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View Poll Results: Who’s Under the Mask? | |||
Madara | 104 | 32.91% | |
Madara’s Son | 14 | 4.43% | |
Madara’s Clone | 30 | 9.49% | |
Madara’s Ghost/Soul/Poltergeist given shape... | 33 | 10.44% | |
Obito | 59 | 18.67% | |
Obito’s Body, but not really Obito... | 55 | 17.41% | |
Someone else’s body (not Obito’s)... | 21 | 6.65% | |
Zetsu’s Love Child... | 23 | 7.28% | |
Tobirama/Sarutobi/or anyone with a 'tobi' in their name... | 16 | 5.06% | |
Bruce Wayne or other… | 69 | 21.84% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 316. You may not vote on this poll |
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2010-07-27, 16:51 | Link #281 | |
Kaiba
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: David Tennant's bedroom in the TARDIS
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The Izanagi theory is a good one. It would make sense and explain the one eye thing, as you said...a distinct possibility!! I don't think the hair means anything, unless it was perhaps a way of disguising himself.
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2010-07-27, 17:13 | Link #282 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Now that a new page has started, I will post again .
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Consequently, I heavily weigh their observations when coming to a conclusion. (Yes, this could constitute a potential appeal to authority, but for 3 separate (intelligent) characters to all come to a similar conclusion independent of each other bears some weight and helps to alleviate the potential fallacy of appealing strictly to authority.) (Additionally, there is one other that has seen Tobi's face, but calls him Madara. I speak, of course, of Kisame, who was shown Tobi's face and addressed the person behind the mask as Madara. Now, this isn't 100% confirmation of anything, considering that Obito/Izuna/etc could have simply told others that his name was "Madara", but the fact that Kisame acounts Tobi as "Madara", is certainly servicable support.) Quote:
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That being said, since the data books act as encyclopedias of facts and hints, placing everything into context and often providing new "hints"; their weight as evidence is just as valid, if not more so in some instances, than just ambiguous hints in the week to week manga chapters (specifically, in one case, you have a potential ambiguous image or moment, but in the books you have actual explanations that commonly leave some ambiguity when they discuss events yet to be shown). (Obviously you will disagree with this, and it is a point of contention between us that will undoubtedly persist.) Quote:
Specifically, up until 2008 or so, I believed the Tobi=Obito theory to have a good chance of becoming canon (bear in mind, Tobi wasn't important until after the 2nd Deidara battle); I still felt it was a red herring (much the same as many of the Danzou theories), but with the evidence on hand, it was a compelling theory (and the theory I would start with, and try to “disprove”). But, with the introduction of the plot twist of Madara (whose name and actions had been foreshadowed before Obito was even introduced), I weighed the new data and found the Tobi=Obito was not as complete as I thought. And as time went by, and the Tobi=Obito argument started devolving to simple comparisons (hair, height, and other physical appearance arguments), while more and more info about Madara (or at least information presented that a person like Madara was more likely to posses), it appeared less and less likely that Obito was connected to Tobi (or at least not connected in any direct way). Finally, with the release of the third data book, which acknowledged Tobi as Madara and Madara as Tobi, I was forced to acknowledge that Obito did not fit the current evidence (there was still evidence to support him being Tobi, but I found it to "weigh" less than Madara=Tobi), consequently I was forced to draw the evidence to its natural conlusion (Madara=Tobi), and go back to the drawing board with the new "conclusion" that Madara=Tobi. From there, I could then start the "experiment" over again looking for new discrepancies and new evidence that would contradict the new theory of Madara=Tobi (for instance, I always found the theory of Madara simply being alive (due to "strong chakra") to be lacking, so when the connection between Zetsu and Tobi was revealed, I slowly began to see it is a way to explain much of Madara's little problems (being weaker, not using MS, etc), but the inclusion of Zetsu still didn't detract from Madara=Tobi, rather it potentially added to it). (I reject Obito in your theory, mostly because it seems so pointless (and not just because Obito presents no real character development for the leads). If all Madara/Zetsu needed was a Uchiha body, there were undoubtedly far better bodies that a master spy/stealth expert could have picked up. The use of a dead Obito just seems so random when there is an entire clan of better choices...This doesn't mean that I think Obito is an impossible choice though, I just find it unlikely considering much of the evidence.) Quote:
This is probably the most relevant question you've asked. Not to disparage your other questions and answers, but this one is actually unanswerable since it is completely unknown what Madara did during those 40+ years of seemingly inactivity. I could speculate that Madara became Mizukage sometime during this time, but it is unknown when Madara/Tobi became Mizukage, and it is unknown when he left, so such speculation is impossible. But, that doesn't necessitate Obito's appearance at all (for obvious reasons). In the end, there is really only one piece of evidence that I can really use to call into question the theory of Madara=Tobi, and that is the mask. As you said in a previous post, "Why does he wear a mask?" is an important question, and for quite awhile I merely accounted the mask as a precaution against any potential fail-safe from Itachi placed in Sasuke (I've also claimed that the mask and hidden face could simply be a red herring to keep the reader's off balance and always questioning Tobi's motives (because, without the mask or the "mystery", Madara is a fairly "simplistic" villain). But, with Sasuke's eye transplant (and wearing bandages for the time being), the mask is a bigger question than ever. And when you add this with his reaction to Kabuto's summon, I definitely felt there was, at last, some real evidence that could call into question Tobi's alleged identity (obviously you've felt that other evidence (Zetsu calling him Tobi; some physical similarities; etc) was sufficient, but I did not). Quote:
But, one quick point, whatever face Tobi/Madara was going to show Sasuke back in 397, had to be a face Sasuke could accept as potentially being Madara. Consequently, either we have to call the face into question (i.e. since Tobi is somehow related to Zetsu, it is possible that the face can change...in which case it is impossible to speculate as to Tobi's identity), or the face is somehow relatable enough to Sasuke to convey "Madara". So, if the face is too youthful, I imagine that Sasuke would be less likely to believe what he was being told (it is one thing to take "Madara's" advice at face value (pun intended), it is another to take a stranger’s advice (even if they have a Sharingan) at face value). Honestly, besides the eyes, which are the same for all Uchiha, there isn't much there that is actually similar. The eye shape is completely different. The eye brow is completely different. Hell, so are the ears. The hair is similar though (this was one of the first arguments to support Tobi=Obito). Last edited by james0246; 2010-07-28 at 01:19. |
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2010-08-05, 09:06 | Link #283 |
Kaiba
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: David Tennant's bedroom in the TARDIS
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I had a thought.
Maybe it's someone else entirely, but using Madara's body! I don't know how i feel about this. I think it's unlikely but possible... Like, after the battle in which he was supposed to be dead, maybe this person found his body and took it over or whatever. and Kabuto maybe knew and that was teh 'secret' he spoke of.
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2010-08-05, 09:27 | Link #284 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Behind You!
Age: 33
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why kishi had to hide his face if he is a comepletely new character??? Tobi must be someone we really know! IMO.... tobi cannot be Madara since we have already seen Madara's face... because that would not make sense why kshi is hiding his face.... even if tobi is hiding something in his left eye., it would still not make sense why kishi is hiding his face...
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2010-08-05, 12:07 | Link #285 |
Lurker Mode
Join Date: Dec 2007
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I've gone through a lot of possibilities to try and come up with a theory that Tobi is someone else, but it always comes back around. It cannot NOT be Madara. He knows too much, he talks about Uchiha and Senju, the destined rivalry, the history, the secrets, everything. I've even tried the possiblity that it might be his brother, but going back and reading his conversations as if that were true just doesn't fit. Madara's token facial feature is the small bag underneath his eyes. This is seen when he takes off his mask. The reason he wears it and probably the biggest reason, is secrecy. It's the core of what he probably believes ninjas are all about. Similar to Danzou's scolding to Sasuke.
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2010-08-05, 18:07 | Link #286 | |
The First Rasengan!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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2010-08-05, 20:12 | Link #287 | |
Kaiba
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: David Tennant's bedroom in the TARDIS
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and why hide his face? we don't know. He could have had something to do with Madara, in any case. and it was just an idle thought in any case
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2010-08-18, 09:22 | Link #291 |
The First Rasengan!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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yeah but solid evidence wont come until there is an explicit reveal in the manga of Tobi's character. since that hasnt happen I cant say with confidence Tobi=Madara...true he as been referred to as uchiha madara, but until the mask comes off, other assumptions can be made.
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2010-08-18, 19:13 | Link #292 | |
Kaiba
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: David Tennant's bedroom in the TARDIS
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I think that most other ideas (besides possibly having a connection with Obito or Zetsu) don't even make sense. But that's just me. Overall I think that he is, or at least has some connection with, Madara. Since the most evidence, though not really "so rock solid it counts as PROOF", suggests that he is Madara (or has some connection with him) and there is very little or no evidence that he is anyone else.
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2010-08-18, 22:57 | Link #293 |
Kitty?
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 33
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Up until recently, I was thinking Tobi is definitely Madara, but all the recent clues (especially his interactions with Kabuto) makes me want him to be someone else.
I just think it would be a great twist if this was some other ninja (preferably Madara's brother) who took Madara's death as an opportunity to seize his identity. I especially like the idea of him keeping all of those extra eyes due to some paranoia that he'll have his current ones stolen again. That said, he's probably just Madara anyway. :P |
2010-08-19, 21:37 | Link #294 | |
The First Rasengan!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Paraphrased example: Minato: the only one capable of this level of attack is uchiha madara. but he is long dead... Tobi: i wouldnt say that... Minato: well it doesnt matter who you are. if you are here to destroy the leaf, i have to stop you (we never get a definite answer) tobi is connected with madara. i'll side with that. i just think the reveal will be a little more than simple...
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2010-08-19, 22:41 | Link #296 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Having seen the fight with Madara against the 4th Hokage. Do you think the Tobi/Madara character we see in the manga have other abilities of Sharingan like Amaratatsu, Tsykiyomi and Susanoo?
With the Eye of the Moon plan, it's implied he has Tsukiyomi, but why does he not use it more abundantly to avoid fights?
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2010-08-19, 22:56 | Link #297 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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2010-08-20, 10:08 | Link #299 | |
The First Rasengan!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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anyways, this is my take on why tobi doesnt use MS powers
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