AnimeSuki Forums

ZeroXSEED · 2012-03-27, 23:15

Not necessarily, I was talking about that as metaphor such as "But it'll be X, even though Y is Z, doesn't mean X equal Z" etc.

Eratas123 · 2012-03-27, 23:17

Ah, you mean how differently they view things?

ZeroXSEED · 2012-03-27, 23:22

Yes, that.

Eratas123 · 2012-03-27, 23:27

In your opinion, when does someone go from anti-hero to VP?

ZeroXSEED · 2012-03-27, 23:31

Errrr.... what?

Eratas123 · 2012-03-27, 23:38

The line bertween Anti-hero and Villain Protagonist is thin. In your opinion, when does someone cross that line?

ZeroXSEED · 2012-03-27, 23:46

Subjective and relative.

I dunno, maybe Anti-Hero is just that, they're a genuine hero that do heroic things, with a slander of unheroic deeds. In case of Villain Protagonist though, almost everyone agree he is decidedly evil, and the circumstances allow them.

You threw me accelerator as example, I'm not familiar with him, but Leather Pants aside, everyone I asked about described him as decent anti-hero in spite of the arson and murder spree, plain because everyone making his life hell.

Eratas123 · 2012-03-27, 23:54

So it depends on circumstance? Say a person who murders blatantly is a villain in an Idealistic world but an Anti-hero in a crapsack one?

ZeroXSEED · 2012-03-27, 23:56

Again, depends.

Death Note is a Crapsack World, but the Anti-Hero is L, Light is an obvious Villain no matter what. Rance is a serial rapist, but in his kind of world (rape = depending on circumstances), he is the Anti Hero and our main character.

I'm somewhat confused with my own standard in that line. Ichika was my first Anti Hero so far (Angry, ignorant, and at certain times ruthless), with the others following his template.

Eratas123 · 2012-03-28, 00:13

So what type of Anti-hero s ST Ichika?

ZeroXSEED · 2012-03-28, 00:33

I guess current Ichika is Type 2 (Happy, ignorant snarker with hidden problem), lapses to Type 3 sometimes (angry pack lead). In the flashback, Ichika is full blown type 3 (Cynical paragon).

HasuMasu · 2012-03-28, 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

Image Interface weapon are crippingly overspecialized and immobilize the unit immediately. Fold-Out armor took more energy needed than to summon equalizer, improvement my ass.

1. [Shenlong] and [Silverio Gospel] can both move while using their main weapons.
2. Despite what you said about mobility, image-interface weapons are still the best in IS vs. IS combat.
3. Simply using the Fold-out Armor doesn't eat that much energy, if at all.
4. I assume you got that idea from what Houki said in V6, she simply meant that using [Akatsubaki]'s speed-mode at full power will eat up too much energy without [Kenran Butou]--but only if you use it at full power, notice how she keeps switching modes in V7 and only had to use [Kenran Butou] to replenish the energy of other units...namely Ichika's.

Eratas123 · 2012-03-28, 00:49

Ichika seems more of a type 4 in the backstory. Violence begets violence is the main thing.

ZeroXSEED · 2012-03-28, 00:56

Maybe that apply, I actually afraid he was being a jerk sue or something.

@ Box
Hmm, I reread it and apparently the weakness only appears because Akatsubaki still incomplete.

HasuMasu · 2012-03-28, 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

Maybe that apply, I actually afraid he was being a jerk sue or something.

@ Box
Hmm, I reread it and apparently the weakness only appears because Akatsubaki still incomplete.

And for that matter, Byakkushiki is too.

Tabane must have a thing for incomplete units...

Eratas123 · 2012-03-28, 01:30

How is he a jerk sue?

ZeroXSEED · 2012-03-28, 01:43

I mean mistaken for a Jerk sue.

Frankly, Ichika IS Karma Houdini. The four student he wantonly brutalize kicked out of the school, Ichika himself out of mess because the student body protected him.

Granted, Ichika never himself bullying people for the lulz, the weaker student being apathetic/cowardly about their bullying (until Ichika inspires them to take up arms and unite, that is), and the teacher is only short of blind and deaf about the crapsack situation of the school. Guess it's better Tyrannical president than pointless liberal anarchy.

(His action also more or less give a heavy jab to the school staffs, who immediately fix the school's attitude and discipline, unable to close their eyes and plug their ears anymore)

His treatment of Tatenashi in V5 does not help, it's all misunderstanding and their relationship got much better after the fight with Autumn, big time.

I am confused which one is understandable or which is shallow justification, so I'll left it to reader to judge.

FlameSparkZ · 2012-03-28, 01:51

I've been away for so long, I no longer know what's going on

I'll try to stay up-to-date with this place's fast pace, but won't be posting anything yet...already have plans for next month

Eratas123 · 2012-03-28, 01:51

Jerkass =/= Jerk Sue. It only gets to that point when

1. They NEVER get comeuppance.

2. Everybody is fine with it in-story.

3. Most egregiously, if the canon characterization gets altered so that they're fine with it. For example: A mage who's abusive with his powers and extremely unstable gets a pass from a Knight Templar Mage hunter.

ZeroXSEED · 2012-03-28, 02:00

@ Flame
Still active at Nanoha forum?

@ Eras
1. Ichika did, in other form, mostly self torture though, simply because he has no way to fix what broken in the past, especially to the peasant he turned into brutal soldiers. And the fact that every time he walked outside, there's always a good chance he met his old enemies...

2. Charles called him out, Ran and Cecilia is horrified (and Ran is in denial, being a fangirl avatar she is), Rin only approves because she knew the reason (She was the victim he avenged), and Houki's case would be hypocritical. Laura Congratulated him, which of course is a compliment backfire, if not a sarcastic joke... only Madoka is neutral, but that's about it, she's still saddened not knowing about it.

3. Uhh, granted he never go that far

2012-03-27, 23:15	Link #27481
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Not necessarily, I was talking about that as metaphor such as "But it'll be X, even though Y is Z, doesn't mean X equal Z" etc. __________________

2012-03-27, 23:17	Link #27482
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Ah, you mean how differently they view things? __________________

2012-03-27, 23:22	Link #27483
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Yes, that. __________________

2012-03-27, 23:27	Link #27484
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	In your opinion, when does someone go from anti-hero to VP? __________________

2012-03-27, 23:31	Link #27485
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Errrr.... what? __________________

2012-03-27, 23:38	Link #27486
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	The line bertween Anti-hero and Villain Protagonist is thin. In your opinion, when does someone cross that line? __________________

2012-03-27, 23:46	Link #27487
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Subjective and relative. I dunno, maybe Anti-Hero is just that, they're a genuine hero that do heroic things, with a slander of unheroic deeds. In case of Villain Protagonist though, almost everyone agree he is decidedly evil, and the circumstances allow them. You threw me accelerator as example, I'm not familiar with him, but Leather Pants aside, everyone I asked about described him as decent anti-hero in spite of the arson and murder spree, plain because everyone making his life hell. __________________

2012-03-27, 23:54	Link #27488
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	So it depends on circumstance? Say a person who murders blatantly is a villain in an Idealistic world but an Anti-hero in a crapsack one? __________________

2012-03-27, 23:56	Link #27489
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Again, depends. Death Note is a Crapsack World, but the Anti-Hero is L, Light is an obvious Villain no matter what. Rance is a serial rapist, but in his kind of world (rape = depending on circumstances), he is the Anti Hero and our main character. I'm somewhat confused with my own standard in that line. Ichika was my first Anti Hero so far (Angry, ignorant, and at certain times ruthless), with the others following his template. __________________

2012-03-28, 00:13	Link #27490
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	So what type of Anti-hero s ST Ichika? __________________

2012-03-28, 00:33	Link #27491
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	I guess current Ichika is Type 2 (Happy, ignorant snarker with hidden problem), lapses to Type 3 sometimes (angry pack lead). In the flashback, Ichika is full blown type 3 (Cynical paragon). __________________

2012-03-28, 00:49	Link #27493
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Ichika seems more of a type 4 in the backstory. Violence begets violence is the main thing. __________________

2012-03-28, 00:56	Link #27494
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Maybe that apply, I actually afraid he was being a jerk sue or something. @ Box Hmm, I reread it and apparently the weakness only appears because Akatsubaki still incomplete. __________________ Last edited by ZeroXSEED; 2012-03-28 at 01:08.

2012-03-28, 01:30	Link #27496
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	How is he a jerk sue? __________________

2012-03-28, 01:43	Link #27497
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	I mean mistaken for a Jerk sue. Frankly, Ichika IS Karma Houdini. The four student he wantonly brutalize kicked out of the school, Ichika himself out of mess because the student body protected him. Granted, Ichika never himself bullying people for the lulz, the weaker student being apathetic/cowardly about their bullying (until Ichika inspires them to take up arms and unite, that is), and the teacher is only short of blind and deaf about the crapsack situation of the school. Guess it's better Tyrannical president than pointless liberal anarchy. (His action also more or less give a heavy jab to the school staffs, who immediately fix the school's attitude and discipline, unable to close their eyes and plug their ears anymore) His treatment of Tatenashi in V5 does not help, it's all misunderstanding and their relationship got much better after the fight with Autumn, big time. I am confused which one is understandable or which is shallow justification, so I'll left it to reader to judge. __________________

2012-03-28, 01:51	Link #27498
FlameSparkZ the "Z" is for "Zeta" Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Portugal	I've been away for so long, I no longer know what's going on I'll try to stay up-to-date with this place's fast pace, but won't be posting anything yet...already have plans for next month __________________ My Lazy Pixiv Page \| Twitter

2012-03-28, 01:51	Link #27499
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Jerkass =/= Jerk Sue. It only gets to that point when 1. They NEVER get comeuppance. 2. Everybody is fine with it in-story. 3. Most egregiously, if the canon characterization gets altered so that they're fine with it. For example: A mage who's abusive with his powers and extremely unstable gets a pass from a Knight Templar Mage hunter. __________________

2012-03-28, 02:00	Link #27500
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	@ Flame Still active at Nanoha forum? @ Eras 1. Ichika did, in other form, mostly self torture though, simply because he has no way to fix what broken in the past, especially to the peasant he turned into brutal soldiers. And the fact that every time he walked outside, there's always a good chance he met his old enemies... 2. Charles called him out, Ran and Cecilia is horrified (and Ran is in denial, being a fangirl avatar she is), Rin only approves because she knew the reason (She was the victim he avenged), and Houki's case would be hypocritical. Laura Congratulated him, which of course is a compliment backfire, if not a sarcastic joke... only Madoka is neutral, but that's about it, she's still saddened not knowing about it. 3. Uhh, granted he never go that far __________________