[Manga] Sasuke Rant...and yes, its long...

[Vinac]

Okay so this rant has been present in the back of my mind for quite some time but I never got around to actually writing it. I dont post much on these boards mostly because I always seem to forget my password and never want to go through the trouble of emailing it to myself and getting a new one. (Im lazy)...But I do read the boards on a relatively frequent basis, and I see alot of the same comments pertaining to Sasuke, and I finally decided to sit down and write my rant. Im sure itll end up rather long, sooo I apologize in advance.


"Sasuke is such an arrogant asshole"

I can understand how he gives off that impression...but in reality, if you look deeper, he's really suffering from a huge inferiority complex. He's always lived under his brothers shadow... "Itachi was the best at everything, Itachi did this at age 12, Itachi was such a prodigy. Why arent you more like Itachi?" Sasuke developed a inferiority complex at a really young age that just carried over into the later years and now has been severely retouched upon his meeting with his brother once again. He'd worked the last 5 years to get stronger, in the hopes of succeeding his brother...only to realize that the differences in power were still enormous. And to rub more salt in that wound, to find out that Itachi was there for NARUTO, made the matter worse due to their constant rivialry. He awakens from the comatose sleep (or whatever) he was in after his eventful fight with his brother in a pyschological state that would take YEARS of modern psychological therapy to work out. In the time that hes been unconscious, Naruto has gotten even stronger, which further worses the situation. Sasuke's mindset is such a whirl of confusion and vunerablity that of course hes going to make irrational decisions and lash out without really thinking things through logically. How could he? Hes angry, confused and hurt, he doesnt know what he should be doing or what he should be thinking...so his actions are going to be erratic. Its the same as with anyone who suffers some form of trama, especially a strong emotional trama. You see it all the time in our society now, kids who had some sort of trama in their lives often act in erratic, delinquent ways because their mindset isnt working in a rational manner. You have to cut Sasuke some slack, anyone who has gone through the events hes been through shouldnt be expected to just wake up and be mentally unscathed. Hes been healed physically, but not emotionally. So with that stated, those who hate on him for 'betraying' his friends and village should try to understand things a little better from his point of view. Im not saying that his actions are justified, but some understanding should be given since hes not exactly in the most psychologically sound state right now.



"He needs to quit whining about his past" or "He needs to get over his obsession with revenge"

Look at what Sasuke experienced at the age of 8. Any young child that experiences what Sasuke went through at that age would also grow up to be slightly skewed. Its hard enough to lose one loved one, but to have everyone remotely related to you cruelly slaughtered is enough to make anyone tramatized for life. And to add to that, to have those murders be performed by your idolized older brother, and then to be ridiculed for being too weak to be killed by that same brother, and THEN to be further submitted to the torment of being forced to rewatch those murders again...

I think hes adjusted quite well considering the circumstances he went through 5 years ago. His underlying purpose for becoming strong is revenge, yes, but is that really such a bad thing? To avenge his clans murders, to put rest to his past and move on with his life. I see so many comments pertaining to "Once Sasuke kills Itachi he will have no more purpose to his life." I disagree because I believe that until Sasuke kills Itachi, he will be unable to move on, unable to close that door to his past. Itachi's death will lend him the closure he needs. So yes, hes obsessive with this goal, and the realization that he is so far away from it is quite heartbreaking. But he can not just "get over it," as if it were something that easy. Everything Sasuke has become has been shaped by that event, and emotionally he is unable to adjust to normal life until the task of killing his brother is taken care of. Also keep in mind that Sasuke is very cleverly being manipulated by Itachi. Itachi fascinates me in so many ways that I wont mention here to save space, but his hold on Sasuke is a huge part in Sasukes erratic mindset...Itachi is easily able to drive Sasuke to do as he pleases with just a few easy words.



"Naruto had a equally sad past as Sasuke does, and you dont see him acting like an ass" or a quote from earlier today "Kakashi has everyone he's ever loved murdered too and he's not an angsty whiner"

The comparing thing really gets old and is irritating. Everyone has different backgrounds and different situations that are interpreted differently by different personalities and minds. Hence the key word that I used 50 times there is "Different." You never know how someone will deal with a tramatic event, its why everyone has completely different reactions upon dealing with loss, pain, or any kind of trama. No reaction is more right or wrong than the other. How someone copes with the pain is really a mixture of personality, past experiences, beliefs and values, etc. Dont compare.


It really all boils down to cutting Sasuke some slack. In todays society, a kid in his mental condition who went throught those childhood events would have years of therapy in order to get him on the road to recovery...And Im sure that people would have alot more sympathy than I see around here. Im not trying to get anyone to become little Sasuke fans or anything, but the insults seem out of line. Poor Sasuke =( But Im tired of writing, so Ill just go ahead and post this and be done with it. Its sort of long, so nobody will probably read it anyway. =)

[Kayess]

Originally Posted by Vinac

Okay so this rant has been present in the back of my mind for quite some time but I never got around to actually writing it. I dont post much on these boards mostly because I always seem to forget my password and never want to go through the trouble of emailing it to myself and getting a new one. (Im lazy)...But I do read the boards on a relatively frequent basis, and I see alot of the same comments pertaining to Sasuke, and I finally decided to sit down and write my rant. Im sure itll end up rather long, sooo I apologize in advance.


"Sasuke is such an arrogant asshole"

I can understand how he gives off that impression...but in reality, if you look deeper, he's really suffering from a huge inferiority complex. He's always lived under his brothers shadow... "Itachi was the best at everything, Itachi did this at age 12, Itachi was such a prodigy. Why arent you more like Itachi?" Sasuke developed a inferiority complex at a really young age that just carried over into the later years and now has been severely retouched upon his meeting with his brother once again. He'd worked the last 5 years to get stronger, in the hopes of succeeding his brother...only to realize that the differences in power were still enormous. And to rub more salt in that wound, to find out that Itachi was there for NARUTO, made the matter worse due to their constant rivialry. He awakens from the comatose sleep (or whatever) he was in after his eventful fight with his brother in a pyschological state that would take YEARS of modern psychological therapy to work out. In the time that hes been unconscious, Naruto has gotten even stronger, which further worses the situation. Sasuke's mindset is such a whirl of confusion and vunerablity that of course hes going to make irrational decisions and lash out without really thinking things through logically. How could he? Hes angry, confused and hurt, he doesnt know what he should be doing or what he should be thinking...so his actions are going to be erratic. Its the same as with anyone who suffers some form of trama, especially a strong emotional trama. You see it all the time in our society now, kids who had some sort of trama in their lives often act in erratic, delinquent ways because their mindset isnt working in a rational manner. You have to cut Sasuke some slack, anyone who has gone through the events hes been through shouldnt be expected to just wake up and be mentally unscathed. Hes been healed physically, but not emotionally. So with that stated, those who hate on him for 'betraying' his friends and village should try to understand things a little better from his point of view. Im not saying that his actions are justified, but some understanding should be given since hes not exactly in the most psychologically sound state right now.



"He needs to quit whining about his past" or "He needs to get over his obsession with revenge"

Look at what Sasuke experienced at the age of 8. Any young child that experiences what Sasuke went through at that age would also grow up to be slightly skewed. Its hard enough to lose one loved one, but to have everyone remotely related to you cruelly slaughtered is enough to make anyone tramatized for life. And to add to that, to have those murders be performed by your idolized older brother, and then to be ridiculed for being too weak to be killed by that same brother, and THEN to be further submitted to the torment of being forced to rewatch those murders again...

I think hes adjusted quite well considering the circumstances he went through 5 years ago. His underlying purpose for becoming strong is revenge, yes, but is that really such a bad thing? To avenge his clans murders, to put rest to his past and move on with his life. I see so many comments pertaining to "Once Sasuke kills Itachi he will have no more purpose to his life." I disagree because I believe that until Sasuke kills Itachi, he will be unable to move on, unable to close that door to his past. Itachi's death will lend him the closure he needs. So yes, hes obsessive with this goal, and the realization that he is so far away from it is quite heartbreaking. But he can not just "get over it," as if it were something that easy. Everything Sasuke has become has been shaped by that event, and emotionally he is unable to adjust to normal life until the task of killing his brother is taken care of. Also keep in mind that Sasuke is very cleverly being manipulated by Itachi. Itachi fascinates me in so many ways that I wont mention here to save space, but his hold on Sasuke is a huge part in Sasukes erratic mindset...Itachi is easily able to drive Sasuke to do as he pleases with just a few easy words.



"Naruto had a equally sad past as Sasuke does, and you dont see him acting like an ass" or a quote from earlier today "Kakashi has everyone he's ever loved murdered too and he's not an angsty whiner"

The comparing thing really gets old and is irritating. Everyone has different backgrounds and different situations that are interpreted differently by different personalities and minds. Hence the key word that I used 50 times there is "Different." You never know how someone will deal with a tramatic event, its why everyone has completely different reactions upon dealing with loss, pain, or any kind of trama. No reaction is more right or wrong than the other. How someone copes with the pain is really a mixture of personality, past experiences, beliefs and values, etc. Dont compare.


It really all boils down to cutting Sasuke some slack. In todays society, a kid in his mental condition who went throught those childhood events would have years of therapy in order to get him on the road to recovery...And Im sure that people would have alot more sympathy than I see around here. Im not trying to get anyone to become little Sasuke fans or anything, but the insults seem out of line. Poor Sasuke =( But Im tired of writing, so Ill just go ahead and post this and be done with it. Its sort of long, so nobody will probably read it anyway. =)

You fail to realize the purpose of comparason. It is to contrast to that which is normal. Without that, we cannot tell that it is off. You yourself compare him to others because you recognize he is "different". Heaven forbid we acknowledge the royal asshole sasuke is being. We all know his backstory. We all know that it is rough to lose those you love... but the thing is... people can and HAVE dealt with similiar... and no where in the same way as him. He is of weak character. Get over it.

[Genei Killua]

Originally Posted by Kayess

Heaven forbid we acknowledge the royal asshole sasuke is being. We all know his backstory. We all know that it is rough to lose those you love... but the thing is... people can and HAVE dealt with similiar... and no where in the same way as him. He is of weak character. Get over it.

I'd be willing to bet no one you know or no one that any of the people you know knows of a single person whose brother massacred his entire family, immediate and extended, and somehow forced the young child of 5 to rewatch it over and over and over again as his closest people he loves are murdered. Hell, I'd be willing to bet that nobody in this world has experienced such a thing, because we live in the real world, where the realism and horror of the mangekyou sharingan does not exist.

You seem to say that what Sasuke went through is no big deal, and that hey, y'know, it's 'rough' but lots of people have toughed it out at the mature age of adolescence--that one time in our lives we are known to be clear-thinking, right?

To put it simply, Sasuke was tortured at a young age in a horrific way, and he lost all of those dear to him to another one who was dear to him. He was forced to watch the events of the most horrific night in his lifetime over and over again. Moreover, he is being trained in a ninja society--one that trains children such as Kakashi at the age of 4 or 5 to kill. One doesn't have to be weak to be totally messed up by all of this, and moreover, given the callousness to life of a ninja society, it's not totally unexpected for someone who already has severe mental disturbances to go homocidal.

[Kayess]

Originally Posted by Genei Killua

I'd be willing to bet no one you know or no one that any of the people you know knows of a single person whose brother massacred his entire family, immediate and extended, and somehow forced the young child of 5 to rewatch it over and over and over again as his closest people he loves are murdered. Hell, I'd be willing to bet that nobody in this world has experienced such a thing, because we live in the real world, where the realism and horror of the mangekyou sharingan does not exist.

You seem to say that what Sasuke went through is no big deal, and that hey, y'know, it's 'rough' but lots of people have toughed it out at the mature age of adolescence--that one time in our lives we are known to be clear-thinking, right?

To put it simply, Sasuke was tortured at a young age in a horrific way, and he lost all of those dear to him to another one who was dear to him. He was forced to watch the events of the most horrific night in his lifetime over and over again. Moreover, he is being trained in a ninja society--one that trains children such as Kakashi at the age of 4 or 5 to kill. One doesn't have to be weak to be totally messed up by all of this, and moreover, given the callousness to life of a ninja society, it's not totally unexpected for someone who already has severe mental disturbances to go homocidal.

Congratulations! You are the dumbest person I have heard this month. I'd give you a reward... but... you know... it wouldn't be worth it.


STOP JUSTIFYING DEVIANT BEHAVIOUR! People like you are the reason why so many dangerous people walk the streets. That is the biggest bullshit I have ever heard in my life.... that because of their past it is acceptable that they are like this. There is this thing called "FREE WILL"... I did have many serious family issues when I was young...namely serious abuse... but guess what?! I was not some pansy who allows it to twist me. I grew up... thats right "GREW UP"... and I know that someone else's actions, while they may be both mentally and physically hurtful, cannot change me without my consent. I do not consent it to happen.

Sasuke is a coward. Too afraid to make his own life. He allows his brother to dictate his life.

Spoiler:

He thinks that since he did not follow Itachi's suggestion of getting the mangekyou sharingan that he is not being controlled by his brother, but he is! His brother basically set out Sasuke's life. Sasuke is to be the avenger... grow strong... and ultimately fight itachi.... That is what itachi set out for him. And that is exactly the path sasuke is following... the main difference is Itachi thought Sasuke would be a MAN and obtain his power the natural way, through training... not by using some seal and running off to Oro

[Ponko]

I think people do recognize that Sasuke has had a difficult life and that he is lashing out at his past, but that does not mean that everyone has to forgive him for what he has done. The minute he turned his back on his village and his friends, he became no better than his brother. He basically announced to the world that his life, his goals, and his mission was more important than anything else. If people die trying to get him back, if his village is put in danger and thousands of people are killed when Orochimaru waltzes in with a new more powerful body, it doesn't matter to Sasuke as long as he gets his revenge.

I can certainly understand why Sasuke feels this way. Many people would in his situation, but that does not mean I have to like it. For me, Sasuke hit his low point in Chapter 218 with the way he treated his fellow leaf who went after them. They risked their lives to save him, and he treats them like trash. They mean nothing in the Sasuke universe, so it is okay for them to suffer for him, and to even die, because who cares what happens to people who can offer him nothing for his revenge?

Thankfully Sasuke does gain back some respect later, but people are still going to dislike him, and it is not unjustified. A person's past can explain who they are, but the final decisions in their lives are still theirs to make, otherwise everyone would react exactly the same. Sasuke chose to hurt all the people who wanted to help him, and there is going to be backlash from fans of the show who think it was a cruel thing to do.

[nh1]

The guy above me put it: P E R F E C T

I don't even have to say anything

[DangerousOne]

Originally Posted by Genei Killua

I'd be willing to bet no one you know or no one that any of the people you know knows of a single person whose brother massacred his entire family, immediate and extended, and somehow forced the young child of 5 to rewatch it over and over and over again as his closest people he loves are murdered. Hell, I'd be willing to bet that nobody in this world has experienced such a thing, because we live in the real world, where the realism and horror of the mangekyou sharingan does not exist.

You seem to say that what Sasuke went through is no big deal, and that hey, y'know, it's 'rough' but lots of people have toughed it out at the mature age of adolescence--that one time in our lives we are known to be clear-thinking, right?

To put it simply, Sasuke was tortured at a young age in a horrific way, and he lost all of those dear to him to another one who was dear to him. He was forced to watch the events of the most horrific night in his lifetime over and over again. Moreover, he is being trained in a ninja society--one that trains children such as Kakashi at the age of 4 or 5 to kill. One doesn't have to be weak to be totally messed up by all of this, and moreover, given the callousness to life of a ninja society, it's not totally unexpected for someone who already has severe mental disturbances to go homocidal.

Id also be willing to bet that none here can control chakra to create Jutsu's and none are ninja's who go round killing people.



"Naruto had a equally sad past as Sasuke does, and you dont see him acting like an ass" or a quote from earlier today "Kakashi has everyone he's ever loved murdered too and he's not an angsty whiner"

The comparing thing really gets old and is irritating. Everyone has different backgrounds and different situations that are interpreted differently by different personalities and minds. Hence the key word that I used 50 times there is "Different." You never know how someone will deal with a tramatic event, its why everyone has completely different reactions upon dealing with loss, pain, or any kind of trama. No reaction is more right or wrong than the other. How someone copes with the pain is really a mixture of personality, past experiences, beliefs and values, etc. Dont compare."

Comparison is how you identify a person...by comparing him to other people. The story of the hero & the corward, both are put in the same situation. Its just what the hero does & what the coward doesnt do that makes one a hero whilst the other a coward. I guess it would be fair to say to the coward, "everyone are different and the coward just interpreted the problem differently"...sure you can say that but that doesnt change the fact that hes a coward. Its the same for Sasuke, sure you can say he deals with his problem differently but that doesnt change the fact that it makes him a whiny & arrogant character.

[Kayess]

Originally Posted by nh1

The guy above me put it P E R F E C T
We understand why he does it, but that still doesn't justify anything.

Exactly Sasuke needs to grow up and stop being such a pansy!

I know if I was part of the Naruto universe.. and had the power to do so... I would personally just hunt down sasuke and kill him for how big of a moron he is.

The world does not need sadistic bastards like him... but then again.. it also doesn't need people hunting down those bastards for righteousness... hmm.. I guess I will just have to take idiocy.

[Mcdougal]

Originally Posted by DangerousOne

Comparison is how you identify a person...by comparing him to other people. The story of the hero & the corward, both are put in the same situation. Its just what the hero does & what the coward doesnt do that makes one a hero whilst the other a coward. I guess it would be fair to say to the coward, "everyone are different and the coward just interpreted the problem differently"...sure you can say that but that doesnt change the fact that hes a coward. Its the same for Sasuke, sure you can say he deals with his problem differently but that doesnt change the fact that it makes him a whiny & arrogant character.

Just how the hell is Sasuke a coward? The guy has a valid point, you can't compare the characters like that because what they went through is all different.
If Naruto had two loving parents and a whole bunch of cousins and aunts and his brother slaughtered everyone then sure, the comparison would be valid. But Naruto's troubled childhood is different, it's like comparing apples and oranges.

But hey, if you want to compare, lets compare Sasuke to Gaara. They arn't that different. Its just that Sasuke's hate is limited to one person while Gaara's encompasses everyone. And Naruto himself points out that he may very well have become like gaara had it not been for his "precious people". Hell, he even said that if someone dared to lay a hand on his loved ones...HE'D KILL THEM. What do you think he would have done if say, Sasuke, somehow got the mangekyo, killed Iruka, Kakashi and Sakura, dumped their bloody corpses in Narutos apartment, and when Naruto comes in, he gets mange'd and is forced to watch the whole thing happen again and again for three days? I hardly think he'd "get over it", or "stop whining about it".
What would he had done? What's that, you say? He would have hunted down Sasuke and tried to kill him? *SHOCKED GASP*. Well you could have knocked me over with a feather...
And i am willing to bet a pretty penny that Kakashi's "loved ones" where causalties of war. That can't really be compared to Sasukes loss either. Not by a longshot.

Spoiler:

As for his betrayal. Kakashi openly told Sasuke to stop seeking revenge. No, not told, Ordered him. What he did, was to say to Sasuke to deny his entire reason for being alive, to deny the very reason he got up in the morning, the very reason he stayed alive. So, he is presented with a choice. He could stay, and forget about Itachi, or he could continue his persuit of revenge. It wasn't just a quick, easy and cheap fix for power (which by the way, was neither easy, nor cheap), it was his whole reason for living that was on the line. And until the sound 4 came in and whupped him, he actually considered it giving it up.

The thing is that many people are just looking for an excuse to hate Sasuke. They hated sasuke before he left too, now they just have a valid excuse to do so. I don't have a problem if people hate Sasuke for the recent events, or if they just dislike his style. What i DO have a problem with is when people have to invent reasons to justify their hate against him

[Srin Tuar]

Spoiler:

Hrm, will you still feel this way when sasuke starts killing konoha shinobi for his traning? What about when he rounds up 100 innocent people to sacrifice to manda?
Would he still be just a misunderstood kid with a troubled history? At which point does he become a bad-guy in your book?

IMO, he changed from a really anoying whiney good guy, to a moderately interesting villain. There's no easy way he can redeem himself after willingly serving orochimaru. should he choose to do so. ( If hes going to disobey Orochimaru might as well lock him in a cage for three years, so he probably will )

Based on foreshadowing, I'd say its probably true that noone but orochimaru can train sasuke to his full potential. He would still have been a better human being if he had chosen loyalty over power and revenge though.

[Akichan]

Yeah, I've got to say I've lost a lot of respect for Sasuke in terms of what he's done. Even if we look at episode 108, when Kakashi gives him a talking to about not using the Chidori against comerades and he considers it. I was just thinking, isn't it a good thing Naruto's not driven by revenge? The whole village would be in shambles. That'd be the end of Konoha if he succeeded.

But in Sasuke's case, he's gone and let Itachi control his life. The thing that causes me not to respect him is that this was LAID OUT IN FRONT OF HIM and he made the choice to continue. That's right, a lucid CHOICE. He's choosing to turn his back on Konoha and face Itachi, and in doing so is not any better then Itachi. See for me to rant it's for those who say Sasuke is just fine and normal. He's not. (Manga spoilers ahead for one of the most recent chapters...230-something)

Spoiler:

Not only that he nearly killed Naruto, and just because he didn't in the end it DOESN'T mean he's redeemable. He tried to kill his best friend. What is wrong with this picture? Oh and because he had mercy, that makes him a good guy? I don't think so! It makes him an asshole anyway.

Sasuke has got problems. Yeah, he has had a bad past, so have many other characters in Naruto, but if the characters, all they did was go around getting revenge, as I said Konoha wouldn't exist and probably a couple of other villages while we're at it. Sasuke is weak in letting Itachi rule his life. His jutsus are by no means weak, as we've seen, and he's physically strong, but he's made the wrong choice and is pretty much now a missing nin and an enemy of the Leaf. Oh yeah, he's NOTHING like Itachi. /sarcasm

He was a character sitting on the fence between a good character and a bad character and he jumped off on the wrong side, and that was his choice, regardless of the reasons behind it. You think that if he turns around and attacks Konoha with Orochimaru, they're going to care about the reasons behind it? Absolutely not. They'll care about stopping, even killing him.


Akichan

[neodrag38]

Originally Posted by Akichan

Yeah, I've got to say I've lost a lot of respect for Sasuke in terms of what he's done. Even if we look at episode 108, when Kakashi gives him a talking to about not using the Chidori against comerades and he considers it. I was just thinking, isn't it a good thing Naruto's not driven by revenge? The whole village would be in shambles. That'd be the end of Konoha if he succeeded.

But in Sasuke's case, he's gone and let Itachi control his life. The thing that causes me not to respect him is that this was LAID OUT IN FRONT OF HIM and he made the choice to continue. That's right, a lucid CHOICE. He's choosing to turn his back on Konoha and face Itachi, and in doing so is not any better then Itachi. See for me to rant it's for those who say Sasuke is just fine and normal. He's not. (Manga spoilers ahead for one of the most recent chapters...230-something)

Spoiler:

Not only that he nearly killed Naruto, and just because he didn't in the end it DOESN'T mean he's redeemable. He tried to kill his best friend. What is wrong with this picture? Oh and because he had mercy, that makes him a good guy? I don't think so! It makes him an asshole anyway.

Sasuke has got problems. Yeah, he has had a bad past, so have many other characters in Naruto, but if the characters, all they did was go around getting revenge, as I said Konoha wouldn't exist and probably a couple of other villages while we're at it. Sasuke is weak in letting Itachi rule his life. His jutsus are by no means weak, as we've seen, and he's physically strong, but he's made the wrong choice and is pretty much now a missing nin and an enemy of the Leaf. Oh yeah, he's NOTHING like Itachi. /sarcasm

He was a character sitting on the fence between a good character and a bad character and he jumped off on the wrong side, and that was his choice, regardless of the reasons behind it. You think that if he turns around and attacks Konoha with Orochimaru, they're going to care about the reasons behind it? Absolutely not. They'll care about stopping, even killing him.


Akichan

I of course agree completely with this statement.

Also, I believe that the comparison between Sasuke and Naruto's past is based solely on who has the least amount reasons to stay in Konoha based on past treatment upon said individuals by the residents of Konoha. The fact is that Naruto has more of a reason to leave Konoha since the majority of the population would rather have him gone or just plain dead while Sasuke is given every single possible form of will and support based solely on him being a Uchiha. The fact is that Naruto is pretty much treated like dirt yet still tries to make a change in his situation instead of simply running away like any other person would while Sasuke simply left Konoha simply to just gain power. Even though Sasuke has had the horrible past event in his life, he at least was given many chances to be accepted by those in Konoha who had sympathy for him and thought highly of him while Naruto is basically in the situation of always being thought of as constant threat to every other living thing in existence with this leading to the possible future situation of divided opinions on the idea of making Naruto Hokage.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Kayess

Exactly Sasuke needs to grow up and stop being such a pansy!

I know if I was part of the Naruto universe.. and had the power to do so... I would personally just hunt down sasuke and kill him for how big of a moron he is.

The world does not need sadistic bastards like him... but then again.. it also doesn't need people hunting down those bastards for righteousness... hmm.. I guess I will just have to take idiocy.

I think Kishimoto has done a great job portraying the fact that the world creates people like Sasuke. Both Sasuke and Gaara are perfectly rational characters for the world they exist in. They are ninja, trained to kill from an early age and have experienced serious psychological trama that influences their desicions. Do you see how different Gaara was at age 6 even though he had a rough childhood even then, yet got pushed over the edge? And he was lucky to have sibling companions like Temari and Kankuro who however wicked they may have been actually cared for him. Sasuke lost all of that. He's been tortured physically and psychologically (the worst kind) from an early age and even though he's grown a little since then he is still only 12 years old.

He is a tragic character who is the perfect vessel for Orochimaru's kind of manipulation, taking the weak and abandoned and making them strong and evil. I'm not saying you have to like him or respect him as a character but to consider him low life scum just becuase he's making poor desicions is stretching it and not being sympathetic to his understandable situation. I agree with the person who said Sasuke, despite his horrible upbringing still ultimately has the power to make desicions for himself.

I was disgusted by what he said about his leaf comrades and it was rather pathetic that even after learning why Orochimaru wanted his body he was still dead set on seeking that same path to power, no matter the consequences. But despite all that he still showed reminence of a good heart by thanking Sakura and sparing Naruto, though he is still being manipulated by his brother and Orochimaru like a puppet on a string. His hands aren't red with blood yet. He hasn't raped or murdered anyone yet so he is still a redeemable character. After this 3 year time jump we'll see Sasuke's true nature and if he will ever be able to com back into the light (more than likely he will).

I think its fair to say Sasuke is a whiny little bitch that is too obessed with how hard his life has been and should focus more on how he can salvage a meaningful existence the way Kakashi did. He should listen to people a bit more rather than blindly follow the darkside. Its even understandable to respect Sasuke a bit less for taking the devil's fruit rather than get real strength. However the topic starter was well justified in saying that people are being too judgemental of this character. He still has a redeemable quality to him the same as Gaara and Neji. Sasuke is being absorbed by darkness and yet the door to the light hasn't closed.He isn't in the Orochimaru club of unforgivable villains yet. He deserves atleast some slack.

[Deth moad ue]

Originally Posted by Vinac

Okay so this rant has been present in the back of my mind for quite some time but I never got around to actually writing it. I dont post much on these boards mostly because I always seem to forget my password and never want to go through the trouble of emailing it to myself and getting a new one. (Im lazy)...But I do read the boards on a relatively frequent basis, and I see alot of the same comments pertaining to Sasuke, and I finally decided to sit down and write my rant. Im sure itll end up rather long, sooo I apologize in advance.


"Sasuke is such an arrogant asshole"

I can understand how he gives off that impression...but in reality, if you look deeper, he's really suffering from a huge inferiority complex. He's always lived under his brothers shadow... "Itachi was the best at everything, Itachi did this at age 12, Itachi was such a prodigy. Why arent you more like Itachi?" Sasuke developed a inferiority complex at a really young age that just carried over into the later years and now has been severely retouched upon his meeting with his brother once again. He'd worked the last 5 years to get stronger, in the hopes of succeeding his brother...only to realize that the differences in power were still enormous. And to rub more salt in that wound, to find out that Itachi was there for NARUTO, made the matter worse due to their constant rivialry. He awakens from the comatose sleep (or whatever) he was in after his eventful fight with his brother in a pyschological state that would take YEARS of modern psychological therapy to work out. In the time that hes been unconscious, Naruto has gotten even stronger, which further worses the situation. Sasuke's mindset is such a whirl of confusion and vunerablity that of course hes going to make irrational decisions and lash out without really thinking things through logically. How could he? Hes angry, confused and hurt, he doesnt know what he should be doing or what he should be thinking...so his actions are going to be erratic. Its the same as with anyone who suffers some form of trama, especially a strong emotional trama. You see it all the time in our society now, kids who had some sort of trama in their lives often act in erratic, delinquent ways because their mindset isnt working in a rational manner. You have to cut Sasuke some slack, anyone who has gone through the events hes been through shouldnt be expected to just wake up and be mentally unscathed. Hes been healed physically, but not emotionally. So with that stated, those who hate on him for 'betraying' his friends and village should try to understand things a little better from his point of view. Im not saying that his actions are justified, but some understanding should be given since hes not exactly in the most psychologically sound state right now.



"He needs to quit whining about his past" or "He needs to get over his obsession with revenge"

Look at what Sasuke experienced at the age of 8. Any young child that experiences what Sasuke went through at that age would also grow up to be slightly skewed. Its hard enough to lose one loved one, but to have everyone remotely related to you cruelly slaughtered is enough to make anyone tramatized for life. And to add to that, to have those murders be performed by your idolized older brother, and then to be ridiculed for being too weak to be killed by that same brother, and THEN to be further submitted to the torment of being forced to rewatch those murders again...

I think hes adjusted quite well considering the circumstances he went through 5 years ago. His underlying purpose for becoming strong is revenge, yes, but is that really such a bad thing? To avenge his clans murders, to put rest to his past and move on with his life. I see so many comments pertaining to "Once Sasuke kills Itachi he will have no more purpose to his life." I disagree because I believe that until Sasuke kills Itachi, he will be unable to move on, unable to close that door to his past. Itachi's death will lend him the closure he needs. So yes, hes obsessive with this goal, and the realization that he is so far away from it is quite heartbreaking. But he can not just "get over it," as if it were something that easy. Everything Sasuke has become has been shaped by that event, and emotionally he is unable to adjust to normal life until the task of killing his brother is taken care of. Also keep in mind that Sasuke is very cleverly being manipulated by Itachi. Itachi fascinates me in so many ways that I wont mention here to save space, but his hold on Sasuke is a huge part in Sasukes erratic mindset...Itachi is easily able to drive Sasuke to do as he pleases with just a few easy words.



"Naruto had a equally sad past as Sasuke does, and you dont see him acting like an ass" or a quote from earlier today "Kakashi has everyone he's ever loved murdered too and he's not an angsty whiner"

The comparing thing really gets old and is irritating. Everyone has different backgrounds and different situations that are interpreted differently by different personalities and minds. Hence the key word that I used 50 times there is "Different." You never know how someone will deal with a tramatic event, its why everyone has completely different reactions upon dealing with loss, pain, or any kind of trama. No reaction is more right or wrong than the other. How someone copes with the pain is really a mixture of personality, past experiences, beliefs and values, etc. Dont compare.


It really all boils down to cutting Sasuke some slack. In todays society, a kid in his mental condition who went throught those childhood events would have years of therapy in order to get him on the road to recovery...And Im sure that people would have alot more sympathy than I see around here. Im not trying to get anyone to become little Sasuke fans or anything, but the insults seem out of line. Poor Sasuke =( But Im tired of writing, so Ill just go ahead and post this and be done with it. Its sort of long, so nobody will probably read it anyway. =)

Bravo!

I agree on all points. Adolescents aren't the most rational thinkers anyway, but for this amount of burder to exist, it's a wonder Sasuke's not worse than he is.

At 21, I can vividly recall things from when i was 5 years old and younger, and can trace certain tendencies, viewpoints, and behaviors to things that happened in my formative years. It's the things that happened in the past that make us who we are.

As far as kakashi, we don't know how old he was when he lost his loved ones. Maybe he was older than 8 years old and better equipped to deal with it.

Naruto?? He never had anyone to begin with. To have everything ripped away from is painful. Naruto never knew what he was missing til Sakura, Sasuke, and Kakashi.

Once again, Vinac, well done!

[Tron Bonne]

People, you are all very sad, cruel and insentive. I 'm sorry, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for Naruto's past. People treated him like an outcast, but he never did anything to change this, he could only feel sorry for himself. He was so blinded by his self pity to see that there were people who cared about him. It wasn't until Iruka slapped some sence into him that he started to see how there were people who cared and loved him. He always did have someone, he just never could see this, it took Iruka nearing dying protecting him to see what he had. No one can say he was a little kid all alone, because so was Sasuke. What Sasuke had to deal with, all by himself, no body, adult or child should have to deal with alone. Naruto was saved, he didn't saved himself.

[daflecta]

Originally Posted by Vinac

Sasuke's mindset is such a whirl of confusion and vunerablity that of course hes going to make irrational decisions and lash out without really thinking things through logically. How could he? Hes angry, confused and hurt, he doesnt know what he should be doing or what he should be thinking...so his actions are going to be erratic

hmmmm...... sounds like puberty to me

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Tron Bonne

People, you are all very sad, cruel and insentive. I 'm sorry, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for Naruto's past. People treated him like an outcast, but he never did anything to change this, he could only feel sorry for himself. He was so blinded by his self pity to see that there were people who cared about him. It wasn't until Iruka slapped some sence into him that he started to see how there were people who cared and loved him. He always did have someone, he just never could see this, it took Iruka nearing dying protecting him to see what he had. No one can say he was a little kid all alone, because so was Sasuke. What Sasuke had to deal with, all by himself, no body, adult or child should have to deal with alone. Naruto was saved, he didn't saved himself.

I agree with what you are saying about everything except Naruto's past not deserving sympathy. Can you imagine everyone, everyone you know hating you or thinking lowly of you since the day you were born? Having no clue why every other glance at you is done with cold eyes? Sure Iruka tried to be nice to Naruto. Hinata had a secret crush on him. But at best the children didn't hate him, the majority just didn't like him and never played with him. He tried to be a class clown as a defense mechanism and the laughter was the closet thing he got to frienship until after graduation. Sasuke on the other hand was praised and well like which at best was bitter sweet because the people who he really cared for and desired praise from were dead, so its understandable for Sasuke to walk around being oogled by girls and admired by boys yet not give a damn. But Naruto too lived a sad an hurtful existence. Like Kakashi said he probably cried himself to sleep everytime he went to the playground and never made a friend. He probably laughed fake laughs until his lungs were to exhausted and had to create his own fun. I wouldn't want either one of these lonely lives but they both deserve some sympathy. You are anyone else wouldn't want Naruto or Sasuke's childhood.

[Tron Bonne]

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

I agree with what you are saying about everything except Naruto's past not deserving sympathy. Can you imagine everyone, everyone you know hating you or thinking lowly of you since the day you were born? Having no clue why every other glance at you is done with cold eyes? Sure Iruka tried to be nice to Naruto. Hinata had a secret crush on him. But at best the children didn't hate him, the majority just didn't like him and never played with him. He tried to be a class clown as a defense mechanism and the laughter was the closet thing he got to frienship until after graduation. Sasuke on the other hand was praised and well like which at best was bitter sweet because the people who he really cared for and desired praise from were dead, so its understandable for Sasuke to walk around being oogled by girls and admired by boys yet not give a damn. But Naruto too lived a sad an hurtful existence. Like Kakashi said he probably cried himself to sleep everytime he went to the playground and never made a friend. He probably laughed fake laughs until his lungs were to exhausted and had to create his own fun. I wouldn't want either one of these lonely lives but they both deserve some sympathy. You are anyone else wouldn't want Naruto or Sasuke's childhood.

I said I have a hard time, not that I can't. Naruto's past is sad, but at least it only would affect me. I can bear that kind of pain, but to have to watch my loved ones be killed cold bloodedly, that I could not live with. I can't see how you can compare the two myself, it hurts to lose someone, it hurts far more than to have to suffer yourself, at least for me. I would rather be alone forever than watch a loved one die, it's selfish to think otherwise. Naruto could have done something to save himself, he chose not to, he chose the easy way. Sasuke had no way to stop what happened, he couldn't have beat Itachi, he was a victem by force not by choice. There is the difference between the two.

[nh1]

Originally Posted by Tron Bonne

He was so blinded by his self pity to see that there were people who cared about him.

Who were we talking about again?

I would rather be alone forever than watch a loved one die, it's selfish to think otherwise.

If you're only affected by the death of your loved ones and not the deaths of anyone, then you're just as selfish. These people are your loved ones because they are close to you.
Like it has been said before, we understand Sasuke's actions, but we don't have to like him for it.

[Mcdougal]

In regards to Neodrags post.

Spoiler:

While Naruto did indeed have a bigger reason to leave the town, he also had an even bigger one to stay. It's the only home he has. This is where the few people in the world that actually give a rats ass about him live. He couldn't possibly throw that away. For Sasuke however, it's different. He doesn't have a "home". His home was destroyed when he was a kid, and so where the people he loved. Since then, Konoha's only function was to train him to help him get the job done, and nothing more. He didn't get close to anyone because he was afraid it would distract him from his quest to kill Itachi, and he was right too. The minute he became close to Sakura and Naruto, his ambitions where comprimised.

I think that many people are missing the fact that it wasn't only power that made Sasuke leave, it was also the need to keep his quest alive. He came to a fork in the road. He could either continue to stay, and allow his hate and revenge to fade into the background, sacrificing his entire reason for living until this point, or he could leave, nourish the anger and hate and keep on going until either of the Uchihas where dead. His choice was, regrettably, but not suprisingly, the second one.

I think that's what makes Sasuke one of the more interesting characters in the show. He's flawed, he's imperfect. He's tragic. Love him or hate him, you can't deny that he is one of the more interesting characters in the show.