AnimeSuki Forums

FearTheMullet · 2004-11-17, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja massacre

not IMO.

OK..Lets define the word ego. A person who only thinks of himself.
How can a person who risks his life for others he doesn't even like be an ego?

I'm using the word "ego-trip" in the sense that Sasuke is full of himself and his abilities and for the longest time keeps denying others' abilities. Which is true. He wouldn't wear the leaf headband to fight naruto because he didn't think they were equal. Soon after that when he saw the GIGANTIC whole Rasnegan created comapred to his puny Chidori (in comparison to the Rasnegan) he realized he wasn't all there. I defined Ego-trip as thinking your better then others, so it backs up my point just fine. Like I said, as of now, hes not so full of himself. He's realized in comparison to Naruto hes done nothing.

FearTheMullet · 2004-11-17, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthriel

He was on a ego-trip when he fought Rock Lee (just as Naruto was, by the way) but apart from that, name one instance where he belittled his opponent and thought he was stronger than him. Hell, he already stated he is weaker than Naruto ("How can I grow that kind of power") and he knew he was no match for Orochimaru. Now, name an instance where Naruto realized he was weaker than someone else. Can't find one? Thought so.

I hate it when people just make a statement without giving any proof whatsoever.

Ir memory serves me on the roof of the hospitol he did NOT acknowledge naruto through his action of not wearing the headband
EDIT: Also, being stubborn and fighting on is alot different from belittling someone else. The question is can you discern between the two? Yes Naruto never realized he was weaker, he stubbornly and stupidly fights on. The outcome being either a third aprty stops the fight or he loses or by luck he wins. Sasuke on the other hand deliberatley belittles others abilities and puts himself on a pedestal.

Quote:

Try to explain to a screwed up kid it has to seek help. I don't think that would go to well.

Ofcourse it would be hard. I never said it would be easy, but at age 12-13 he's no longer a kid.

[quote[
That's true, but every time we saw him after the massacre, he was all alone. Doesn't look like anyone really cared for him. And it's not to suprising you don't try to make friends if you just experienced that kind of trauma. Frankly, I think Leaf should have given some kind of guardian to him (Naruto could have needed one as well.) It's idiotic to let traumatized children live by themselves. You shouldn't be too suprised if they turn out to be psychos.[/QUOTE]

The same could be said for narutos traumatizing life, I already said you cna't comapre, there is no fine line of what could be worse, seeing your family die, and locking yourself away or having no family to see die and not having to lock yourself away in a shell because everyone built a wall around you. The lines blurry. I also agree traumatized children shouldn't be left alone. Like I said though, its a matter of character. In every story (and in life too) there are those who are of weak, and strong character.

ninja massacre · 2004-11-17, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by FearTheMullet

I'm using the word "ego-trip" in the sense that Sasuke is full of himself and his abilities and for the longest time keeps denying others' abilities. Which is true. He wouldn't wear the leaf headband to fight naruto because he didn't think they were equal. Soon after that when he saw the GIGANTIC whole Rasnegan created comapred to his puny Chidori (in comparison to the Rasnegan) he realized he wasn't all there. I defined Ego-trip as thinking your better then others, so it backs up my point just fine. Like I said, as of now, hes not so full of himself. He's realized in comparison to Naruto hes done nothing.

well in that case I think you shouldn't use the word ego-trip.
Also, does it matters what he thinks? I justify people for what they say and do, not think.
I know he was arrogant, foolish and all when fighting naruto but like I said, He was pretty fucked up psycholigally then.

Hideki Keiji · 2004-11-17, 17:00

Sasuke was opening up, becomeing 'normal', in a sense up until Itachi made him re-live the worst part of the worst day of his whole life, for 24 hours. Before this happened, he wasn't as focused on revenge, sure, it was his goal, but it was something in the future. Now, Sasuke wants revenge Now, not years down the road, Now.

Spoiler for Manga:

I don't think Sasuke's a bad person, just a little messed up at this point in the anime, courtesy of Itachi. Normally, Sasuke's a different person than he is now, in normal circumstances he'd give up his dreams just to save his teammates.

I honestly can't understand the people that like Itachi but hate Sasuke for being 'evil'.

Tron Bonne · 2004-11-17, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

Sure, but I wouldn't want to hurt the guy because he worked hard to become that fast. I'd be training with him to get better.

To have been loved by your mother and father is better than never having experienced it at all.

You are just a blind fanboy. You WON'T see Sasuke's character how he is supose to be seen. Sasuke cares very much for his friends, he didn't kill Naruto even in his broken state. He didn't kill him because he couldn't kill his friend, his best friend. He NEVER attacked his old comrades, they came after him. He even tried not to fight Naruto at the waterfall, Naruto started the fight. I see no reason why he should feel loyal to the village as a whole. Where were they when his family was killed? What did they do to catch and punish Itachi? Nothing.

Anthriel · 2004-11-17, 17:44

err ... this thread has no manga tag at the moment. Some of you should probably use spoiler tags, before you spoil the point of the current arc for the anime vievers.

CyberPunk · 2004-11-17, 18:37

this is why i love sasuke. all the emotion he stirs inside of us, whether good or bad, he's the most moving. you don't have to like him or what he's doing, but you have to recognize how great of a character he is for this story to have. i could give a shit how many of you guys actually like him, but i hate when those who dislike him use petty and immature insults. i just don't see what they get out of slamming him.

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-11-17, 19:30

Yeah its not like anyone is hurting Sasuke's feeling by calling him names or insulting him. Even if he were a real person he wouldn't give a damn about you and just say he's on a quest to kill his brother.

FearTheMullet · 2004-11-17, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tron Bonne

You are just a blind fanboy. You WON'T see Sasuke's character how he is supose to be seen. Sasuke cares very much for his friends, he didn't kill Naruto even in his broken state. He didn't kill him because he couldn't kill his friend, his best friend. He NEVER attacked his old comrades, they came after him. He even tried not to fight Naruto at the waterfall, Naruto started the fight. I see no reason why he should feel loyal to the village as a whole. Where were they when his family was killed? What did they do to catch and punish Itachi? Nothing.

Spoiler:

Bronwen Stx · 2004-11-17, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tron Bonne

You are just a blind fanboy. You WON'T see Sasuke's character how he is supose to be seen. Sasuke cares very much for his friends, he didn't kill Naruto even in his broken state. He didn't kill him because he couldn't kill his friend, his best friend. He NEVER attacked his old comrades, they came after him. He even tried not to fight Naruto at the waterfall, Naruto started the fight. I see no reason why he should feel loyal to the village as a whole. Where were they when his family was killed? What did they do to catch and punish Itachi? Nothing.

Spoiler for manga:

dyslexic · 2004-11-17, 21:09

For most of his life Sasuke was more or less perfectly fine except for his obsessive revenge which i think would be normal given his circumstances. It also did not really negatively affect him. When he met his brother again and got tortured was when Sasuke really started losing it. Also that seal Orochimaru gave him is probably adding to Sasuke's difficulty in dealing with his inferiortiy complex that was mentioned. Itachi severely damaged his brother's brain when he used the mangekyou sharingan. It was not normal torture that a very strong person could withstand. He is very lucky that he did not go completely insane after he woke up.

CyberPunk · 2004-11-17, 21:10

well jiraiya has been doing some detective work on the akatsuki organization, so there's no doubt he's seen or known something about itachi during his time away from konoha. plus, most of you guys seem to think that jiraiya could totally demolish itachi in a fight, so why hasn't itachi been brought to justice?

Bronwen Stx · 2004-11-17, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberPunk

well jiraiya has been doing some detective work on the akatsuki organization, so there's no doubt he's seen or known something about itachi during his time away from konoha. plus, most of you guys seem to think that jiraiya could totally demolish itachi in a fight, so why hasn't itachi been brought to justice?

Even if and I say IF (I'm not going to go into Jeraiya vs Itachi because I don't care) Jeraiya can beat Itachi's ass to the ground...did you forget the other 8 Akatsuki members? Or Itachi's partner? Jeraiya might be a Sannin but that doesn't mean with a flick of his wrist he can kill Itachi, it's not that easy...

Shrimpusmaximus · 2004-11-17, 22:13

Spoiler:

Anyway I am sure I left out a few points but damn, come on people hasn't the whole brothers warped by individual viewpoints thing stuck in anyones heads....

PS I like sasuke as a villian as villians/ruthless people are far more interesting. Hisoka from hunter x hunter anyone? Now there is a screwed up family dynamic.

CyberPunk · 2004-11-17, 22:20

i'm totally against jiraiya beating itachi, it would be terrible for the story and ruin the dynamic of sasuke being the only one who can, but i'm arguing for the sake of arguing. :P. jiraiya knows they move in groups of two, i believe he's the one that said that to kakashi. itachi said, which might have been him just being the cautious super ninja, that in the best situation, him and his partner would be taken down in the fight to beat jiraiya. if konoha was serious, a jounin or two plus an anbu squad would be sent to aid jiraiya in taking down itachi. i mean, how could itachi and kisame possibly win that fight? i'm just trying to figure out, through discussion and speculation, why itachi is still a free man.

Zek · 2004-11-17, 22:36

This is NOT a Manga thread, no spoilers outside tags. I suggest you tag a hefty portion of that post before a mod notices it Shrimp.

2004-11-17, 17:00	Link #104
Hideki Keiji Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 38	Sasuke was opening up, becomeing 'normal', in a sense up until Itachi made him re-live the worst part of the worst day of his whole life, for 24 hours. Before this happened, he wasn't as focused on revenge, sure, it was his goal, but it was something in the future. Now, Sasuke wants revenge Now, not years down the road, Now. Spoiler for Manga: And someone else said that Sasuke 'turned' on his village and attacked his former friends, which is just, plain wrong. Naruto attacked Sasuke after Sasuke told him to leave. As for trying to kill Naruto, well like I said, he wanted revenge now, and to do that he needed the same eyes as his brother. It was nothing personal, and he didn't even follow through when given the chance. On top of that, he acknowledged Naruto as his equal and his best friend. I don't think Sasuke's a bad person, just a little messed up at this point in the anime, courtesy of Itachi. Normally, Sasuke's a different person than he is now, in normal circumstances he'd give up his dreams just to save his teammates. I honestly can't understand the people that like Itachi but hate Sasuke for being 'evil'.

2004-11-17, 19:30	Link #108
MysticNinjaJay Ninja Emperor Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 38	Yeah its not like anyone is hurting Sasuke's feeling by calling him names or insulting him. Even if he were a real person he wouldn't give a damn about you and just say he's on a quest to kill his brother. __________________

2004-11-17, 22:13	Link #114
Shrimpusmaximus Member Join Date: Oct 2004	Spoiler: Is it my imagination or is the entire interplay of the two characters from the last few chapters being entirely ignored except for the gross outcome of how many living bodies walked or crawled away from the scene? At the lowest level the relationship of Naruto and Sasuke is that of Brothers. They at an early age realized that both of them were alone and took solace in this fact. Even if they were alone they were not the only ones. THis relationship is further complicated by the particular causes of their lonelyness. Naruto is a classic case of someone who care deeply what everyone thinks but acts like he doesn't. His lonelyness came from lack of acknowledgement. No one wanted anything to do with him. So he developes an arrogant boistrous mask that he hides behind. He pretends that nothing matters but his lifelong dream of being the Hokage and forcing everyone to acknowledege him betrays his intent. Sasuke is alone because of his brother. A brother that befriended him and then murdered his entire clan for the sole purpose of giving sasuke a motivation to seek out the Mangekyou Sharingan. He hates his brother and lives to kill him. This has blotted out the importance of anything else in his life. He is the best because he has to be the best to beat Itachi. He still runs in his brothers shadow but now he is carrying a knife. Sasuke doesn't want the pain of everything vanishing to ever happen again thus he lives in a self imposed isolation. When something worms its way in he becomes stalwart to defend it. I never want to see those dear to me die again.... Naruto deciding that Sasuke wants nothing to do with him as a friend decides to force a relationship. He declares himself sasukes rival and does his best to surpass him so that sasuke has to acknowledge him. Sasuke sees this as a giant joke, or doesn't see it at all. Naruto the screwup even though they shared a similar agony Itachi consumed sasuke and that was the only thing that mattered. By the time of Haku, the relationship has matured, both of them are bonding to one another and Naruto is begining to run faster. Sasuke increases his pace as well. He can't very well lose to naruto the screw up or else what chance does he have against Itachi. When he sacrifices himself for naruto it is because he is healing. He is the stronger of the two and acts like he thinks the elder should act, the lowest part of his brain knwos that they are brothers so he defends him. Gaara is a turning point, it is at this moment that Naruto surpasses sasuke. Confronted by an avatar of power he is shocked at how far naruto has come and basing off of the origninal naruto curses himself for not advancing fast enough. Only self loathing exist now. Naruto is buoyed by his newfound power but sasauke still won't throw him many bones. The single line in the Chuunin exam is a single taste of a brothers affection and he is desperate for more. Tyhe encounter with Itachi reminds sasuke painfully that he has a purpose and that he cannot just enjoy the life he has found. Around here naruto becomes a yardstick against which to measure himself. If he isn't up to beating naruto the purpose of his life will become void. Naruto his true brother has become a surrogate for his other brother, the one that isn't so nice. On the roof of the hospital they both pop their killer moves not to harm each other but to prove to each other that they are inequal/equal. Both of their self images are desperatly entwined in this combat and the prospect of killing the other doesn't even matter anymore. They cannot let any tool in their arsenal go unused or else they will never prove what they need to. In their final confrontation on the rocks it becomes clear to sasuke that Naruto is his brother and not weak. This revelation allows him to acknowledge him and gain his third comma. They then fight, the final confrontation leaves sasuke in a pickle. he is willing to sacrifice anything to kill his brother, but is he willing to murder family, and become his brother to kill him. His decision.... Anyway I am sure I left out a few points but damn, come on people hasn't the whole brothers warped by individual viewpoints thing stuck in anyones heads.... PS I like sasuke as a villian as villians/ruthless people are far more interesting. Hisoka from hunter x hunter anyone? Now there is a screwed up family dynamic. Last edited by Shrimpusmaximus; 2004-11-18 at 00:21.

2004-11-17, 17:44	Link #106
Anthriel 天使 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 独逸　（カールスト） Age: 37	err ... this thread has no manga tag at the moment. Some of you should probably use spoiler tags, before you spoil the point of the current arc for the anime vievers.

2004-11-17, 18:37	Link #107
CyberPunk Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004	this is why i love sasuke. all the emotion he stirs inside of us, whether good or bad, he's the most moving. you don't have to like him or what he's doing, but you have to recognize how great of a character he is for this story to have. i could give a shit how many of you guys actually like him, but i hate when those who dislike him use petty and immature insults. i just don't see what they get out of slamming him.

2004-11-17, 21:09	Link #111
dyslexic Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004	For most of his life Sasuke was more or less perfectly fine except for his obsessive revenge which i think would be normal given his circumstances. It also did not really negatively affect him. When he met his brother again and got tortured was when Sasuke really started losing it. Also that seal Orochimaru gave him is probably adding to Sasuke's difficulty in dealing with his inferiortiy complex that was mentioned. Itachi severely damaged his brother's brain when he used the mangekyou sharingan. It was not normal torture that a very strong person could withstand. He is very lucky that he did not go completely insane after he woke up.

2004-11-17, 21:10	Link #112
CyberPunk Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004	well jiraiya has been doing some detective work on the akatsuki organization, so there's no doubt he's seen or known something about itachi during his time away from konoha. plus, most of you guys seem to think that jiraiya could totally demolish itachi in a fight, so why hasn't itachi been brought to justice?

2004-11-17, 22:20	Link #115
CyberPunk Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004	i'm totally against jiraiya beating itachi, it would be terrible for the story and ruin the dynamic of sasuke being the only one who can, but i'm arguing for the sake of arguing. :P. jiraiya knows they move in groups of two, i believe he's the one that said that to kakashi. itachi said, which might have been him just being the cautious super ninja, that in the best situation, him and his partner would be taken down in the fight to beat jiraiya. if konoha was serious, a jounin or two plus an anbu squad would be sent to aid jiraiya in taking down itachi. i mean, how could itachi and kisame possibly win that fight? i'm just trying to figure out, through discussion and speculation, why itachi is still a free man.

2004-11-17, 22:36	Link #116
Zek Eyebrows... Join Date: May 2004 Age: 37	This is NOT a Manga thread, no spoilers outside tags. I suggest you tag a hefty portion of that post before a mod notices it Shrimp.