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Old 2011-03-25, 06:29   Link #3021
Tiresias
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Augusto, the Wolfram's main weapon.
That's one. But the claim was "magic-powered weaponry isn't exactly less common than sand", so backing that up would require more example
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Old 2011-03-25, 06:50   Link #3022
Arcc
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Well, I suppose there are surprisingly few examples of weapons on inspection. Not a lot of vehicle-mounted weapons or artillery, though we don't see an awful lot of vehicles, period. Most mages use their own power via a device when it comes to personal combat. But consider what we do see: Precia's robots and the target drones on the training course do use magic attacks. And practically everything that's worth defending to somebody has a barrier. Heck, all of the tech in this era is magic-powered, and they don't have mages running on hamster wheels for that. You could go the distopian, Matrixesque route of saying they having mages hooked up in series inside their generators, but I ain't reading that fic.

So why not let drones shoot magic lasers? Frankly, there's no accounting for Spagghetti's demented tastes, so it could be either sort of weapon, but the drones are magical. They kinda need to be to generate AMF, which is just another type of magic barrier. (StrikerS manga chapter 2, page 10)
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Old 2011-03-25, 07:34   Link #3023
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Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
I don't think AMF is illegal per se.



Those are banned outright. I think Fate explains that in a StrikerS episode, though I don't remember which one. However, physical weapons were only part of Type IV and, possibly, Type II (the air-to-air missiles).



Only as long as they are actual Lost Logia. Those are to be turned over to the Bureau (see first seasons). I think only Type III were powered by them, however.



I don't think those are illegal per se, either...
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How about their lasers?
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Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
I am not sure those are not magical...
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Well, I suppose there are surprisingly few examples of weapons on inspection. Not a lot of vehicle-mounted weapons or artillery, though we don't see an awful lot of vehicles, period. Most mages use their own power via a device when it comes to personal combat. But consider what we do see: Precia's robots and the target drones on the training course do use magic attacks. And practically everything that's worth defending to somebody has a barrier. Heck, all of the tech in this era is magic-powered, and they don't have mages running on hamster wheels for that. You could go the distopian, Matrixesque route of saying they having mages hooked up in series inside their generators, but I ain't reading that fic.

So why not let drones shoot magic lasers? Frankly, there's no accounting for Spagghetti's demented tastes, so it could be either sort of weapon, but the drones are magical. They kinda need to be to generate AMF, which is just another type of magic barrier. (StrikerS manga chapter 2, page 10)
Let me explain the purpose of my main question: Why were Gadget Drones illegal?
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Old 2011-03-25, 07:56   Link #3024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Let me explain the purpose of my main question: Why were Gadget Drones illegal?
Answer - we don't know. It's possible (though not likely) that they were legal, just Jail actions with them were not.
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Old 2011-03-25, 08:58   Link #3025
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That is a good question. I can't remember where I saw it, but I thought I remembered them saying somewhere that the gadgets were reverse-engineered from lost logia. So in other words, they weren't lost logia themselves, but they used illegal tech in their construction and/or components?

Also, the jewel seed on that one unit was one of the same ones collected by Nanoha and Fate in the first season. Considering there are only 12 of those that didn't fall through the rift with Precia, there's no way that all Type IIIs were equipped with such things. Remember that Scags was taunting RF6 (and probably Fate in particular) directly by stamping his name right next to the Seed; it may not even have had a purpose in the drone other than to draw attention and say "neener neener remember this?"

Edit: Just pulled up that scene from episode 6. Immediately after identifying the jewel seed and Spaghetti's handiwork, Fate states that lost logia was used to manufacture the gadgets.
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Old 2011-03-25, 14:09   Link #3026
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Well, on the topic of magical weaponry... If you recall, the whole training grounds for the trainees in StrikerS were made out of magical solid light and they also had pretty realistic simulations of Gadget Drones which shot lasers that were definitely magical yet did dish quite some pain.

Also, think back to Precia's robots in TOS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by al103 View Post
Answer - we don't know. It's possible (though not likely) that they were legal, just Jail actions with them were not.
Gadgets per se weren't illegal IIRC, it's the fact that they were used to search and capture Relics that was. In fact, I am not really sure that the Gadgets used in Teana and Subaru's mage rank exam weren't simply reprogrammed Scaglietti's drones.
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Old 2011-03-25, 14:16   Link #3027
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Another thing about the gadgets, besides the LL connection: They were semi-autonomous drones that Scaglietti just sent out to look for the relics (and kill anything that gets in the way). Once they are unleashed on their single-minded purpose, they are effectively UXOs. . . and the TSAB is the kind of progressive good-guy government that wouldn't tolerate use of that sort of weapon by itself or others (think landmines).
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Old 2011-03-25, 19:30   Link #3028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
Well, on the topic of magical weaponry... If you recall, the whole training grounds for the trainees in StrikerS were made out of magical solid light and they also had pretty realistic simulations of Gadget Drones which shot lasers that were definitely magical yet did dish quite some pain.

Also, think back to Precia's robots in TOS.



Gadgets per se weren't illegal IIRC, it's the fact that they were used to search and capture Relics that was. In fact, I am not really sure that the Gadgets used in Teana and Subaru's mage rank exam weren't simply reprogrammed Scaglietti's drones.
This raises another question: If it's not illegal, why don't we ever see the TSAB uses them, even unarmed civilian versions? Because it looks like not everyone has powerful enough magic for doing things and they usually compensates with technology (cars, helicopters, etc) ? And if there's TSAB owned Gadget Drones why weren't they utilized during the JS Incident?
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Old 2011-03-25, 19:56   Link #3029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcc View Post
That is a good question. I can't remember where I saw it, but I thought I remembered them saying somewhere that the gadgets were reverse-engineered from lost logia.
If something is reverse-engineered than it's not lost logia. It's simple as that. Doesn't mean that it's legal though.
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Old 2011-03-25, 20:04   Link #3030
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Made more illegal afterwards?
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Old 2011-03-26, 09:42   Link #3031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
This raises another question: If it's not illegal, why don't we ever see the TSAB uses them, even unarmed civilian versions? Because it looks like not everyone has powerful enough magic for doing things and they usually compensates with technology (cars, helicopters, etc) ? And if there's TSAB owned Gadget Drones why weren't they utilized during the JS Incident?
I don't know. ^^ Maybe it's an ideological thing, just like with mass weaponry, since the Belkans were quite eager to use robots in their wars...
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Old 2011-03-26, 12:56   Link #3032
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Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
This raises another question: If it's not illegal, why don't we ever see the TSAB uses them, even unarmed civilian versions? Because it looks like not everyone has powerful enough magic for doing things and they usually compensates with technology (cars, helicopters, etc) ? And if there's TSAB owned Gadget Drones why weren't they utilized during the JS Incident?
The answer remains the same: We don't know.
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Old 2011-03-26, 13:02   Link #3033
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Well, I did put my theory up there. It IS a very good reason the TSAB wouldn't implement or condone the use of gadget drones. But it is still just a theory.
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Old 2011-03-26, 22:24   Link #3034
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Well, I did put my theory up there. It IS a very good reason the TSAB wouldn't implement or condone the use of gadget drones. But it is still just a theory.
A nice theory, if not for the fact that militaries actually increases their use of combat drones to minimize human casualties (on their side).
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Old 2011-03-27, 04:19   Link #3035
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Well, my point is that the gadgets aren't remote-operated; they are basically terminators given instructions and set out, and at that point they are just collateral damage waiting to happen. UXOs = unexploded ordinance, if you're not familiar with the term.

I'm sure the TSAB has no problem with remotes who are controlled from afar, or fully-intelligent machines who can make judgement calls and would have to be treated like citizens rather than devices (case in point: the Wolkies and unison devices). Heck, I'm sure remote controlled stuffs see frequent use in both private and military sectors for all kinds of purposes, just like in the real world.
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Old 2011-03-27, 11:59   Link #3036
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Well, my point is that the gadgets aren't remote-operated; they are basically terminators given instructions and set out, and at that point they are just collateral damage waiting to happen. UXOs = unexploded ordinance, if you're not familiar with the term.
True. I'm rewatching StrikerS and Scaglietti mentions at some point that once the Gadget Drones are settled into "relic Search" mode he stops being in full control of them because they're only following their own protocols in order to find and secure the relic.
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Old 2011-03-27, 12:32   Link #3037
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Which is an outright lie, considering Quattro can still control them just fine.
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Old 2011-03-27, 13:06   Link #3038
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Which is an outright lie, considering Quattro can still control them just fine.
Apparently the Gadgets can be switched between auto-search and controled mode, remember how Lutecia suddenly make them fully operable by controlling them with her bugs during the battle at Hotel Augusta.
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Old 2011-03-27, 15:02   Link #3039
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Are there any specific details on how exactly Olivie's sacrifice stopped the Saint King Unification War? Like what actions she took and how did she perish in the end?
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Old 2011-03-27, 16:00   Link #3040
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She took the Cradle. Beyond that, none whatsoever.
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