[GSD] Yes, I know, but Shinn is the main character...

[Esper 28]

You're all being way way too hard on Shinn. You're not giving him ANY time to develope.

These last couple of episodes has basically just introduced new characters, reintroduced some old characters, and set up the first problem (Junius 7). It's all set up issues.

Give Shinn some time to get some screen time and then tell me what you think about him.

I'll openly admit that so far, I like Shinn a lot better than I liked Kira and Athrun seven episodes into SEED. Though nobody owns more than Flaga, heh. Even in the beginning Flaga was owning.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by dreamless

This I totally agree, however Shinn is not exactly hotblood either, since he goes "huh? why I can't hit them? how can they use the Gundams so well? why? this makes no sense!" instead of "Star of Heaven, Flower of Earth, Love of People, I'm the warrior of Love and Justice!"

Well, "hot-blooded" doesn't just mean that the guy screams all their attacks out you know... Yzak is hot-blooded for example... And Shinn is hot-blooded because the guy gets completely addicted into his fights and gets pissed off if things don't go his way.

Originally Posted by Esper 28

You're all being way way too hard on Shinn. You're not giving him ANY time to develope.

Nah, most of them are just Kira/Cagalli fanboys who want Destiny to be a complete SEED rehash...

[Godtype]

Originally Posted by brightman

Well, "hot-blooded" doesn't just mean that the guy screams all their attacks out you know... Yzak is hot-blooded for example... And Shinn is hot-blooded because the guy gets completely addicted into his fights and gets pissed off if things don't go his way.


Nah, most of them are just Kira/Cagalli fanboys who want Destiny to be a complete SEED rehash...

Yeah, we all want everything that happened in SEED to happen in GS: D.

How insightful.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Godtype

Yeah, we all want everything that happened in SEED to happen in GS: D.

How insightful.

Right? It just seems so to me.... I understand if you dislike Shinn's attitude and make a statement about it. But what's with the consistent references to Kira about how much a better pilot he is when discussing Shinn's personality, and the constant bashing of Shinn because he yelled at Cagalli for a multitude of reasons? So I'm guessing that you all just want Kira to be back as the main character again along with all his emotional baggage. After all, both Kira and Cagalli have their critical flaws as well, so its not like you hate Shinn because he's also a flawed character... Right?

[Godtype]

Originally Posted by brightman

Right? It just seems so to me.... I understand if you dislike Shinn's attitude and make a statement about it. But what's with the consistent references to Kira about how much a better pilot he is when discussing Shinn's personality, and the constant bashing of Shinn because he yelled at Cagalli for a multitude of reasons? So I'm guessing that you all just want Kira to be back as the main character again along with all his emotional baggage. After all, both Kira and Cagalli have their critical flaws as well, so its not like you hate Shinn because he's also a flawed character... Right?

So, not liking the main character and preferring the one that the series was based off = wanting everything to happen the same as the original series?

Not likely. I don't like Cagalli much, for the record. Kira was more likeable as a hero, why do you think everyone is anticipating what he'll do? Because he was a bad one? Because Shinn is better? He acts like he's carrying out the will of the righteous when he bitches at a girl that nearly sacrificed herself for peace and would have willingly while he clings to the death of his family, Cagalli is trying to bring about peace through disarming the nations since she knows that preparing for a war still won't help a nation avoid bloodshed(Yes, she wasn't always a pacifist) and not dwelling on the fact that Uzumi sacrificed himself for a spoiled brat that would attack his daughter since she was apparently responsible for his family's death.

I'm not talking about a few flaws in Shinn, he's a complete disaster. Let him develop? No, I'd rather tell the writers to pull that eye sore on the plot out. Hell, make Athrun the hero or something, at least he wouldn't be whining about his father's brutal death or blaming Naturals' for the 'Valentine of Blood' every episode.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Godtype

So, not liking the main character and preferring the one that the series was based off = wanting everything to happen the same as the original series?

Well, the fact that you prefer to discuss about Kira's piloting skills vs Shinn's personality seems that way.

Not likely. I don't like Cagalli much, for the record. Kira was more likeable as a hero, why do you think everyone is anticipating what he'll do? Because he was a bad one? Because Shinn is better? He acts like he's carrying out the will of the righteous when he bitches at a girl that nearly sacrificed herself for peace and would have willingly while he clings to the death of his family, Cagalli is trying to bring about peace through disarming the nations since she knows that preparing for a war still won't help a nation avoid bloodshed(Yes, she wasn't always a pacifist) and not dwelling on the fact that Uzumi sacrificed himself for a spoiled brat that would attack his daughter since she was apparently responsible for his family's death.

Everyone anticipates what he'll do because he's severely lacking in action right now... If he was the main character of this show as well, I guarantee you that there'll be a lot of people going, "what? again?" Kira might be popular, but he's also one of the most hated characters in anime fandom also.

And likeable? Who cares about that? IMO all a character needs to be is to be interesting. A villain can be quite unlikeable, but if the villain is interesting, who cares about that fact that you are supposed to hate him?

Of course, I understand that certain people only like characters that appeals to them. And I have nothing against that. Me however, have watched enough "likeable" characters that I get a bit tired of them.

I'm not talking about a few flaws in Shinn, he's a complete disaster. Let him develop? No, I'd rather tell the writers to pull that eye sore on the plot out. Hell, make Athrun the hero or something, at least he wouldn't be whining about his father's brutal death or blaming Naturals' for the 'Valentine of Blood' every episode.

That just shows what utter bias you have against him, ignoring every single bit of depth and personality that the character has. Shinn is not a one dimensional character. And he has not gotten much of a chance to show his other sides yet (even though they have shown glimpses of it). So what you're basically doing is the same as taking Kira's annoying snorting cries and treating it as his whole character, which is the same thing that you criticized me for. Talk about being hypocritical, eh?

[Godtype]

Originally Posted by brightman

Well, the fact that you prefer to discuss about Kira's piloting skills vs Shinn's personality seems that way.



Everyone anticipates what he'll do because he's severely lacking in action right now... If he was the main character of this show as well, I guarantee you that there'll be a lot of people going, "what? again?" Kira might be popular, but he's also one of the most hated characters in anime fandom also.

And likeable? Who cares about that? IMO all a character needs to be is to be interesting. A villain can be quite unlikeable, but if the villain is interesting, who cares about that fact that you are supposed to hate him?

Of course, I understand that certain people only like characters that appeals to them. And I have nothing against that. Me however, have watched enough "likeable" characters that I get a bit tired of them.



That just shows what utter bias you have against him, ignoring every single bit of depth and personality that the character has. Shinn is not a one dimensional character. And he has not gotten much of a chance to show his other sides yet (even though they have shown glimpses of it). So what you're basically doing is the same as taking Kira's annoying snorting cries and treating it as his whole character, which is the same thing that you criticized me for. Talk about being hypocritical, eh?

You keep working on that one.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Godtype

You keep working on that one.

And maybe you should pay attention to Shinn more and give up your Kira fanboy-ism for now, then you will understand where I'm coming from.

[Godtype]

Originally Posted by brightman

And maybe you should pay attention to Shinn more and give up your Kira fanboy-ism for now, then you will understand where I'm coming from.

Oh, don't worry. I wasn't lurching over in disgust and cursing the writer's mothers for the horrible spawn they released on a once sequel with a chance of becoming as good as the original.

P.S. I forgot to mention the fact that your argument relies purely on something that HASN'T happened and my(apparent) 'Kira fanboy-ism'.

[Tron Bonne]

Then don't watch SEED Destiny. If you hate Shinn and love Kira then stick to SEED. You won't enjoy Destiny, you hate Shinn so much you can't even see his character.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Godtype

Oh, don't worry. I wasn't lurching over in disgust and cursing the writer's mothers for the horrible spawn they released on a once sequel with a chance of becoming as good as the original.

Well, the general consensus is that so far Seed Destiny is tenfolds better than Seed was in the beginning... But of course, I didn't say that. And I guess you don't agree either.

Originally Posted by Tron Bonne

Then don't watch SEED Destiny. If you hate Shinn and love Kira then stick to SEED. You won't enjoy Destiny, you hate Shinn so much you can't even see his character.

Ditto... I liked SEED so much I watched it at least 5 times... Maybe you should be doing that too, instead of watching this.

[Godtype]

Originally Posted by Tron Bonne

Then don't watch SEED Destiny. If you hate Shinn and love Kira then stick to SEED. You won't enjoy Destiny, you hate Shinn so much you can't even see his character.

What character is this now? I guess I missed all the parts where he wasn't fending off(ineffectual, Athrun > them with a Zaku) insurgent Gundam Pilots, crying himself to sleep, heranguing Cagalli and gawking at Athrun's leet skills.

[Godtype]

Originally Posted by brightman

Well, the general consensus is that so far Seed Destiny is tenfolds better than Seed was in the beginning... But of course, I didn't say that. And I guess you don't agree either.



Ditto... I liked SEED so much I watched it at least 5 times... Maybe you should be doing that too, instead of watching this.

If you want to put it that way, I should be asking you why you aren't off cosplaying Shinn and getting mistaken for Kira, staring into the corner and shouting at people across the room and doing something other than trying to defend a bad character with pure conjecture that has the 'Don't open until this character stops sucking' tag on it.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Godtype

What character is this now? I guess I missed all the parts where he wasn't fending off(ineffectual, Athrun > them with a Zaku) insurgent Gundam Pilots, crying himself to sleep, heranguing Cagalli and gawking at Athrun's leet skills.

Well, that proves it... You really aren't paying attention at all at what Shinn's saying at why he's doing what he does. So that just shows how you completely missed the point.

If you want to put it that way, I should be asking you why you aren't off cosplaying Shinn and getting mistaken for Kira, staring into the corner and shouting at people across the room and doing something other than trying to defend a bad character with pure conjecture that has the 'Don't open until this character stops sucking' tag on it.

Because I'm not bias against a character that has yet to demonstrate anything? Because I actually understand where he's coming from, and his arguments?
Because I actually see that he's not as one dimensional as you seem to think he is?
Because I find him a more realistic character than Kira?
Because I find him a more interesting character than Kira?
Because I find that he can potentially be a better character than Kira?
Do you need more reasons?

Don't get me wrong, I am no big fan of Shinn. I tend not to get overly attached to characters because other Gundam shows I've seen have made it so. However, after seeing such obvious bias against a character who doesn't deserve it, I really can't remain silent, can I?

[Godtype]

Originally Posted by brightman

Well, that proves it... You really aren't paying attention at all at what Shinn's saying at why he's doing what he does. So that just shows how you completely missed the point.


Because I'm not bias against a character that has yet to demonstrate anything? Because I actually understand where he's coming from, and his arguments?
Because I actually see that he's not as one dimensional as you seem to think he is?
Because I find him a more realistic character than Kira?
Because I find him a more interesting character than Kira?
Because I find that he can potentially be a better character than Kira?
Do you need more reasons?

Don't get me wrong, I am no big fan of Shinn. I tend not to get overly attached to characters because other Gundam shows I've seen have made it so. However, after seeing such obvious bias against a character who doesn't deserve it, I really can't remain silent, can I?

You really could, especially since my bias against a deep and meaningful character you've tried to orchestrate really doesn't exist.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Godtype

You really could, especially since my bias against a deep and meaningful character you've tried to orchestrate really doesn't exist.

Like I said, that's because you *still* don't see it.

[Godtype]

Originally Posted by brightman

Like I said, that's because you *still* don't see it.

Now you're just denying that you yourself have said that this supposedly 'interesting' Shinn has yet to be shown.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Godtype

Now you're just denying that you yourself have said that this supposedly 'interesting' Shinn has yet to be shown.

Didn't I said that they have shown glimpses of it? I happened to see those... You didn't. Plus I am not the only one. So there, people are seeing things that you aren't seeing. There must be something wrong with your eyes.

Anyway this topic is quickly deteriorating. Please make your retaliations a bit more meaningful... It seems like I typed all those long paragraphs for nothing.

[Godtype]

Originally Posted by brightman

Didn't I said that they have shown glimpses of it? I happened to see those... You didn't. Plus I am not the only one. So there, people are seeing things that you aren't seeing. There must be something wrong with your eyes.

Anyway this topic is quickly deteriorating. Please make your retaliations a bit more meaningful... It seems like I typed all those long paragraphs for nothing.

I already addressed all that conjecture, you wittle down your arguments to speculation of just what these 'glimpses' are. If you're going to ad-hominem my arguments, why should I believe that I need to do anything more to deter your 'compelling' points in your long and especially meaningful paragraphs?

P.S. Look into your crystal ball and tell me when these mystical 'glimpses' as you term it will become more obvious, ace.

[ZeusIrae]

In the first 10 ep of seed there was some really annoying characters.
Yeah Mu was cooler than the annoying teenager who was unfortunetly the main character.But in the end Kira was fine not perfect but fine.So who know what will happen to Shinn?