just to please some fan craving means the integrity of the story is sacraficed in the process I would rather not have one at all.

Right now the package is nice and tight, and very well thought out and executed. I'm liking it just the way it is.

It seems strange though, normally you'd think giving the ending away would hurt book sales.

The ending of the anime would come out at around the same time as the book. Plus this isn't some mystery novel we are talking about, it's a love comedy series where anyone can already see the end pairing from the get go so giving away the ending is not going to hamper the enjoyment of it at all, because the enjoyment is in the path leading up to the ending.

[Tyabann]

Welp, I have nothing left to say about it, as houkoholic pretty much read my mind, and said it better than I ever could...

Yeah, just one more longer book and she can wrap it all up nicely, and we have a good, concrete, story.

[LeaD36]

I can already see the ending (TWGOK)

but i don´t wanna see it TT, this just had to be said at some point and

i never really got why it has to end as Taiga / Ryuuji, as far as i can see their relationship is on a familiy level, neither as husband and wife, nor as some pseudo father + daugher, much less siblings, somewhere around the lines of a close family relationship would be more accurate for those two IMO

the type of situations and feelings that would NOT ignite a romantic relationship

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by LeaD36

i never really got why it has to end as Taiga / Ryuuji, as far as i can see their relationship is on a familiy level, neither as husband and wife, nor as some pseudo father + daugher, much less siblings, somewhere around the lines of a close family relationship would be more accurate for those two IMO

Then you're wrong. It's that simple.

That's not how the author saw it, clearly. And the author is, by definition, always right.

[houkoholic]

A family relationship between two people that are not related points to something very special, something much more than just the initial flirting between male-female of a romance.

If you really think about it, when a couple settles down after the initial flirting stage, what follows is exactly that sort of relationship that Taiga and Ryuji has. That is how to live together, support each other, compliment each other, care for each other, and accept each other.

Ryuji and Taiga had reached that point, it is a sign of a long lasting relationship and something much more concrete than just flirting between a boy and a girl. They already have the most precious thing to them, they just don't know it yet because they've taken it for granted. All they need is to go through the "you don't know what's precious until you lose it" phase and all the sparks will fly.

[roan]

Yeah, it's really more or less the way how houkaholic described it.
恋 vs. 愛 is the way how it's been described before.

[Darknemo2000]

I guess it is more like a difference between love and platonic love (love where you are spiritually connected but do not need to be a couple).

But then bringing them as a couple is pointless. They have their relationship build, so all holding hands, hugging or kissing is pointless and they can never be a couple in a real love. Since according to you they already skipped that phase, but oppositely to you I believe it to be a bad thing.

As it probably would make them to break up eventually. Because no matter how spiritually one is connected without physical relationship this love between two souls becomes artificial eventually.

Plato himself stated that spiritual love without physical relationship will never bring you closer to Love Eidos (his final purpose of ultimate love). Without physical relationship this spiritual connection will start to fade away eventually.

Considering that Plato was such a big idealist it must have some truth in it. Personally a believe that just ideal relationship is just as much screwed up as only physical one. If Taiga and Ryuuji never become a real couple (as in in physical sense) their love future is under a big question mark. Pure spiritual love and connection between two similar souls is an artificial replacement if true love which has to include both - same physical relationship (or as Haukaholic called it flirting) and spiritual connection. Bringing one above another is not love evolving, but rather devolving.

If the novels are empathizing on this and never show us physical connection, then it is advertising another form of dysfunctional love, which looks good in romantic poetry and dreams but sadly is very easy to fade away. You always have to water the flower, or else it will fade away...

I think of love as a tree, the spiritual love, is the sun and air that tree needs to grow, while phsyical realationship is like water helping feeding the tree from below. Only advertising for the sun or for the water is not the way a real relationship should be. It is always a middle.

[wistfulloner]

Or, they might end it all by showing Ryuji and Taiga accepting each other as sort of "soulmates and companions", but leave it to the viewer to determine the future direction of their relationship. This way, it isn't ambiguous, but allows the viewer to dream a little.

[Darknemo2000]

wistfulloner, this is the ambiguity I am talking about. Because they do not show much physical connection between them, this leaves for us to imagine, but the way their relationship is and the way author wants to present it - is unhealthy, dysfunctional relationship as a couple that cannot last for a longer period of time and break-up will happen (doesn't mean that they would stop being soul-mates, just love other people, because what they have between them right now is not love at all).

If the author would not make them a couple and Ryuuji would go out with Minori or Ami and Taiga would find someone else (not Kitamura as his heart is taken) then yes - this would be a nice picture of soul connection and there would be nothing dysfunctional in it, but since author looks like is trying to force an actual coupling, and if it ends at such note without giving an actual physical connection, then she just creates another example of dysfunctional couple.

It looks nice in poetry books and all that, but this is not the way relationship work.

Actually it is a problem of a lot of anime's not just Toradora's, but at least in a lot of them there is at least some elements of physical relationship (even if quite a bit of them are rather vague) while in Toradora, though Ryuuji and Taiga are close, their physical closeness is not one of the poeple in love.

That is why I am so much against forcing them as a couple without showing physical connection of some sort (that would have poeple in love elements in it). Making them into a couple without much of physical connection is dooming them both and their relationship as couple.

You could say that that all that can happen later and we just have to imagine it happening. But then you could point out at any pairing that isnt a pairing at all and say - they will be nice couple, so what if there is nothing implying that, just go and imagine them to be so.