2011-02-04, 07:14 | Link #302 | |
Me at work
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Probably doesn't mean much beyond shaft knowing we're all paranoid and throwing random stuff at us.
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2011-02-04, 07:29 | Link #303 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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It's harder to have everything changed than keeping the same background, after all. |
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2011-02-04, 07:45 | Link #304 |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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If I were to presume that the speculation of Homura being a tired and jaded version of Madoka from the future coming back to stop everything from occurring, I actually suspect that the entire process may be an indirect eternal cycle of the universe being forced to recur on itself. A recurring universe possibly consisting of an endless cycle of Madokas becoming Homuras, wishing in each cycle to restart the process and try to stop her earlier self from entering the system and becoming cursed inside an eternal circle of trial.
In essence my apparent belief comes from how it may be possible that this entire cycle has been occurring on for god knows how many times already; it may be possible that this isn't the first time a Homura tried to stop a Madoka from entering the cursed existence of an MG. This could be a few dozens to a few hundreds to maybe even thousands. Minor events may be different but the core is the same: The current universe's Homura fails to save the Madoka of that universe -> Homura dies/injured in the process (and/or possibly informing Madoka of the truth) -> Madoka enters her pact with her wish of restoring the past and stopping herself -> Becomes the next jaded Homura -> Homura restores time to a different universe before she becomes an MG -> She tries to stop Madoka from becoming an MG. Fundamentally it has the same notion of eternal recurrence, albeit a shorter one with one person initiating the return with some or full memories of the previous occurrence (Homura) in an effort to stop a distinct event from occurring and, in short, alter the fate of that time frame's history and break free from the bond that shackles them and forces them to relive it over and over again. You may have seen it in the Xenosaga series and Higurashi. Madoka's first dream, and I suspect succeeding dreams, suggest that she is starting to either recall a distant memory she should not otherwise even know in this current time frame, or she's starting to see omens of the future. As it stands I have this feeling that this is an anomaly: if Madoka were to tell Homura about her dreams and Homura were to realize that she herself did not possess such dreams or memories of the past, then this indicates itself to be a new development, something that is a new development in the cycle. Assuming that this is indeed a recurring cycle and not just one reset, then it is indicative that memories are crossing over each reset and allowing the next reincarnations preemptive knowledge of events and increasing the chance that the cycle could be broken. The abject and ludicrous amount of power that Homura possibly possesses though indicates that she's been doing this WAAAY longer than everyone else, which can support of course that she might have been doing this for more than one cycle, either as the same Homura or the next Madoka-Homura incarnation that inherits the capacities of the previous one.
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Last edited by MeoTwister5; 2011-02-04 at 08:09. |
2011-02-04, 09:27 | Link #305 |
Stupidity is Bliss.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In Hancock's Heart
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@MeoTwister
tbh, i've actually thought of all these to be an unstoppable hellish cycle of doom before as well. but never tried to really ponder over it since it might cause some of my braincells to explode. L0L. but pretty much, i am agreeing to this theory. it's akin to kannazuki no miko but w/ the hope of breaking the cycle. KnM never broke it..hence, 'we all fall in love all over again'.. i am hoping madoka ends differently from it.XD |
2011-02-04, 09:55 | Link #306 |
Stupidity is Bliss.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In Hancock's Heart
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@Triple_R
WHOA! 0_o srsly man, your theory is REALLY MAKING SENSE! it's so close to being a FACT that i think i had my mind blown!! xD Yes, the physical differences they had is the only hole to it.but man, i'm giving you 100O stars with this awesome speculation. i'm just kinda sad that my homura-madoka fantasy just got trashed. L0L. so there's really no nanofate here. EXCELLENT WORK Triple_R! xD |
2011-02-04, 10:20 | Link #307 | ||
~Official Slacker~
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 29
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Kyuubey has always been interested in Madoka because she somehow has a hidden power within her. Is this probably due to her wishing for time to reset possibly? That she somehow gains more and more power stored up inside her with each time reset? Quote:
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2011-02-04, 10:39 | Link #308 | |
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The main question with "Homura = future Madoka" is if it's part of an Endless Eight-style vicious time cycle, or if this is just future Madoka/Homura's one shot. I'm definitely keeping an open mind there. For now, though, I think I will go with "Homura = future Madoka" until/unless something comes up in a future episode to rule it out. It really does fit quite nicely, imo. Oh, and for what it's worth, maybe Homura is into "self-cest", lol.
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2011-02-04, 10:52 | Link #309 | |||
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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I largely agree with your interpretation, but there is a point I see differently: Quote:
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2011-02-04, 11:10 | Link #311 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Funky theory time: Homura's bland way of speaking comes from her never being a human, but her being Madoka's familiar (the same way a witch can have a familiar).
Given that she is a construct, it would make sense that her power has to do with reconstructing. |
2011-02-04, 11:16 | Link #312 |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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Triple_R's theory does sort of reinforce the possibility that she's been doing this for a long time and possibly even more than once. I have some doubts that one reset could turn Madoka into a very cold-hearted and pragmatic Homura in one reset. Hell, it's even possible that my eternal recurrence theory suggests that Mami freaking DIES in every cycle and she hasn't decided to figure out a way to stop it, possibly believing that perhaps every death of Mami in every cycle helps sway her away from being an MG.
Then again, if she's been doing this for a while, then clearly it hasn't worked well enough as she wanted.
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2011-02-04, 11:30 | Link #313 | |||
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However, I honestly don't think that this is Urobuchi being intentionally misleading, because like you said, for those who haven't watched Fate/Stay Night, it's not that obvious. Quote:
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Yep, big time, lol.
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2011-02-04, 11:52 | Link #314 | |
Uncaring
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Personally i think her manner of speaking is a way to protect Madoka. She doesn't want Madoka to feel attached to her and later feel a need to be a mahou shoujo to save her. Probably she will feel its ok if Madoka hates her though it would hurt. |
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2011-02-04, 12:07 | Link #316 |
a random Indonesian otaku
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Xanadu
Age: 32
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well, I'm starting to hate Kyubey..... XD
It's already clear that the real villain is Kyubey because he won't stop until Madoka became a mahou shoujo I wonder what will happen if actually Madoka become a mahou shoujo?? Will Kyubey dissappear?? |
2011-02-04, 12:33 | Link #317 |
Senior Member
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I actually can't stop thinking about this show, lol. I keep rewatching the OP and parts of various episodes over and over again looking for hints.
After doing so, I have some more speculations (bordering much closer to the "wild" side, I'll admit) that I want to share: Spoiler for Some speculations based on the OP:
Spoiler for Some speculations based on a rewatch of Episode 2:
So, what do people think of these two wild speculations?
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2011-02-04, 12:45 | Link #318 |
Name means little...
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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An endless recursion à la Homuraization of Madoka has a strange draw to me personally. The parallel drawn with Emiya Shirou et Archer is quite valid, but please be reminded of Kaijo's cautionary note of cake is cake and that the prima facie differences between Madoka and Homura really does mean exactly that; Homura and Madoka have no relation. Where I lean at this moment, for the matter of clarification is that Gen could potentially echo Fate series...
About the death of Mami, there is no doubt that Homura was surprised, so there exists sufficiently strong evidence that this occurrence was not foreseen for some reason. To add to Triple_R, Homura might have intentionally played to the mental state of Sayaka and Madoka by seizing the grief seed in that fashion as well. On Homura being a familiar, it can only be speculated if it is established that magical girls can have their independent familiar(s) in this story. Before that point, such is only a notion. Nevertheless, the visual clues within that terribly misleading OP does make one wonder, if only a little, towards this direction. To the subject matter on that there are 'dark' counterparts to Kyubey, we have equally tabled that Kyubey himself might be a harbinger of curses in equal part to wishes. At the moment, there is nothing to suggest Kyubey working against an opposite for us to come to any definite conclusion whatsoever. For that matter, we do not even know how exactly are curses manifested into witches... so all we can realistically do is to take account of this being a potential development. So, to answer Triple_R, the matter of Prolog im Himmel interpretation in your theory is further complicated by the fact that our witch in question uses gears as her crown or 'symbol', which Sayaka does not. The analysis of the said witch in Prolog im Himmel has led to doubts that this said witch is indeed Sayaka after all, with the cape and whatnot... However, this matter has been debated heavily even in speculah threads due to the fact that the magical girls' or witchs' unique identifier being just that, apparently unique. Personally, you have added a decent amount of fuel to the fire of Sayaka being the embodiment of destruction argument, and for that I would say that your points would not be discountable totally at this point.
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2011-02-04 at 13:00. Reason: answering Triple_R |
2011-02-04, 12:56 | Link #319 | |
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I'm actually not that fond of my wild speculation there on an emotional level, as I do like Sayaka a lot, but I am fond of them on an intellectual level. Simply put, I think it would make for a very gripping and interesting story, not that I have much doubt that Madoka Magica will be that anyway. I also prefer this wild speculation to the perhaps more predictable outcome of Sayaka simply getting killed, and that driving Madoka off the deep end. Anyway, I'm just throwing it all out there for the sheer fun of talking about this show, lol.
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2011-02-04, 13:05 | Link #320 | |
Banned
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Although I do have to say, I like your idea of a dark Kyube. It is mentioned that witches are born from curses just like MG's are born from wishes, so this kinda puts the nail in the coffin of "an MG will turn into a witch." There are two sides of a coin being played out here. It would be incredibly amusing, too, to see the reaction on the board to find out there is a darker version of Kyube out there creating witches. Thus, the one we know isn't evil, but doing the opposite to try and stop his counterpart. Which would make Kyube good. Oh, the wailing and gnashing of teeth would be amusing, heh. I'm just waiting for one of the characters to really grill Kyube on everything, ie, where do witches really come from, what kind of limits are there on wishing if any, where does he come from, etc. It always annoys me when there is one character there who can explain stuff if asked... but no one seems to ask the questions. |
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madoka magica |
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