2010-11-13, 09:01 | Link #18781 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Hmm... I cannot recall any scene like that one. But well, arc 4, despite being the one that supposedly contains the most hints, is the one I like the least... or, at the very least, it's rather boring to read, for most of it.
Can you post the dialogue you're talking about? (If it's too long, please just post the important bits.)
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2010-11-13, 09:26 | Link #18782 | |
Just... disturbed.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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I think we use "耶蘇" in most Chinese-speaking places, not just HK. It's the proper translation after all. |
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2010-11-13, 11:35 | Link #18783 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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You know, I was just wondering, has it been discussed before the fact that in EP7 there's no witch side at all? I mean, sure, there's Bern and AuAu, but they're part of the human/anti-fantasy side. They were the ones carrying out this episode.Of course, we've been told that Featherine has supposedly arrived to the truth of the game, and thus, that's why she was able to write EP3-6. Now, I don't want to begin to question how many things Featherine actually got right, since that'd cast far too much uncertainty on the veracity of the information we've received on anything past EP2. Of course, this subject has already been brought up several times here and in many other places, but that's not what I want to focus right now.
Anyway, taking back my main point, EP7 was a game which was ran fully by the anti-fantasy side, whereas, so far, the ones running the games have always been the anti-mystery side. Of course, Bern did say she lost the game (on EP6). So, if that means the game is over, then that'd explain why she and AuAu are the ones running the game, but, either way, I'm sure something that caught most people's attention was that, in EP7, the fantasy-side characters were basically nowhere to be seen, which makes me wonder if there's a meaning to it. Now now, before we go into how EP7 was a massive troll and that we should forget about it, I want to say that's not my intention. In fact, EP7 did prove some of my theories right and, even though I've been vocal about how much I dislike ShKanon, EP7 did give me a sort-of human Beatrice; so, I can just suck it up, and be happy with that much. What I'm intending to ask is, how do you think all this information is going to be filtered and encompassed in EP8 (of course, this goes under the assumption that we'll get a relatively clear answer for the most important issues)?
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2010-11-13, 12:08 | Link #18784 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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Whose side are they on again? What role do they seem most tightly associated with? Yeah, think about that for a second. As for "no witch side," I'm not sure what merged timelines, a facially absurd Cinderella story, a mysterious stage on which characters are pulled to discuss story events, and Will fighting Bern to defend a piece of fiction are if they're not blatantly magical and probably somehow witch-side in some way. Also if you want to get really really technical, the presence of BATTLER and Virgilia in the opening scene constitutes an act on the part of the witch side.
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2010-11-13, 12:15 | Link #18785 | ||
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2010-11-13, 12:22 | Link #18786 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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Cynically, I would not be entirely inclined to say just what the "game" actually was. The implication when we finally see Bern and Featherine over the "board" is somewhat unclear because of when and how we see it, for example. Yes, Bern appears in what appears to be a game like setting and challenges a detective to do something. Does that automatically make that part the "game?"
Do we know for sure? It's like ep6. There's a game in it, but was that BATTLER's game or was the whole story "BATTLER's game?" Was "Beatrice's game" the game boards or the meta-objective she had in getting Battler where he is now?
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2010-11-13, 12:58 | Link #18787 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I think nothing prevents a game to be simply a farce where the result is already set. See EP5 for example.
The "witch side" is probably irrelevant, what you need is a GM and a player and then you have a game. Note that in EP5 Lambda did practically nothing as a witch apart from creating and supporting the the riddle of the knock. Then she just created a piece Beato without even letting her see the gameboard and she sent her to the slaughter. EP7 is not much different, there is Bern as a GM who created the piece Yasu/Lion/Clair and then she invited Will to play the game and kill her. If in EP5 the witch side was represented by Beatrice, in EP7 the witch side is represented by Clair, which certainly spiced up her story with a lot of fantasy.
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2010-11-13, 13:50 | Link #18788 | |||
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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In a way, I think you can say Will represents the readers to some extent. Notice how when he was in Rokkenjima and people started to tell him things, he went all "I already now that shit". In addition to his "please jump to the juicy bits" initial behaviour. Quote:
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2010-11-13, 14:19 | Link #18789 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Battler switched side but he never took an open fantasy position. When Erika stated that the game necessarily had to have a human culprit Battler didn't deny it.
EP6 wasn't anti-fantasy VS anti-mystery it was just a battle of wits on a clearly defined mystery scenario (at least until Beatrice took over). As for Bern favoring Will, I think she didn't favor him much more than Lambda favored her. Both games had their result set in stone already.
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2010-11-13, 14:31 | Link #18790 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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It's hard to say. 34 definitely gave Bern a partial look into the game, this being the reason why she can use Red. However, even after EP5, Bern still hadn't reached any answer. Not to mention that 34 wanted to keep Bern trapped in this game. So, I doubt she'd just hand her over answers that easily. Will, on the other hand, got seriously spoon-fed with answers.
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2010-11-13, 14:35 | Link #18791 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Will has not been spoon fed with answers. What he actually required to solve in the end had little to none relevance to what Clair told him.
If he really was spoon fed as you say then everyone here could be telling the answers to all of Clair's riddles. Bern simply wanted to expose Beatrice's guts, but the game was still challenging. as for Erika knowing already that magic doesn't exist, the same goes for Will.
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2010-11-13, 15:10 | Link #18792 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Of course, Will still had to connect the dots. That's his use, since Bern cannot do that, as she has no love. But, either way, he was handed over information very easily. Of course, filtering the information and putting the pieces together is a tough work, but I'd say gathering the info is the hardest part, and for Will, that was given mostly for free.
As for Erika and Will, Erika was playing as BATTLER's opponent, could we say the same about Will and Bern? They were in the same side, if you ask me (until the Tea Party, of course).
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2010-11-13, 17:31 | Link #18794 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Hm I guess there's a connection I cannot help but make now.
Shannon described the golden land as a land where you don't need to have your desires satisfied. Parallel to that we have Amakusa, who preaches to Ange about a world of self-satisfaction, where you are content with what you have and who you are. It seems to heavily imply the idea that reaching the golden land is reaching a level of "enlightment" that comes with a self-satisfaction. |
2010-11-13, 20:29 | Link #18797 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I'm not sure if this was mentioned before, but I just remembered something that hinted Beatrice's wound, back in EP3.
LAMBDA: "Because originally, you weren't even a witch, and at any time, I'll remind you what a truly shabby creature you were." みすぼらしい存在 Well this might also refer to some kind of deformity, maybe she really is an intersex. The point is that this sentence hinted that Beatrice had something that made her look different than a normal human being.
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2010-11-13, 21:46 | Link #18798 | |
The True Culprit
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Man, I've suspected Beatrice was intersex ever since that line. It was only in EP7 when I felt it wasn't retarded of me to think so.
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2010-11-14, 00:20 | Link #18800 | |
The True Culprit
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I'm sorry, the irony of this statement is hilarious. Intersex characters are more common in Eastern literature than Western. Them Asians love their dickgirls.
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